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Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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True, but the typical dumb sentiment of "H1 maps are too small for 4v4" does apply at a certain point, and otherwise we want the speed/strafe to be fast enough such that a player can competently dodge shots. I'd argue that every Halo has given us the bare, bare minimum as far as that goes.

So would you recommend a speed faster than CE? About the same? Or can it be even slower?

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Can't we just have increased base movement speed and movement acceleration along with a decent FOV for the next installment instead of god damn sprint already, or would that just make too much sense for a Halo game?  :mj:

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"Expected features" is probably my most hated pro-sprint argument.

 

I literally can't even comprehend it.  It's not like in 2001 I was all "every game ever needs regenerating health, regardless of context".  I understand that games are different, that they play different and have different goals they want to achieve, and I was still a fucking kid when I came to that conclusion.  I wouldn't expect regenerating health in an attrition based game like CS, nor would I expect fast movement and jumping in a horror game that wants to slowly build a tense atmosphere.  You implement mechanics to fit the goals of the game, not to align your game with every other game on the market.

 

It's especially annoying to hear "you just hate change" when I've played hundreds of wildly different games, while most of the people accusing me of this have probably never played anything that wasn't a completely mainstream FPS following the same cookie-cutter formulas.

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"Expected features" is probably my most hated pro-sprint argument.

 

I literally can't even comprehend it.  It's not like in 2001 I was all "every game ever needs regenerating health, regardless of context".  I understand that games are different, that they play different and have different goals they want to achieve.  I wouldn't expect regenerating health in an attrition based game like CS, nor would I expect fast movement and jumping in a horror game that wants to slowly build a tense atmosphere.  You implement mechanics to fit the goals of the game, not to align your game with every other game on the market.

 

It's especially annoying to hear "you just hate change" when I've played hundreds of wildly different games, while most of the people accusing me of this have probably never played anything that wasn't a completely mainstream FPS following the same cookie-cutter formula.

It is especially ironic with the people who bring up arguments pro-sprint with this "expected features" crap yet staunchly defend how a "game plays" over its look.

 

Like, have they missed the point entirely?

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Again though, is that honestly a negative if your point of reference (maps) are scaled to that speed?

 

Combine that with a larger FOV and you can give the illusion of being fast without the "illusion"* of sprint

(* - some people actually call Sprint being an illusion of speed a reason for keeping it in lol)

 

Speed is only one part of the equation that makes up the pacing of the game. Kill times and spawn times, for example, play a huge role, as does the structure of the map. It's not a simple thing. 

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So would you recommend a speed faster than CE? About the same? Or can it be even slower?

 

A little faster than CE wouldn't hurt, especially in a game going forward - I wouldn't really feel up to playtesting every single stupid map in CE just to do a speed bump. 

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Speed is only one part of the equation that makes up the pacing of the game. Kill times and spawn times, for example, play a huge role, as does the structure of the map. It's not a simple thing.

 

Correct, but the time to kill is not affecting how fast you move.

 

By that, I mean they are on two different planes. Kill times do not inherently affect your movement, but those two do interact with eachother.

 

Map design being wider makes movement longer objectively. Structure of the map also ties in here - wide spaces will of couese make you feel much slower.

 

However, kill times and spawn times. DO NOT INHERENTLY AFFECT YOUR MOVEMENT in terms of just that - moving. we can argue the quality of a game with fast movement with more enclosed maps with longer kill times and slow respawn, but making a pistol a 4 shot vs a 5 shot is not changing anything about the feeling of speed or how quickly your spartan moves.

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Not sure what the obsession with following CoD is. That game is dying, as seen by the dropping of sales numbers over the last few years, so it makes sense that by following them its just going to have the same effect on your community. People are getting sick of CoD, and are moving to other games, the best thing you can do, is go the other way. If Halo 6 removes sprint and all the abilities and returns to good ol 2004 it would be GoTY because it would be different but familiar.

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Well, playing at 110-125% speed in customs on the map "Avalanche" in Halo 3 made the game play more fun, and no adjustment to spawn points, spawn times or kill times were used. Just felt right.

 

So, I have mentioned this before, what if speed was simply more points along the stick as you push forward, ie slowly at first, the faster and faster until you are practically sprinting, but really just a fast power walk. I have debated sprint in my own mind, as I personally like the feeling of effort in-result out, but-am I right about the following underlying objections to sprint?

 

1) You are lowering your weapon when you sprint, but not when you "walk faster"

 

2) You have to hit a seperate button to sprint, but only push up further on the same stick you walk with to again, "walk faster".

 

I would be happy with that, how about the rest of TB?

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Not sure what the obsession with following CoD is. That game is dying, as seen by the dropping of sales numbers over the last few years, so it makes sense that by following them its just going to have the same effect on your community. People are getting sick of CoD, and are moving to other games, the best thing you can do, is go the other way. If Halo 6 removes sprint and all the abilities and returns to good ol 2004 it would be GoTY because it would be different but familiar.

Is it people getting sick of Call of Duty, or people getting sick of three different developers changing shit every single year?

 

I know I hated going from Black Ops 2 to Ghosts. That was the biggest downgrade ever.

 

I feel like if it was just Treyarch after Black Ops 2, it would be great and sales would be a lot higher.

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Is it people getting sick of Call of Duty, or people getting sick of three different developers changing shit every single year?

 

I know I hated going from Black Ops 2 to Ghosts. That was the biggest downgrade ever.

 

I feel like if it was just Treyarch after Black Ops 2, it would be great and sales would be a lot higher.

