Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

[Cooper]

Not really the way I remember it, heroic map pack went free because it wasn't popular at all. Segregating the community especially with low population due to low map sales will do that.

 

It became free around 3 months later, and only included 3 maps and some forge stuff. Heck I even remember an episode of Arby 'n the Chief, where arbiter was complaining about how not worth the value heroic map pack was.

 

H5 defo got more content post launch 3 months later in terms of maps and forge stuff.

All maps were planned to go free. The 360 just changed and added achievements to DLC. Then they decided anything with dlc attached to it could not be free.

 

Didn't all h2 DLC maps eventually go free?

[Moa]

All maps were planned to go free. The 360 just changed and added achievements to DLC. Then they decided anything with dlc attached to it could not be free.

 

Didn't all h2 DLC maps eventually go free?

This isn't true. I believe it was Gears of War who released DLC and made it free while it has achievements attached.

 

No idea why they didn't make them free after at least six months or so.

[Il Meanbean lI]

Ahh ok forgot about that. Idk man, after June 95% of the team will be on H6, prototyping/planning has to be done at this point and actual development starting. I don't see them hiring more than 20 guys to keep releasing content. Barring a f2p announcement, which I massively support.

A F2P H5 multiplayer would be so damn good.

 

No idea how they'd do it but I'd support it.

[Shekkles]

It's not like they had 3 years to make it or anything.

 

I just want to hop in real quick with a counter-discussion to this just from an office point of view (I work in an office with a few different departments):

 

- Three years is a long time, no doubt, but 343 is a new studio that has only made 1 game prior. They had a mish-mash team thrown together and worked really hard to release Halo 4 on time and to a AAA standard. Following this, they probably had a big restructuring to make Halo 5 work better.

 

- The engineering team has worked hard on this game. The frame rate tech is really good, this is the most stable console game frame rate I've ever played and props to them for that. The lighting is good, forge is a masterpiece and it very obvious that a lot of components have become modular allowed them to patch it without breaking something else. Halo 5's engine was clearly designed from the ground up for the future, and it works really well. The reason I mention this is that adding new game modes is possible, the engineering team just had to get the foundations down first.

 

- I can't speak for the art team or designer team. A lot of artists are contracted on for a few months and then let go when the game is shipped. Not sure how 343 does it, but that's the way it is. The way the game plays is up to the designers and I won't discuss that.

 

TL;DR: They restructured, created an engine from scratch, learnt the new console from scratch and made the engine modular. This takes time, and the engine does seem quite solid. Features were lacking from launch, but it was clear they intended to release them. I'm not excusing them, just pointing out possible reasons.

[FollowTheWind]

All maps were planned to go free. The 360 just changed and added achievements to DLC. Then they decided anything with dlc attached to it could not be free.

 

Didn't all h2 DLC maps eventually go free?

 

I have read some people say something similar about this, and just call the gears of war example an "exception", but I mean does it matter if it was "supposed" to go free or whatever speculation is going?

 

At the end of the day this post launch content doesn't require me to buy anything apart from the original game, this was not done in another Halo, and pretty frustrating when I was younger and parents refused to allow me to buy online content. This is definitely a massive plus for the community.

[Cooper]

This isn't true. I believe it was Gears of War who released DLC and made it free while it has achievements attached.

 

No idea why they didn't make them free after at least six months or so.

When was this?

[Edain]

I have read some people say something similar about this, and just call the gears of war example an "exception", but I mean does it matter if it was "supposed" to go free or whatever speculation is going?

 

At the end of the day this post launch content doesn't require me to buy anything apart from the original game, this was not done in another Halo, and pretty frustrating when I was younger and parents refused to allow me to buy online content. This is definitely a massive plus for the community.

Why didn't that let you buy online content? Also, why did you have to have your parents permission? lmao

[MultiLockOn]

 

 

:holmes:

He said "not true" and then literally confirmed everything I said. Gg @@Unyshek

[Moa]

When was this?

I'll look into it and get back to you. I might have pulled the Gears of War part out of my ass but I used to say the same thing back in the day and someone linked me to a game that had free DLC with DLC related achievements.

 

If I haven't replied to you by tomorrow, tag me. I probably forgot.

 

Why didn't that let you buy online content? Also, why did you have to have your parents permission? lmao

Some of us had to ask parents to buy us it in the past, myself included. I didn't get any pocket money.

 

It's pretty common.

[Sosa Baby]

I just want to hop in real quick with a counter-discussion to this just from an office point of view (I work in an office with a few different departments):

 

- Three years is a long time, no doubt, but 343 is a new studio that has only made 1 game prior. They had a mish-mash team thrown together and worked really hard to release Halo 4 on time and to a AAA standard. Following this, they probably had a big restructuring to make Halo 5 work better.

