Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

[valaea]

Seriously.

 

I've never seen a forum where discussions devolve into pointless battles over semantics so quickly.

 

People who like H5, why do you like it? Bonus points if you can come up with something that doesn't mention nostalgia, changing you mindset, trying to improve, getting over things, or saying "well, it's not too bad". What mechanics do you actually like and why.

 

 

1. Ground pound is a legitimately interesting/fun addition to gameplay (there's a good balance of risk vs. reward and it's satisfying to use correctly)

2. Pistol starts + the crispiness of crouch strafing make 1v1 battles in H5 easily the best of any Halo game since H1. When I'm out-shot in a 1v1 pistol battle I ain't even mad

3. While it took me a while to come around to the idea, the quickness and flow of sprint + clamber + slide + thruster have become addictive.  Going back to H3 feels like I'm literally floating underwater, and even though I love H1 the movement just feels so slow/awkward in comparison.  Using all of these abilities effectively in a really good Fathom CTF or Truth CTF game is the most fun I've had playing Halo in years.    

4. Warzone is not without flaws but is also very, very fun 

 

 

I've played traditional Halo games for a decade and honestly like the freshness of the new abilities and sandbox.  I realize this is sacrilege for TB, and obviously player population isn't doing too well, but, whatever.  I'm more than a little tired of playing Team BRs since 2005.  The H5 sandbox is varied and interesting, the maps are pretty good (though not perfect), and 343 have toned down the absurdity of armor abilities in Reach (armor lock / jetpack) and H4 (x-ray vision etc.); I have zero problem with the new abilities.  I mean, I'd prefer faster movement speed rather than sprint, but it's not anything I'm losing sleep over.  

[cookies4you]

Because their high opinion of Halo 5 reinforces 343's design choices and ruins my enjoyment of the series. This is assuming I've actually seen a well-formulated positive opinion of Halo 5, which I haven't. All I ever see is  "I like it."

 

To anyone who comes here and complains that all they ever see are negative opinions on here, how about you give us your positive opinion so we can start a dialogue. I'm not terribly interested in debating "well some of us like Halo 5." If you want to have discussions, then give us something to discuss.

How the hell is it okay to harass other people for their opinions? Did you even read my comment? Or is that what you honestly believe?

[BigShow36]

You are absolutely right. I apologize if I came across as wanting anyone else to stop expressing their opinions. I understand that I need to be able to defend my opinion, especially when it is against the common opinion. The truth is I don't have an in-depth analysis on why I enjoy the game. The main reasons I play were already deemed as insufficient so I guess I don't have much more to add. I don't know how sprint affects map design and separates movement from combat. I'd have to sit and think about a response for a while. I'm pretty comfortable going back to just posting about news surrounding the game, and Pro League news/discussions.

 

I honestly wish we had a Halo game that everyone enjoyed so we didn't have pages and pages of negativity surrounding the game.

 

I think a common misconception is that enjoyment of X Halo game is due to Y feature, when it's often despite Y feature. I get the sense that most people who enjoy Halo 5 feel that criticism or alterations would negatively impact their enjoyment of the game, which is often untrue.

 

My take has always been this; you cannot really have a debate about the merits of a game until you define what the purpose of that game is. That's why I always frame the discussion in terms of "what is this game trying to be?" Because of the history of Halo, most of us define Halo's "success" in terms of how competitively viable it is. For me personally, that is how I am always framing my discussion of Halo games: Does this feature improve the competitive merit of the game? 

 

Once we contextualize our discussion, it's much easier to arrive at "objective" truths rather than subjective enjoyment.

 

 

 

How the hell is it okay to harass other people for their opinions? Did you even read my comment? Or is that what you honestly believe?

 

How am I harassing someone about their opinion? This is a discussion forum. If I think your opinion sucks, then I'll say so. That's not harassment, that's respecting you enough to be honest with you. Feel free to argue it with me; that's what a forum is. This isn't a college campus, this is a forum where dissenting opinions are welcome.

