Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

[Sitri]

There is no 3-round burst when scoped in, which I thought was strange. It kind of makes it like the DMR which is pointless and homogenizes the weapon Sandbox.

It's not, it's just accurate.

[l1nk22]

There is no visible 3-round burst on the BR anymore, From watching videos it seems like there was no difference in feel or how the gun shot between the DMR and BR. Maybe its different if you play it, from I literally thought the BR was the DMR at first glance.

 

The BR is still a 3-round burst when scoped.

[Hitman]

The BR is still a 3-round burst when scoped.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Uqqe-mKN6I#t=259

 

Do you see any visible 3-round burst when he is firing the BR here? Sure you can see three bullets leaving the clip when he fires, but Its so fast it might as well be single-shot because it makes no difference in how you aim the BR and DMR now. 

 

Compare that to the H2A BR https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iesc6f1tVP4 which has the signature "tracking" aiming style of the BR and visible three-round burst. Not only that but it has that deep rhythmic thud of the three rounds leaving the clip that the BR is known for, whereas the H5 BR sounds too high-pitched(like H4's BR) and not like a BR. I hope those sounds and weapon models are placeholder because they are way off.

[l1nk22]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Uqqe-mKN6I#t=259

 

Do you see any visible 3-round burst when he is firing the BR here? Sure you can see three bullets leaving the clip when he fires, but Its so fast it might as well be single-shot because it makes no difference in how you aim the BR and DMR now. 

 

Compare that to the H2A BR https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iesc6f1tVP4 which has the signature "tracking" aiming style of the BR and visible three-round burst.

 

I must of misunderstood you when you said there was no visible 3-round burst on the BR. However from playing it personally I did notice there to be a difference between the accuracy of the BR and DMR. I think we'll notice the difference more on bigger maps too. Also I thought people wanted the BR to have less spread so we didn't have the BR from Halo 3 again?

[Sitri]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Uqqe-mKN6I#t=259

 

Do you see any visible 3-round burst when he is firing the BR here? Sure you can see three bullets leaving the clip when he fires, but Its so fast it might as well be single-shot because it makes no difference in how you aim the BR and DMR now. 

 

Compare that to the H2A BR https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iesc6f1tVP4 which has the signature "tracking" aiming style of the BR and visible three-round burst. Not only that but it has that deep rhythmic thud of the three rounds leaving the clip that the BR is known for, whereas the H5 BR sounds too high-pitched(like H4's BR) and not like a BR. I hope those sounds and weapon models are placeholder because they are way off.

It's different when you actually have it in your hands. There was more than one occasion when trying to cross-map on Truth, but end up getting a 5SK or worse. The delay between individual bullets is very small, but time on target is still important.

[Riddler]

Im a little lost. Scoping in as always made shots more accurate. Why is this news upsetting?

[Zanno]

There's no penalty to hip fire guys

There's just a bonus to scoping

 

[EagleBurn]

So does this game suck or is it good? I haven't played and haven't been reading the thread.

 

You'll be able to judge for yourself soon enough

[Hitman]

I must of misunderstood you when you said there was no visible 3-round burst on the BR. However from playing it personally I did notice there to be a difference between the accuracy of the BR and DMR. I think we'll notice the difference more on bigger maps too. Also I thought people wanted the BR to have less spread so we didn't have the BR from Halo 3 again?

 

I would lower the RoF a little between the three bullets in the burst and make it audible like every BR before that. A slower RoF actually makes it take more aim skill in the BR's case as tracking and trying to land all three bullets on a strafing Spartan is the main skill involved, and in H5 with the more mobile Spartans/thruster ability I am guessing the BR will be the main if not one of the main rifles again for comp play which means it would increase the BR skill gap.

 

It's different when you actually have it in your hands. There was more than one occasion when trying to cross-map on Truth, but end up getting a 5SK or worse. The delay between individual bullets is very small, but time on target is still important.

 

Its so small I cant even notice it, needs to be lowered a bit and the sound changed so the player can hear the audible three-round burst and feel it most importantly. 343 must know the BR is not right as is.

[FlipSide]

If you haven't played the beta, please don't assume.

[Zanno]

So I discovered something while playing the beta the other day.

 

When you start the ground pound animation your spartan slowly boosts upwards just enough to clamber up to some places you wouldn't be able to get without doing this. 

