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CyReN

Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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Hey guys. We need to be super careful here and the words we use. It's not a spawn trap anymore. That's no longer PC. Its now called a map positioning augmented single spawn point cluster fuck.

 

Or as I like to say.

MPASSPCF.

 

Not to be confused with

GVGRAL.

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The depth that your reasoning is diving to is so far past the point of applicability that it doesn't even matter if what you're saying is true (which it isn't outside of an extremely controlled bubble of unlikelihood) because strongholds 98% of the time is going to act exactly as we described it.

 

For the record with the proper map and stronghold placement it actually could be "pretty okay". Someone would just have to make it.

 

I literally play this game every night and we do that to full teams of 4 almost every time we play it. Strongholds on Eden, Plaza, and Rig are my team's 3 best gametypes and we play all three of them the way I described. We push Yard on Plaza and force Blue spawns (again this is what 90% of teams are doing), we push Trip caps on every SH map (Rig being the least frequent just because of how difficult it is to clear out BR base before players start spawning behind you). If anyone is using extremely controlled conditions in their points it is you.

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What, Cortana in Halo 3 didn't do a good job creating a highly claustrophobic and directionless atmosphere for you?

No? How would that level have been confusing? It was super easy to follow.

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I'm done trying.  H5 has irked me for the last time.  MCC it is from here on out. 

 

Dude.... please elaborate on your profile pic... I must know what you know about it

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No, you're right. Strongholds don't influence spawns, but players do. Explain to me how you capture a stronghold without a player standing in it. You act like owning a stronghold still means a team can spawn near it because you don't HAVE to stand in it, but if you're not standing in it you're standing near it guarding it which is the same damn thing.

 

 

And if you're NOT standing near it, then the other team will spawn there and capture the stronghold. So what's your point? Strongholds captured might as well represent where your team is on the map. Am I right?

Strongholds captured represent the objectives that a team has secured. That's it. After capping it They MIGHT stand in it or near it. But they also MIGHT die or go pick up weapons/power ups or help a teamate or push for a trip cap.

 

Then you have to consider the state of the opposing team. If they all up and outside of your desired trap when you cap your second zone, then you dont have a trap. If some die, but you arent blocking the right spawns when they respawn, then you dont have a trap.

 

The exact conditions neccisary for having a spawn trap, arent automatically achieved simply by capping two points.

 

You act like standing in or near a stronghold are the ONLY two states a player is in during a match. You can't just gloss over the specific timing, numbers, and positioning required to setup an ACTUAL spawn trap.

 

Getting a 2 cap doesnt automatically award a spawn trap in any sense.

 

Players dont stand IN it longer than they have to inorder to take it. And typically, if you are standing in it, then you arent pressuring spawns (which is a component of spawn trapping.) If your entire team is standing in or near their two strongholds, the enemy will spawn away from those two SHs, but won't be under any pressure from spawn. They aren't trapped. They can push out without consequence.

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I literally play this game every night and we do that to full teams of 4 almost every time we play it. Strongholds on Eden, Plaza, and Rig are my team's 3 best gametypes and we play all three of them the way I described. We push Yard on Plaza and force Blue spawns (again this is what 90% of teams are doing), we push Trip caps on every SH map (Rig being the least frequent just because of how difficult it is to clear out BR base before players start spawning behind you). If anyone is using extremely controlled conditions in their points it is you.

If were going to use anecdotal evidence I'll just dig up a video of any pro team on Rig staring at the other team as they spawn BR base the entire game.

 

Strongholds captured represent the objectives that a team has secured. That's it. After capping it They MIGHT stand in it or near it. But they also MIGHT die or go pick up weapons/power ups or help a teamate or push for a trip cap.

 

Then you have to consider the state of the opposing team. If they all up and outside of your desired trap when you cap your second zone, then you dont have a trap. If some die, but you arent blocking the right spawns when they respawn, then you dont have a trap.

 

The exact conditions neccisary for having a spawn trap, arent automatically achieved simply by capping two points.

 

You act like standing in or near a stronghold are the ONLY two states a player is in during a match. You can't just gloss over the specific timing, numbers, and positioning required to setup an ACTUAL spawn trap.

 

Getting a 2 cap doesnt automatically award a spawn trap in any sense.

 

Players dont stand IN it longer than they have to inorder to take it. And typically, if you are standing in it, then you arent pressuring spawns (which is a component of spawn trapping.) If your entire team is standing in or near their two strongholds, the enemy will spawn away from those two SHs, but won't be under any pressure from spawn. They aren't trapped. They can push out without consequence.

Okay honestly this post is just coming off as pure nonsense to me.