[QuietMan]

2. Pistol starts + the crispiness of crouch strafing make 1v1 battles in H5 easily the best of any Halo game since H1.

Except basically every close range 1v1 devolves into autos because autos destroy.   Mid range 1v1 with pistols are ruined by Halo 5's terrible aiming.   And long range 1v1 pistols, good luck.  Registration becomes a toss up. 

[cookies4you]

How am I harassing someone about their opinion? This is a discussion forum. If I think your opinion sucks, then I'll say so. That's not harassment, that's respecting you enough to be honest with you. Feel free to argue it with me; that's what a forum is.

There's good ol' brutal honest, and then there's demeaning someone for their opinion. Calling someone a shill, comparing them to flies breeding on shit, etc.

 

If you think it's fine to blatantly insult and humiliate others like that, then Team Beyond is not the forum for you.

[valaea]

Except basically every close range 1v1 devolves into autos because autos destroy.   Mid range 1v1 with pistols are ruined by Halo 5's terrible aiming.   And long range 1v1 pistols, good luck.  Registration becomes a toss up. 

 

 

Close-range occasionally devolves into autos, but then H1 often did as well.  I don't have any problem with aiming; the sensitivity curve is a bit off, but I adjusted to this after about 20 minutes back in December, so ...

[My Namez BEAST]

The problem is that some people that enjoy Halo 5 don't seem to be able to articulate why they actually like the game. The biggest one I've noticed is when the aiming is brought up. It's usually just "I don't have a problem so there is no problem". It's like when people said spread in Halo 3 "didn't really matter". Being able to look on something as a problem regardless of enjoyment is pretty important. Halo 5 is missing a shit ton of features and has basically changed every core principle Halo was built on. That is literally something that we can all see. That is a huge problem that a lot of people have. It's not crazy to think that a Halo forum has a pretty negative outlook on a game that barely resembles what Halo used to be.

 

Also, as far as crouch strafing being so effective that's largely due to the gimped aiming system and weird hitboxes on crouched people. It's similar to firing at a mongoose driver. Thrust is the only reason this game isn't "purrfect" city. Play a custom without thrust and look at your accuracy. Autos kill faster than precision weapons. The list of solid arguments against certain things is really large. The defense of these mechanics however, haven't been posted very thoroughly.

[My Namez BEAST]

Close-range occasionally devolves into autos, but then H1 often did as well. I don't have any problem with aiming; the sensitivity curve is a bit off, but I adjusted to this after about 20 minutes back in December, so ...

Halo 1 devolved into auto battles? What?

[Stoppabl3]

Close-range occasionally devolves into autos, but then H1 often did as well.  I don't have any problem with aiming; the sensitivity curve is a bit off, but I adjusted to this after about 20 minutes back in December, so ...

 

[Il Meanbean lI]

Everyone understands it. You guys just get all buttflustered when every single line in of every single post does not end with "in my opinion".

 

I can type "It's fucking disgusting to be sexually aroused by cutting someone open and licking their liver" without ending it in IMO even though there's undoubtedly somebody out there who loves doing that.

Are you sure you understand it?

 

No

 

Sprint makes halo play worse. That is not a subjective statement. It is not my opinion. It is a fact.

 

 

Seriously.

 

I've never seen a forum where discussions devolve into pointless battles over semantics so quickly.

 

People who like H5, why do you like it? Bonus points if you can come up with something that doesn't mention nostalgia, changing you mindset, trying to improve, getting over things, or saying "well, it's not too bad". What mechanics do you actually like and why.