 

I was able to go from from the bottoms of the bases up to the top on Truth, from bottom mid to top mix on truth and from the yard to the platform on Empire.

 

It's not as hard as a spring jump but harder than a crouch jump. You do it by jumping, pressing and holding the crouch button for less than a second and then clambering at the height of your boost. It took a while to get the timing down but I found it was easiest to do when you were standing as close to your target as possible instead of trying to sprint at it. I wasn't able to tell if sprinting increased your height when doing it.

 

 

I'm not sure if this was intentional or not on 343's part but I hope it remains in the games to preserve some of the skill jumping that clambering negates. 

Quick, hide, delete

No one must ever know this until the game comes out

 

But in all seriousness has anyone noticed the 343 pro team try this cause it seems like all those jumps are perfectly set so it's barely possible

[Zanno]

If you haven't played the beta, please don't assume.

There's been enough screenshots going around that no one needs to play the beta to know about this

 

Scoping in with the SMG cuts the spread angle by roughly 1/2 turning the gun into a rapid fire shotgun suddenly

[MATCLAN]

You make it sound so sinister, OP. A few tweaks and it won't be an issue.

 

As for Hitman, I don't understand why you want to make the BR even easier. Headshots are the most important shots in Halo and by spacing out the burst even further all you would be doing is making it easier to land headshots against weak or shieldless targets. BR Halo is an affront to the shield system and I genuinely hope that the Magnum is adjusted enough to allow for it to be the most appropriate starting weapon. If the easiest precision weapon in the game is chosen yet again as our starting weapon I will no longer consider the competitive Halo community to be genuinely competitive players.

[Zanno]

You make it sound so sinister, OP. A few tweaks and it won't be an issue.

It is sinister and even I'm pissed about it

 

Scoping already naturally makes you more accurate because it lets you decrease your sens it doesn't need to pile on more accuracy than that

 

Did no one else notice that the BR crosshair shrinks quite a bit when scoped in? It's basically flipping back and forth between H3/H2 BR depending on if you're scoped or not. This will just make battles come down to first shot again which has been a problem plaguing the game since H2. It's like they go from spread to bloom to scope, is it really going to take 6 iterations of Halo for them to not fuck up a simple concept the community wants and needs like "I want my bullets to go where exactly where I'm shooting and nowhere else"

[MrGreenWithAGun]

https://twitter.com/DonghaGM/status/547182555125268480

Darn... He found us out...

[TiberiusAudley]

Empire

 

• The Pelicans or Falcons or whatever it is flying around the cityscape outside of this map need to be moved or removed; at present, they can fly around at eye level of the players.  If you're hiding behind one of the bulges trying to push out and looking across to the other bulge, for example in a Sniper duel, one of the aircraft may fly at your eye level, drawing your gaze/reactions.
• The shadows of Spartans outside sometimes get cast on the walls, drawing a reaction of "OH SHIT THERE'S ANOTHER PLAYER HERE!"  Perhaps the lighting can be adjusted so this does not happen.
• Some of the ledges (such as the one outside the base, between the the windows) feel a bit awkward to try to reach, and movement between that ledge to the ones surrounding it feels clunky.
• Some of the sightlines from outside toward the inside of the map (toward tower 2) felt too powerful -- I would be in tower and be taken out by a Sniper in the open areas of outside.  This gave the tower a feeling of being too open while its appearance gives a sense of safety and enclosure.
• The pit just sucks to be caught in.  Limited movement options out (except toward turbine, really) that actually give you a chance to escape alive if you end up there one-shot.  Also, with no weapons there at present, there's really no legitimate reason to go down there anyway.

 

Truth

 

• While traditional Midship focuses on tower control to really dominate as a power position, I felt the Windows were the true power position on this map, thanks to the combination of sprint/thruster/clamber.  Players who attempted to control a tower were not only exposed to sightlines from you in the DMR window, but also, since you had the ability to leap to top center, were exposed to flanks from you if they were shooting down either street.  With the quickjump from bottom middle to top middle along the platforms and clambers, this also served to severely weaken the towers by giving a player quick access to the cut-off route to take down anyone in a tower.
• The DMRs placed in the Window made it too easy to resupply while employing the above tactic -- you never have to leave a power position to keep having ammo for the strongest weapon on the map (yes, stronger than the Prophet's Bane).  These need to be either swapped for Battle Rifles, or outright removed from this position.  They are too strong here.
• I actually found myself using Ground Pound a lot on this map, thanks to the power of top middle/the windows.  Even when I found myself pushing into the "carbine bubbles" if I were to duel someone there, I could leap on the ledge, charge+release groundpound and OHKO them before they could finish me off with their gun.  I feel like Ground Pound is highly underrated, undervalued ability that can see a lot of use on this map.

