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Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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The worst thing about it all is all these ******** changes have been made for the sake of chasing cod esque sales and if any of these people in positions of power had any brains at all. They would just have kept halo the same and released it on all platforms.

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Removing sprint

Theoretical idea:

 

Would you guys be willing to accept sprint if it was a mere 125% multiplier to your base run speed in multiplayer

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Theoretical idea:

 

Would you guys be willing to accept sprint if it was a mere 125% multiplier to your base run speed in multiplayer

It is still Sprint, no matter how you try play it off otherwise.

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To me it really seems like the game is on the edge between potentially being the best Halo game since H1 and being a complete and utter disaster on the level of H4 or worse. With a few tweaks like:

  • Remove sprint
  • Make ADS function the way we were told it would function (exactly the same as zooming mechanically).
  • Remove flinch and recoil.
  • Nerf automatics
  • Various aesthetic tweaks like the sniper not being able to quickscope properly, guns taking up too much of the screen, etc.
I genuinely believe the game could turn into an experience that feels fresh and true to the Halo core while also being a fantastic competitive game (the low aim assist right away is a huge deal in this regard). Even as is we've been seeing pros from 343 who are familiar with the game spank pros who haven't had time with it. That wouldn't be happening with H4 or H2A, guaranteed.

 

Alternatively the game could end up being an insane clusterfuck that once again feels like the bastard hybrid of Halo and whatever popular game 343 is trying to copy. Right now it seems like once people really learn how to use it sprint + thrusters + slide + ground pound + spartan charge + sword are all going to be combinations that have potential to become heavily abused. On top of this all the small changes add up in my mind. The enormous number of little changes 343 has introduced to the game all combine to make the game feel less and less like Halo, whether those changes are replacing the iconic rocket launcher design or replacing the zoom animation with ADS.

 

A lot of people have been saying the game feels good, but not like a Halo game. Which I think is sad. Personally while I'm excited to try a new Halo that legitimately feels fresh, I'm not really interested in playing something that looks like Halo but feels like something different. I bought an Xbox One for Halo, not for Titanfall or COD or Destiny or something that feels inspired by those games. I'm all for things like thruster being added to Halo and I can even deal with adjusting the visual identity of the game via things like cosmetic ADS, but if the game doesn't legitimately play like Halo at the end of the day it won't hold my interest any more than Titanfall or COD or Destiny have. I think a lot of people feel the same way and if the game doesn't feel like Halo its not going to hold a core audience, just like H4.

 

Removing sprint would be an absolutely enormous help to this game, but small changes add up and make a difference as well. Remove flinch and recoil, the game doesn't need to artificially introduce an aiming skill gap by actively fighting my aim. Breaks immersion too because I'm a damn super soldier, I ought to be able to hold a pistol without experiencing recoil. Make ADS 100% cosmetic like you told us it would be. Don't adjust my aiming sensitivity when I'm aiming down sights either, that's just annoying. Stop throwing freebies to the COD crowd like having to hold down the zoom button to stay in sights. These are the things that make the game feel like an authentic Halo game, which is ultimately what everyone who is going to be playing your game and making it relevant a month after launch wants.

So do you think the game is going to be as you said, as bad as halo 4, if sprint is not removed?

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It is still Sprint, no matter how you try play it off otherwise.

Yep, unless as CT said with the perfect kill times going way down, any version of sprint is very detrimental to team BR Halo. The latest tweak that your shields don't recharge literally changes nothing, you can still easily get away and rush into battles in a game breaking fashion.

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Yep, unless as CT said with the perfect kill times going way down, any version of sprint is very detrimental to team BR Halo. The latest tweak that your shields don't recharge literally changes nothing, you can still easily get away and rush into battles in a game breaking fashion.

That is absolutely not the impression I got from watching Streams

 

I watched Snipedown, then Neighbor, then Walshy

 

Snipedown and Walshy repeatedly got themselves killed through excessive sprinting

 

Only Neighbor understood you need to sprint as conservative a distance as possible and he's been playing the game for 5 months

 

Furthermore Neighbor would aggressively sprint and thrust into players who were sprinting away which means this iteration of sprint is causing the exact opposite issue where it is now incredibly easy for the aggressor to chase down kills

 

Really can't have it both ways on this argument

 

I think what needs to be done is the shield stop also needs to be applied to thrusters because these things are your primary defensive tool not sprint

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So do you think the game is going to be as you said, as bad as halo 4, if sprint is not removed.

I have no idea - I haven't played the game. I'm just basing what I said earlier off of reading impressions from people who have played the game and of course watching footage, etc.

 

I will say though if the game ships without bugs and good matchmaking and ranking systems it cannot possibly tank as hard as H4 did.

 

Whether or not the game will have staying power will depend in my opinion on how abusable the spartan abilities and movement options can become. I know a lot of the pros have been saying that they hardly ever use sprint, ground pound etc in a competitive match, but these are also the same people who have learned to play Halo a very specific way for the last 10 years. Wait till guys like Gamesager get their hands on the game to really see how the mechanics play out. It might become like pre-v7 reach where once teams figured out they could do it the game basically became mindless sprinting forward. 

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How about 110%

 

I thought of this as well. If base movement is already at a decent speed, the need for sprint to be significantly faster is reduced. So is base speed is at 110, sprint could be at 120-125. The problems with sprint should be reduced since there isn't 2 completely different speeds that the map would have to adjust to. 

 

I think you should be shot out of sprint. If base speed is a good speed there will be less need for sprint meaning you shouldn't really be caught sprinting as often and if you are, you should be punished for it. 