 

Controversial opinions ahead:

 

IMO it has some of the best feeling shooting and movement in any FPS I play. 343 absolutely nailed that feeling of weighty yet agile movement. Clamber makes vertical movement far quicker and smoother, thruster adds a new dynamic to duels and allows for a bunch of cool movement tricks such as thrust slides, sprint is actually balanced I like being able to sprint across maps (on a side note I also prefer larger maps). The three mechanics combine to create a game where I find it fun just moving around the map. The pistol feels awesome to use and outshooting someone in a 1v1 feels so damn good

 

I find it incredibly satisfying to play, getting a multikill or pulling off a perfect reversal feels awesome. I constantly feel like I'm pulling off badass moves when I'm playing this game, in no small part due to the movement I discussed before. I also almost always feel like I've been outplayed or I outplayed the enemy in any given battle, very rarely do I feel like I had an unfair death or kill.

 

I like the variety in weapon usage the sandbox brings. I realise that it does not allow for the highest skill ceiling but I'm fine with that because having a game which isn't almost entirely dominated by BRs is incredibly refreshing (note: I do agree that the sandbox isn't perfect and there are changes I'd like to see).

 

I like the flagnum, it makes flag stalemates far less... well, stale. Holding the flag no longer relegates the player to hiding at the back of a base, they can push up and assist their teammates. I fucking love Strongholds, it's honestly my favourite gametype in the series when I'm playing with competent teammates, I've got a big-ass post elsewhere explaining why I love it so much so I won't bother going into detail here.

 

I really like a number of the maps, Coliseum, Fathom, Eden, Truth, Stasis, Plaza, Overgrowth ^kidding are all really good IMO.

 

Warzone (whilst flawed) is a tonne of casual, chaotic fun. The req system (also flawed) is fairly addicting and getting a legendary pop up in a pack is actually quite exciting.

 

Forge is insane and amazing.

 

Ground pound is just plain awesome.

 

I could go on but this post is already too long.

[BigShow36]

There's good ol' brutal honest, and then there's demeaning someone for their opinion. Calling someone a shill, comparing them to flies breeding on shit, etc.

 

If you think it's fine to blatantly insult and humiliate others like that, then Team Beyond is not the forum for you.

I don't think it's fine, but if you get butthurt by meaningless banter on forums, then the internet is not the place for you. While I haven't personally seen the "flies breeding on shit" statement, I think it's actually a pretty good metaphor for self-contained systems reinforcing poorly thought out opinions.

 

Team Beyond is incredibly tame when it comes to internet forums, and the mods do a good job of keeping it that way.

[QuietMan]

There's good ol' brutal honest, and then there's demeaning someone for their opinion. Calling someone a shill, comparing them to flies breeding on shit, etc.

 

If you think it's fine to blatantly insult and humiliate others like that, then Team Beyond is not the forum for you.

Damn that's brutal.  What kind of asshole would do that?   Definitely doesn't belong here!

[-DeucEy-]

How am I harassing someone about their opinion? This is a discussion forum. If I think your opinion sucks, then I'll say so. That's not harassment, that's respecting you enough to be honest with you. Feel free to argue it with me; that's what a forum is. This isn't a college campus, this is a forum where dissenting opinions are welcome.

 

This. I never understood why people turtle up so much when it comes to their opinion.

 

If there's one thing I don't like about this forum sometimes (FYI, I love this forum, hence why I'm here) is the people that sit here and complain that people are complaining about the game... But at the same time, every time a user posts a differentiating opinion and someone opposes, they turtle up and give the whole "OMG It's almost as if someone can have a different opinion than you" nonsense.

 

So basically you're saying that you don't want people to express concerns about the game... But then when you state a conflicting opinion that can lead to a full discussion, you don't want to talk about it...

 

Then what the hell do you guys want?!

 

What would you like to talk about exactly? Because I can assure you, almost none of us care about REQ pack discussions. The new Warzone mode seems okay. People like Firefight, cool, sweet. What else do you guys want to talk about?

 

@@valaea's post at the top of this page is a good example.