 

Sandbox

• I like that automatics feel useful.  However, the interference with the unscoped reticules of the players being shot (read: flinch) gets rid of one of the most important feelings in Halo: the feeling the player is in control of their own destiny (see: why people hate Bloom and bullet spread) -- by moving the reticule, it leads to the player being shot having to combat the game more than they combat the other player.  Please find some other way to handle this.  One possibility is to consider a sort of stun that slows the player's reticule movement without outright moving it -- if their aim remains steady, they can still come out ahead, but they are more prone to being out-strafed by the shooting player if they are nimble on their feet, or elect to thrust after landing their initial salvo of shots.
• I 100% love the pistol as-is.  Please do not decrease shots to kill or increase clip size.  This weapon is the perfect side-arm.  Please do not try to turn this into a blanket utility weapon.
• I like the BR as-is, although it and the DMR felt a bit easy to aim.  I think this is mostly fine for the DMR, but softening the BR aim assist wouldn't go unappreciated by me.
• The SMG melts up close, but feels like a lottery cannon when trying to use it in longer sightlines.  You might win, you might not...  Because of the flinch included, it gives the impression the gun only succeeds when you can troll the opponent's aim by shaking it all over the place.
• Sniper felt pretty smooth.  I like it, no complaints to make.
• Prophet's Bane, to me, felt pretty useless.  Most of this is because of how strong the window leap-frogging to control top middle is on Truth, but I never felt like I personally had any use for it, and I never felt like someone who killed me with it was really that effective (usually happened when I stopped playing my primary playstyle, or had spawned in a less than ideal location).

Spectator Mode

• To me, the Spectator Mode feels clunky and hard to use for actually spectating (it's basically just a glorified Theatre mode.)
• There need to be better options for switching which Player you are currently spectating in order to create a smoother, more robust experience for someone attempting to use the Spectator Mode as a medium of commentary.
• For example, the Bumper buttons were more or less non-functional in the First and Third Person camera modes (but controlled camera height in monitor / free cam mode) -- these could be better assigned to correspond to a player of Red and Blue teams respectively.  Left Bumper for Blue, Right Bumper for Red.  When pressed in conjunction with a direction on the D-Pad, it could jump the camera to players 1, 2, 3, or 4 in a 4v4 gametype.  (A different mechanism would be needed for 8v8, unless including UR, DR, DL, UL as additional options.)
• There needs to be a mini-map for the spectator to be able to quickly find where action is about to occur, in order to better present the highest impact gameplay when casting games.
• In Free Cam mode, the shields/health of the last player you spectated need to go away.  They are distracting and intrusive.
• Buttons that don't do anything need to be given an assignment.  One example could be a button that instantly cycles to a player with a power weapon (or to the next player holding a power weapon if more than one are currently doing so.)  Since this player is likely to be the one about to make a big play, this would be a great tool to quickly highlight the flashiest player in the game.

Spartan Abilities

• First off, Sprint.  It works fine in this game; the movement isn't centered around it, and I never felt like I was able to survive against decent players by sprinting away.  They would either cut me off, or leave me for a teammate to clean up while they focused on one of my teammates, knowing I couldn't help.
• Second... one I completely forgot existed until about 9 games in, then I kept trying to remember to try it in game to see what happened... and didn't actually manage to do so until about my 15th game.  Slide.  Yeah, the preceding sentence should explain my thoughts on it.  It felt unnecessary.
• Spartan Charge.  Literally did not use.
• Thruster felt great; it took me a bit to get used to and remember to use it for leaping chasms, but I found it integral to my playstyle on Truth especially.
• The Stabilizers felt more like an obstruction to me than an actual feature.  I rarely found use for them -- and usually only activated them by accident when I was a few inches from the ground.
• But I absolutely loved Ground Pound.  I felt it was the most underappreciated, underestimated ability around.  Especially on Truth, where I spent a lot of time controlling the top center platform and windows, it was very easy to ambush someone and land a Ground Pound to pick them off as they came around a corner or tried to run to a street (while I was top mid).  Even in the Carbine bubbles, if someone was trying to charge in, I could leap onto the rail, leap into the air, and ground pound them as they found me and tried to engage with a gun.  It.  Felt.  Glorious.