 

- The engineering team has worked hard on this game. The frame rate tech is really good, this is the most stable console game frame rate I've ever played and props to them for that. The lighting is good, forge is a masterpiece and it very obvious that a lot of components have become modular allowed them to patch it without breaking something else. Halo 5's engine was clearly designed from the ground up for the future, and it works really well. The reason I mention this is that adding new game modes is possible, the engineering team just had to get the foundations down first.

 

- I can't speak for the art team or designer team. A lot of artists are contracted on for a few months and then let go when the game is shipped. Not sure how 343 does it, but that's the way it is. The way the game plays is up to the designers and I won't discuss that.

 

TL;DR: They restructured, created an engine from scratch, learnt the new console from scratch and made the engine modular. This takes time, and the engine does seem quite solid. Features were lacking from launch, but it was clear they intended to release them. I'm not excusing them, just pointing out possible reasons.

The FPS is stable but its ugly when the spartans run in 30FPS animation from a distance.

[wow]

Really? Halo 5 is meant to have launched with 20+ maps ? I mean I get the launch didn't have enough content but lets not act like all these maps were somehow expected, that all this content we are getting monthly right now should have all been at launch; apart from playlists and forge (which only took 1 month).

 

Lets compare that to other games shall we? Halo 3 launched with 11 maps, and all the consecutive content was not free and segregated the community. Let's look at black ops 3 (better comparison for a modern AAA game), BO 3 launched with 12 maps, all consecutive content not free and segregated the community.

 

Halo 5 launched with around 13 maps at launch (not including the break out maps).

I personally think the no. of maps h5 wasn't too bad, but nobody expected 20+ maps. People expected original maps, maps with no limitations and fulfilled potential. 9 original maps at launch ain't great regardless of how different or similar the remixes are.

 

Also some people here and on other forums still don't know the difference between a delayed content update and 'free' DLC. Things like forge, UI features, game types, are all updates addressing things that should have - but couldn't- make it to launch. The only free content we've actually been getting are remixes (half-effort maps), and micro transaction pool top-ups (which every micro transaction ever created has).

 

Let's not forget how many assets they obviously reuse in their DLC maps too, especially with Warzone which is so stale and homogeneous atm.

[TheIcePrincess]

He said "not true" and then literally confirmed everything I said. Gg @@Unyshek

Pretty sure he didn't say "not true" to the "they've had them" statement, but rather, the statement on how they're "finished", because he spoke on how they found issues/exploits, that require tweaks/balancing/fixing.

[FollowTheWind]

Why didn't that let you buy online content? Also, why did you have to have your parents permission? lmao

 

I never had a credit card and my parents were very old school in the sense of "online purchases is unsafe" or whatever crap. No stores which sold pre-paid MS points and no friends with cards either.

 

Isn't this a normal thing?

[Shekkles]

The FPS is stable but its ugly when the spartans run in 30FPS animation from a distance.

 

Would you rather that or an FPS drop? 

 

I play a mix of PC/Xbox and I much prefer framerate over graphics. It is weird seeing the animation drops though, I feel they could have sacrificed something else but I'm not a programmer.

[Edain]

I'll look into it and get back to you. I might have pulled the Gears of War part out of my ass but I used to say the same thing back in the day and someone linked me to a game that had free DLC with DLC related achievements.

 

If I haven't replied to you by tomorrow, tag me. I probably forgot.

 

Some of us had to ask parents to buy us it in the past, myself included. I didn't get any pocket money.

 

It's pretty common.

Idk. Just seems weird to me. As a 13 year old it wasn't too difficult for me to earn $20.

[Moa]

@@Cooper

 

Found it. Gears of War 1 had new achievements related to the Hidden Fronts Multiplayer Map Pack 2. The DLC pack originally cost 800 points but later became free.

 

http://www.xboxachievements.com/game/gears-of-war/achievements/

http://gearsofwar.wikia.com/wiki/Hidden_Fronts

 

Idk. Just seems weird to me. As a 13 year old it wasn't too difficult for me to earn $20.

Yeah, I hear you.

 

For me, I already had to try and help pay for my Runescape membership (christ, I still laugh), and my Xbox Live membership too. 

Asking for an extra 20 bucks for DLC was a tough sell. These days my parents are a lot more understanding but I pay for my own stuff these days. 

[Edain]

I never had a credit card and my parents were very old school in the sense of "online purchases is unsafe" or whatever crap. No stores which sold pre-paid MS points and no friends with cards either.