[valaea]

 

 

Right, forgot I was posting on TB and that people would assume the worst possible interpretation.  Probably should have added the necessary disclaimer; autos are overpowered in H5 in comparison to H1.  H1 is a better game than H5.  CQC is better in H1.  Etc.  

 

The point remains that complaining about autos being used at close range is sort of absurd; that is literally why autos exist

[Cooper]

1. Ground pound is a legitimately interesting/fun addition to gameplay (there's a good balance of risk vs. reward and it's satisfying to use correctly)

2. Pistol starts + the crispiness of crouch strafing make 1v1 battles in H5 easily the best of any Halo game since H1. When I'm out-shot in a 1v1 pistol battle I ain't even mad

3. While it took me a while to come around to the idea, the quickness and flow of sprint + clamber + slide + thruster have become addictive.  Going back to H3 feels like I'm literally floating underwater, and even though I love H1 the movement just feels so slow/awkward in comparison.  Using all of these abilities effectively in a really good Fathom CTF or Truth CTF game is the most fun I've had playing Halo in years.    

4. Warzone is not without flaws but is also very, very fun 

 

 

I've played traditional Halo games for a decade and honestly like the freshness of the new abilities and sandbox.  I realize this is sacrilege for TB, and obviously player population isn't doing too well, but, whatever.  I'm more than a little tired of playing Team BRs since 2005.  The H5 sandbox is varied and interesting, the maps are pretty good (though not perfect), and 343 have toned down the absurdity of armor abilities in Reach (armor lock / jetpack) and H4 (x-ray vision etc.); I have zero problem with the new abilities.  I mean, I'd prefer faster movement speed rather than sprint, but it's not anything I'm losing sleep over.  

1. Agree

 

2. While I agree that pistol vs pistol fights are amazing, doesn't it bother you that such a potentially amazing spawn weapon is so weak in comparison to map pick ups like the BR, DMR, LR, Carbine, SMG and SR?

 

3. Don't you think thrust, slide, mantling would feel even better if they were designed around a crisp, fast base movement speed instead of sprint?

 

4. Disagree lol. I hate how this game funnels me into a mode that I find quite boring. You pretty much have to play it if you want to rank up or get req points. Plus, 343 refuses to add actual social lists to MM and I think a lot of that has to do with warzone.

[BigShow36]

Right, forgot I was posting on TB and that people would assume the worst possible interpretation.  Probably should have added the necessary disclaimer; autos are overpowered in H5 in comparison to H1.  H1 is a better game than H5.  CQC is better in H1.  Etc.  

 

The point remains that complaining about autos being used at close range is sort of absurd; that is literally why autos exist

 

The issue is that the autos, based on their current ease of use, should never beat a precision weapon assuming all shots land, regardless of the distance (this is why the AR was fine in Halo CE; the pistol can always beat it). That is the only way to avoid the rock-paper-scissor gameplay we have now. The problem with Halo 5's autos is that they are so powerful you cannot beat them at close range. I don't care what their "role" is, that kind of power and ease-of-use destroys the balance of the game.

 

Autos exist so that in lower-skilled matches players can get kills against each other. They should not exist as an auto-win weapon at close range, regardless of player ability.

[Stoppabl3]

Right, forgot I was posting on TB and that people would assume the worst possible interpretation.  Probably should have added the necessary disclaimer; autos are overpowered in H5 in comparison to H1.  H1 is a better game than H5.  CQC is better in H1.  Etc.  

 

The point remains that complaining about autos being used at close range is sort of absurd; that is literally why autos exist

 

You just claimed that CE devolved into autos in CQC which isn't true at all, full stop. Don't try to make false claims to make H5 seem better, its a dishonest tactic at best, insidious at its worse. 

[Cooper]

 

IMO it has some of the best feeling shooting and movement in any FPS I play. 343 absolutely nailed that feeling of weighty yet agile movement.

 

Thank you for explaining for feelings.