[Hitman]

You make it sound so sinister, OP. A few tweaks and it won't be an issue.

 

As for Hitman, I don't understand why you want to make the BR even easier. Headshots are the most important shots in Halo and by spacing out the burst even further all you would be doing is making it easier to land headshots against weak or shieldless targets. BR Halo is an affront to the shield system and I genuinely hope that the Magnum is adjusted enough to allow for it to be the most appropriate starting weapon. If the easiest precision weapon in the game is chosen yet again as our starting weapon I will no longer consider the competitive Halo community to be genuinely competitive players.

 

Read my last post, the BR's main skill is tracking the opponent and landing the majority of the shots in a game with decent movement skill/strafe as H5 seems to have(could be better but I digress) as you need to track the opponent at all times to do damage and thus land more bullets. The head-shot you are right single-shot is more skilled, but otherwise its wrong to say otherwise. The LG is one of the most skilled weapons in Quake and its a tracking style of weapon like the BR. There is a difference between being the easiest and most natural starting weapon for the game, in a R+G focused Halo like H2 or H5 the BR is superior when done right. For the record, if the BR required the whole burst to head-shot like the H2 BR then there really is no difference.

[Riddler]

The lg is not like the br at all lol

[Faeyrin]

Personally, I think the naysayers are on the pessimistic side of the coin. I'm on the other side and I say that automatic weapons benefit from an increase in accuracy when scoped in, rather than suffer a penalty when not scoped.

 

Because in actuality, the spread of the automatics while not scoped is comparable to how they've always been in the past. Inaccurate bullet hoses. There is no noticeable change in accuracy. And then we have a mechanic that allows for more accuracy on top of an unchanged pre existing mechanic.

 

Now if automatics had been really accurate in the past and then that level of accuracy was shoehorned into smart link, THAT would be a penalty.

[Cursed Lemon]

[Hitman]

The lg is not like the br at all lol

 

 I am not implying Quake's and Halo's movement are anything alike simply that the BR is close to the LG in terms of the role they play in each game's Sandbox and the requirement to track the player. I guess you could say its closer to the sentinel beam but that thing is not prominent in the Halo Sandbox nor effective at mid-range like the BR is. Point is, people shouldn't be advert to R+G weapons in an Arena-style shooter when it fits the natural combat style and longer engagements of the game. 

[Sitri]

Read my last post, the BR's main skill is tracking the opponent and landing the majority of the shots in a game with decent movement skill/strafe as H5 seems to have(could be better but I digress) as you need to track the opponent at all times to do damage and thus land more bullets. The head-shot you are right single-shot is more skilled, but otherwise its wrong to say otherwise. The LG is one of the most skilled weapons in Quake and its a tracking style of weapon like the BR. There is a difference between being the easiest and most natural starting weapon for the game, in a R+G focused Halo like H2 or H5 the BR is superior when done right. For the record, if the BR required the whole burst to head-shot like the H2 BR then there really is no difference.

 

The LG doesn't give you an instant kill for landing a single point of damage onto the head of an unarmored opponent.

 

[Hitman]

The LG doesn't give you an instant kill for landing a single point of damage onto the head of an unarmored opponent.

 

 

I know man I grew up playing Quake 3/UT and still play QL occasionally, they are both precision tracking weapons is all I am saying and those are weapons usually associated with Arena shooters. The BR is essentially the "LG" of Halo and without it there would be a gap in the Sandbox. 

[Guest]

I'm honestly lost as to what the problem is. There's no penalty to hip fire, descope counters smart scope, smart scope doesn't slow down base movement, aiming already tightened spread as some have pointed out with H2A. All they have to do is nerf the AR spread and it should be good. So what's up with the outrage?

[Beryl AU]

https://twitter.com/DonghaGM/status/547182555125268480

I doesn't like his negativity.