 

Bottom line, you need to walk in a stronghold to capture it. If you stand in the vicinity of it to guard it- great. You're still influencing spawns. If you leave for whatever reason, chances are people will start spawning there and capture it. This is such a ridiculous idea to refute, that players aren't necessarily found near their strongholds. Okay, show me a game were a team has Nest and Basement captured while they sit in BR tower. That is such a ridiculous idea.

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If were going to use anecdotal evidence I'll just dig up a video of any pro team on Rig staring at the other team as they spawn BR base the entire game.

It might be harder to find than you think. Your best bet would be the oldest H5 tournament you can find.

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I think my new pet peeve is the spotting system for CTF. The flag carrier doesn't really deserve to have his position revealed for the entire enemy team just because only one was aware enough to shoot him in the back. While flag juggling does negate this, the information is way too valuable to be so easily handed.

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If were going to use anecdotal evidence I'll just dig up a video of any pro team on Rig staring at the other team as they spawn BR base the entire game.

 

 

Okay honestly this post is just coming off as pure nonsense to me.

 

Bottom line, you need to walk in a stronghold to capture it. If you stand in the vicinity of it to guard it- great. You're still influencing spawns. If you leave for whatever reason, chances are people will start spawning there and capture it. This is such a ridiculous idea to refute, that players aren't necessarily found near their strongholds. Okay, show me a game were a team has Nest and Basement captured while they sit in BR tower. That is such a ridiculous idea.

For every pro game that plays that way you can get a dozen that dont.

 

Yes basement + nest is the ideal set up, but capping those two doesnt automatically put you in position to effectively keep a team in BR.

 

Again every gametype has ideal setups. Strongholds isnt unique in that regard.

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It might be harder to find than you think. Your best bet would be the oldest H5 tournament you can find.

Okay I'll look for *any game with a 2 stronghold spawn trap

 

For every pro game that plays that way you can get a dozen that dont.

 

Yes basement + nest is the ideal set up, but capping those two doesnt automatically put you in position to effectively keep a team in BR.

 

Again every gametype has ideal setups. Strongholds isnt unique in that regard.

Once again. The fact that we AGREE that it's the ideal setup and strategy is all the matters. If a team isn't skilled enough to execute it doesn't mean the gametype doesn't revolve around it and mimic slayer. It just means they personally can't do it. If a pro team was set up in snipe tower and got breached (which happened just about every game) that doesn't mean snipe tower isn't the best setup and completely 1 dimensional. It just means they're not perfect.

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The way the map flows (in an ideal scenario) in SH and TS is similar. You force the team to spawn in one corner, you choke their spawn by killing the first 1 or 2 players to push out, then you use your numbers advantage to kill the other two. This forces them to spawn in the opposite corner and you rinse-repeat.

 

In practice they flow differently due to 2 factors:

 

1. If you are the team that just collapsed, provided you don't have control of the SH you just slayed around, you are delayed while you cap it giving the down team a chance to get into better positions.

 

2. In Slayer, the incentive for the down team to push out of those spawns is much lower. It's in their best interest to crouch and wait for a pick before attempting to gain control. This is why I think Slayer compares unfavorably to SH in 4v4.

 

Even if you were to convince 343 that Slayer and Strongholds are redundant and one should be removed from competitive play, and they then asked pro players which one should be removed. 99% of pro players would say Slayer. And they would be right.

 

I agree with everything here. I don't think the argument was ever that SH and Slayer are identical, just very similar to the point of redundancy. I think it's pretty fair to say that SH is the superior option in H5 (on Eden, for example), but then again, the last game that had Slayer settings worth using in competitive play was probably CE. Why it is played 3 times per Bo7 in this game is a fucking mystery to me.

 

​I would also like to request that Empire Strongholds and all evidence of its existence be destroyed.

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Dude.... please elaborate on your profile pic... I must know what you know about it

From a John Wayne movie. 

I happen to share the name of the character in the movie. 

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I'm actually surprised people still get on Halo 5 every night. As much as I love Halo, Halo 4 and 5 just about killed my desire to continue playing. There are so many better games out there now. 

 

Oddball & KoTH are the greatest Halo gametypes of all time btw. 

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Lest we never forget our brethren who perished defending the stronghold in the Great Stronghold Beyond Debate of 2017.

That was a great debate btw.  :kappa:

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Really curious to see how well Warpath would play in its optimal settings compared to KoTH. A moving hill that lets you earn points based on how many people stand in it (uncontested obviously) while encouraging this sort of map cycling that requires you to actively re-position and create new set ups to win the game? Sounds loads better IMHO.

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Peak male vitality.

 

A counter of how many bitches he gets in that armour 

 

xYEuNgo.png

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