 

Isn't this a normal thing?

I don't know. I lived in a relatively small town during H3 and microsoft point cards weren't difficult to find. My parents were the same with their credit cards though.

[FollowTheWind]

I personally think the no. of maps h5 wasn't too bad, but nobody expected 20+ maps. People expected original maps, maps with no limitations and fulfilled potential. 9 original maps at launch ain't great regardless of how different or similar the remixes are.

 

Also some people here and on other forums still don't know the difference between a delayed content update and 'free' DLC. Things like forge, UI features, game types, are all updates addressing things that should have - but couldn't- make it to launch. The only free content we've actually been getting are remixes (half-effort maps), and micro transaction pool top-ups (which every micro transaction ever created has).

 

Let's not forget how many assets they obviously reuse in their DLC maps too, especially with Warzone which is so stale and homogeneous atm.

Totally wrong and unfair. Noctus, Skirmish, Torque are not remixes or half-effort maps, nor should remixes even be called "half-effort maps", also I'm pretty sure Tyrant is also not a remix (never been called that way by 343, unlike the actual remixes). Only thing which is half-effort and presented as "new and fresh" are the Assault variants of the warzone maps.

 

Also the remixes exist because creating 1 totally original map a month free is not something which I really expect, especially considering everything else which it is released with. Most of the remixes play differently enough and look different enough. Plaza to Overgrowth, Fathom to Riptide etc... In fact Statis is the only map thus far which I would say had the least effort put.

[FLuFFy]

 

For me, I already had to try and help pay for my Runescape membership (christ, I still laugh), and my Xbox Live membership too. 

Asking for an extra 20 bucks for DLC was a tough sell. These days my parents are a lot more understanding but I pay for my own stuff these days. 

 

 

Runescape membership was so cheap back then. I spent to much time on that game.

[Cooper]

I have read some people say something similar about this, and just call the gears of war example an "exception", but I mean does it matter if it was "supposed" to go free or whatever speculation is going?

 

At the end of the day this post launch content doesn't require me to buy anything apart from the original game, this was not done in another Halo, and pretty frustrating when I was younger and parents refused to allow me to buy online content. This is definitely a massive plus for the community.

Ya, on paper it looks good. In practice the arena dlc maps have actually somehow managed to make the game worse.

[Edain]

 

@@Cooper

 

Found it. Gears of War 1 had new achievements related to the Hidden Fronts Multiplayer Map Pack 2. The DLC pack originally cost 800 points but later became free.

 

http://www.xboxachievements.com/game/gears-of-war/achievements/

http://gearsofwar.wikia.com/wiki/Hidden_Fronts

 

 

Yeah, I hear you.

 

For me, I already had to try and help pay for my Runescape membership (christ, I still laugh), and my Xbox Live membership too. 

Asking for an extra 20 bucks for DLC was a tough sell. These days my parents are a lot more understanding but I pay for my own stuff these days. 

 

I can see that. For me I made it a priority to buy the new maps because I was that obsessed with Halo 3. lol I would save a 1600msp card like a month in advance just to get the maps the day they came out.

[Il Meanbean lI]

Totally wrong and unfair. Noctus, Skirmish, Torque are not remixes or half-effort maps

Yeah but Noctus and Skirmish use the same bases as the other warzone maps so they're basically the same map right?

 

Also Torque uses the UNSC art style so that doesn't count either.

 

 

/s

[Cooper]

 

@@Cooper

 

Found it. Gears of War 1 had new achievements related to the Hidden Fronts Multiplayer Map Pack 2. The DLC pack originally cost 800 points but later became free.

 

http://www.xboxachievements.com/game/gears-of-war/achievements/

http://gearsofwar.wikia.com/wiki/Hidden_Fronts

 

Yeah, I hear you.

 

For me, I already had to try and help pay for my Runescape membership (christ, I still laugh), and my Xbox Live membership too.

Asking for an extra 20 bucks for DLC was a tough sell. These days my parents are a lot more understanding but I pay for my own stuff these days.

Interesting. It looks as though it went free in early 07 though. That's long before the heroic maps and waaay before the legendary map pack which is roughly the time MS decided to stop free dlc.

[Moa]

Interesting. It looks as though it went free in early 07 though. That's long before the heroic maps and waaay before the legendary map pack which is roughly the time MS decided to stop free dlc.

True. I'll have a look around and see if there are any more examples.

 

Runescape membership was so cheap back then. I spent to much time on that game.

 

2016 and we still going strong.

[Mr Grim]

Maps that reuse any major areas of another map already in the game is lazy, I don't care if it's not expected of them to give us new maps, that just shows how low we think of them.