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So it seems the general opinion around here is to have sprint removed or speed up kill times to mitigate the issues that sprint causes.  Am I correct in assuming this?

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I kinda wish H5 was coming out on PC also so the modding community cant get their hands on it to do all the changes we want 343 to do.

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I kinda wish H5 was coming out on PC also so the modding community cant get their hands on it to do all the changes we want 343 to do.

LOL

 

If the PC community got their hands on Halo they would probably just remove the velocity cap from sprinting entirely

 

You would suddenly be butting heads with 1000 people who feel the same way about movement that I do

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That is absolutely not the impression I got from watching Streams

 

I watched Snipedown, then Neighbor, then Walshy

 

Snipedown and Walshy repeatedly got themselves killed through excessive sprinting

 

Only Neighbor understood you need to sprint as conservative a distance as possible and he's been playing the game for 5 months

 

Furthermore Neighbor would aggressively sprint and thrust into players who were sprinting away which means this iteration of sprint is causing the exact opposite issue where it is now incredibly easy for the aggressor to chase down kills

 

Really can't have it both ways on this argument

 

I think what needs to be done is the shield stop also needs to be applied to thrusters because these things are your primary defensive tool not sprint

Aggressively pursing people by sprinting and thrusting after them....really....? It is not incredibly easy to finish kills and JUST like in halo 4, when you do exactly what you just said, you're going to be punished for chasing a guy who SHOULD have died by his teammates. That's exactly what I saw when watching twitch, nothing changed.

 

You literally just said 2 completely opposite things in one post, Walsh and snipe down were sprinting too much but for neighbor, sprinting and thrusting resulted in "incredibly easy kills."

 

You need to educate yourself and read cT's latest long post.

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The ramp up speed for Sprint helps with people shooting and then sprinting away, as any damage taken will knock you out of sprint during the ramp-up period. However, this is often negated, as people thrust around a corner, and then sprint away. Needs to be some sort of delay between thruster & sprint. 

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...The problems with sprint should be reduced ...

 

Why not just eliminate the problems altogether? Why continue talking about 343's obsession with sprint as something you wouldn't mind living with?

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You need to educate yourself and read cT's latest long post.

I read it, and he's said what I've been saying the whole time

 

The problem isn't sprint itself it's the kill times, so FIX THE KILL TIMES. That's like complaining your car doesn't work because you have your battery's dead and needs total replacement and instead blaming the flat tire that's totally unrelated and just needs some quick patching.

 

I said two opposite things because two opposite things happened.

 

Snipedown and Walshy sprinted around wrecklessly and repeatedly got caught with no shields in situations where they would have survived if they simply walked away from the engagement. Like they're peekshotting from a corner and then start sprinting when they eat a nade that they ate because their thruster was down because they used it for no reason earlier, then sprint halfway across the map in a situation where they aren't under fire at all then get exploded because they walk into a second engagement with no shields. If they just simply walked to the engagement they would have been full shield and straight up 4d them because they're ex MLG pros.

 

Neighbor with his full understanding of the movement and its implications repeatedly roflstomped even full TO4s of semi-pro players 50-7 and did it over and over and over because he flowed around the map hyperaggressively, using the movement abilities to put his opponents out of position by getting into a counter position faster than his opponents reacted to it. That's how FPS games are supposed to work. A shutout of that magnitude would literally never happen in H2A because it is so difficult to land a kill without trading yourself that 50-49 coinflips are the standard.

 

Maybe 343 will surprise us and Team Hardcore will revolve around a 3 shot weapon with no radar.

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This game will still be trash irrespective of what they do, because they won't do what needs to be done. Neg me pls.

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I kinda wish H5 was coming out on PC also so the modding community cant get their hands on it to do all the changes we want 343 to do.

Doesn't the XB1 support modding if the devs allow it? One can dream.

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Zanno gets it. It's always about kill times, the difficulty to achieve said kill times, and ways to achieve said kill times.

 

It is entirely possible for sprint to decrease kill times if one plays like Neighbor.

 

If sprint resets thruster cool down as well, sprint is going to be a very interesting mechanic and not in a bad way. A way to push, something to synergize with other movement abilities, but hardly a way to escape. Hell, disable ground pound while shields are down, too. That way, an aggressor can be sprinting and thruster and ground pound lunging all the way toward a runner and smack their shit silly. (Some people are weary of the notion of using ground pound as a way to traverse the map. I myself would love that.)

 

I'd really like such an aggressive style of Halo.

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So it seems the general opinion around here is to have sprint removed or speed up kill times to mitigate the issues that sprint causes. Am I correct in assuming this?

If you remove Sprint, you remove the problems it causes but not the ones it already caused, such as poor map design. If you simply speed up kill times (and enlarge grenade radius) to compensate for Sprint, then you are balancing the gunplay around a speed not used by players during an actual firefight. It seems obvious, but the closer you make Sprint resemble base speed, the fewer problems arise. Take a look at these characteristics of Sprint:

 

Sprint prevents shooting: This causes a host of problems, giving the advantage to a fleeing player, discouraging active play, and making the game overall choppy.

Forward movement only: This prevents Sprint from being used to strafe. (Strafing has been in FPS games for just over 20 years now....)

 

If you changed these two characteristics, Sprint would turn into a mere increase in base movement, simply upon removing those arbitrary traits invented who-knows-when. Kill times would need to be decreased just as with Sprint, and the strafe would need to be made smoother accordingly to accommodate that decrease. If you wanted to keep Thruster, it would be best to allow shooting--I think it would be an acceptable addition to Halo.

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