 

This one though, I just don't get. I find H5 feels great. When you're not shooting. Then as soon as you stop to shoot someone, the world comes crashing down around you. You stop feeling agile and you become a tank. A tank that is moving about in a map that is scaled for a rocket car's speed.

 

For me, especially in comparison to playing Doom and some overwatch, H5 feels very dated and archaic. It seems like the rest of the industry is starting to remember that sprint in games with long kill times feels kinda awkward. But H5 is stuck a year behind the times.

[Cursed Lemon]

Probably the point at which I actually think those design choices are bad. 

 

Thus my questioning. 

[arglactable]

The point remains that complaining about autos being used at close range is sort of absurd; that is literally why autos exist

 

When has that ever actually been the complaint? The problem is that the excessive power of autos, plus a ton of other factors that turn close quarters fights into a complete clusterfuck, puts you at an inherent disadvantage if you are using a precision weapon. It becomes a matter of who has the right weapon out at the time (Waypoint tactics) unless you just barely manage to turn and five shot them, for which the window opportunity is VERY small (unless it's an SMG/SR).

[FollowTheWind]

1. Agree

 

2. While I agree that pistol vs pistol fights are amazing, doesn't it bother you that such a potentially amazing spawn weapon is so weak in comparison to map pick ups like the BR, DMR, LR, Carbine, SMG and SR?

 

3. Don't you think thrust, slide, mantling would feel even better if they were designed around a crisp, fast base movement speed instead of sprint?

 

4. Disagree lol. I hate how this game funnels me into a mode that I find quite boring. You pretty much have to play it if you want to rank up or get req points. Plus, 343 refuses to add actual social lists to MM and I think a lot of that has to do with warzone.

 

I don't know if the pistol should be at that level though, I remember Halo 5 beta BR spawns for arena, they were fun and auto's weren't nearly as infuriating in some situations, but I just felt it was just a bit too much. 

[-DeucEy-]

I haven't been opposed to the Pistol start in this game in comparison to the BR and stuff like that, although I did prefer BR start when we made that poll a long time ago. The biggest issue I have with that game is how difficult it is to use in comparison to the AR that you also spawn with that can kill you almost as fast with half the effort. Not to mention there's thrusting in this game that gives the AR  (and every other auto) a huge advantage up close. It's not as much the fact the I don't think auto rifles shouldn't be able to kill up close and you shouldn't be able to use the abilities to your advantage, but the fact that I'm using a precision weapon that takes a lot more skill, has a lot less magnetism, and having to deal with the fact that this game has an objectively awful aiming system (i.e. the reason we've had two updates for people to try and improve their aim).

 

The biggest argument is "Why don't you just use your AR?" Because unfortunately I don't have the luxury of knowing when someone is crouching in a corner staring at the bottom left of their screen, so I don't have time to switch to an AR to out shoot them. In CE and H3 when people did this (for the record.. People in CE didn't do this lol), they could die majority of the time because my aim was better, not because they could jump-thrust past my head and then I'm conflicted by the shitty aiming system.

[Cooper]

I don't know if the pistol should be at that level though, I remember Halo 5 beta BR spawns for arena, they were fun and auto's weren't nearly as infuriating in some situations, but I just felt it was just a bit too much. 

In what way?

[zZunair]

Do you even understand the effects sprint has on the game?

 

You can't "anticipate and react" to sprint's effects. That doesn't even make sense.

Please enlighten me how it's worse than an RNG weapon that you spawn with.

[Cooper]

Please enlighten me how it's worse than an RNG weapon that you spawn with.

It negatively impacts the very base that the game is built upon. The BR spread, while annoying and nonsensically designed, didn't effect every single aspect of the game.

 

Plus on LAN, or even a good connection it's effects on the game were minimal where as sprint is always an issue. Honestly I think a lot of people lay too much of H3's hit registration issue at the feet of the BR spread and not enough of it at the feet of horrid netcode. On LAN the BR spread wasn't a huge deal.