Cannot wrap my head around the love of BO2, especially on the competitive side.

 

Felt like the same RNG bullshit present in every CoD ever, not that I necessarily hate that, but not very conducive for esports

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Cannot wrap my head around the love of BO2, especially on the competitive side.

 

Felt like the same RNG bullshit present in every CoD ever, not that I necessarily hate that, but not very conducive for esports

RNG bullshit?

 

Go on.

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RNG bullshit?

 

Go on.

Classes, perks, killstreak, etc, also a nice layer of fast kill times with zero difficulty hitting an opponent on top

 

Is that not BO2 and every COD game?

 

I legitimately did not pay attention to COD esports so correct me if I'm wrong here, but if those are in competitive play, I fail to see how thats "competitive"

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Classes, perks, killstreak, etc, also a nice layer of fast kill times with zero difficulty hitting an opponent on top

 

Is that not BO2 and every COD game?

 

I legitimately did not pay attention to COD esports so correct me if I'm wrong here, but if those are in competitive play, I fail to see how thats "competitive"

Ah, I hear you.

 

I still think Black Ops 2 is the most competitive Call of Duty title. Those things sound like bullshit on paper but when you're playing, you're not losing because some guy has slight of hand or something.

 

Don't think this is the place to continue discussing it, though.

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Correct, but the time to kill is not affecting how fast you move.

 

By that, I mean they are on two different planes. Kill times do not inherently affect your movement, but those two do interact with eachother.

 

Map design being wider makes movement longer objectively. Structure of the map also ties in here - wide spaces will of couese make you feel much slower.

 

However, kill times and spawn times. DO NOT INHERENTLY AFFECT YOUR MOVEMENT in terms of just that - moving. we can argue the quality of a game with fast movement with more enclosed maps with longer kill times and slow respawn, but making a pistol a 4 shot vs a 5 shot is not changing anything about the feeling of speed or how quickly your spartan moves.

 

My point in saying that was that raising or lowering the movement speed and scaling the map size does not automatically neutralize any other effects it might have on the game. It's more complicated than that.

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My point in saying that was that raising or lowering the movement speed and scaling the map size does not automatically neutralize any other effects it might have on the game. It's more complicated than that.

You're arguing that Halo provides the bare minimum in speed, but speed can be only compared when you have a point of reference.

 

Halo 5's maps are larger to accomodate more movement, Halo CE's are smaller and more vertical due to that game's movement.

 

Are kill times and spawning important factors in map design? Yes, but we aren't talking about that. We're talking about making a player feel fast.

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Didn't most of us play Halo because it was different than other games? I don't get this obsession to be like other games nowadays. I wonder how much people play Halo 5 because of the abilities and wouldn't play other wise. It seems like the majority of people that play Halo 5 are lifelong Halo fans, or fans since atleast Halo 3. Those numbers are probably impossible to calculate, but I don't think these new abilities are selling points to a lot of people. Maybe were the minority, maybe not, but it feels like some of these changes are too much for older fans and not enough for newer FPS players. Oh well, not like things are going to change any way.

 

And COD 4 was fucking awesome. I have hated COD since MW2 and will never touch another COD game, but COD 4 was the shit. I put as much time into that game as Halo 3, which was a lot. Abilities play a big role in liking a Halo or COD game, but at the end of the day, it's if the game is consistently fun or not.

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You're arguing that Halo provides the bare minimum in speed, but speed can be only compared when you have a point of reference.

 

Halo 5's maps are larger to accomodate more movement, Halo CE's are smaller and more vertical due to that game's movement.

 

Are kill times and spawning important factors in map design? Yes, but we aren't talking about that. We're talking about making a player feel fast.

 

Yes but just because it would solve that one particular problem doesn't mean we can just do it - that would make us 343-style game designers irresponsible idiots. 

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Yes but just because it would solve that one particular problem doesn't mean we can just do it - that would make us 343-style game designers irresponsible idiots.

 

You're saying this like the idea of smaller maps and a wide FOV has never been tested and been successful

 

I believe a game who's combat may have been evolved would like to have a word with you.

 

We know this can work, it just hasn't been given the time of day to under 343.

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You're saying this like the idea of smaller maps and a wide FOV has never been tested and been successful

 

I believe a game who's combat may have been evolved would like to have a word with you.

 

We know this can work, it just hasn't been given the time of day to under 343.

 

To be clear, I don't think a minor speed boost to CE would produce any meaningful results aside from increasing the shooting skill gap, which would be peachy. 

 

But if players were whipping around at the speed of Quake or old Doom on Chill Out, it could have some negative repercussions. 

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You're saying this like the idea of smaller maps and a wide FOV has never been tested and been successful

 

I believe a game who's combat may have been evolved would like to have a word with you.

 

We know this can work, it just hasn't been given the time of day to under 343.

 

This right here is the closest evolution of Halo that retains Halo gameplay, not incorporating random garbage from other games. 

 

100 FOV :dank:   :fire:

DaAaIH6.png

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The spawns on fathom are silly. I literally can spawn in Red garage if a team is arming in my base.

 

 

 

In sensitivity news, 3s 4acc is feeling lovely for now :simms:

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Can't we just have increased base movement speed and movement acceleration along with a decent FOV for the next installment instead of god damn sprint already, or would that just make too much sense for a Halo game?  :mj:

One things that bamboozles me... games having a wider FOV when sprinting...

 

WHY CAN'T I ALWAYS HAVE A WIDER FOV  BibleThump.png

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