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Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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In replacement of sprint...

 

What if we had an "ice skate" ability where Spartans use thrusters to slide on special "shoes", giving them more speed and are able to have their gun out? Sounds wacky and outlandish but with all the crap 343 has been adding, maybe?

 

I mean...halo 5 has to be "immersive" right?

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So I just watched Episode 3 of "The Sprint":

 

I'm really starting to appreciate Quinn and it honestly seems like the Pros are taken seriously and their feedback is heavily taken into account (see shield thingies top mid on Midship remake or that jump on the other midship remake). However, during these meetings with the art team it feels like they can almost do whatever they want. Like those little things that tell you whether someone is car3. That is not ok from a gameplay perspective. That is a huge nerf to that location as you'll always be able to tell whether someone is there or not. I feel like they need some sort of Senior Pro Player Tester that also attends these Art + Design meetings to further ensure that the art team doesn't ruin anything. I really feel for Design + Testers as they come up and present a good map and are then forced to make compromises with the art team. CE's map maker(s) must have been one of the happiest devs of all time.

Also I'm not looking to hate on a guy that is already hated on heavily, but am I the only one who feels like Kevin Franklin would be better suited for a different job? Like put him in charge of BTB map design or have him come up with new "fun" gametypes like Infection. He is obviously out of place when it comes to competitive game design.

 

Other than that I'm really loving these. The little MLG flashbacks always make me smile and it's nice to get some insight. I just wish it wouldn't be solely Design + Playtest + Art. Would love to hear from the sandbox designers.

It really feels like at least Quinn and his crew are heavily interested in feedback and actually implementing it, so even though it doesn't look all that good to me atm, I will try to play as much H5 beta as possible and make a huge feedback post at the end of it in the feedback thread.

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Played 50 or so games.

 

If people care enough I'll share my thoughts on it but one thing I will say is that I had a great time playing H5 and that was with 2 maps and ho-hum weapon spawns.

 

You guys will LOVE Regret.

Post your thought on the Feedback thread that'd be great :)

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Vic seems like he is trying to make compromises with the map design guys. The french guy Sparth, while an artistic genius, seems to put art above gameplay though.

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I think my first problem was the weapon counters, although, some enjoy them, in halo 3 and still some sort in Halo MCC it is a skill to know when the weapons are spawning and it is knowledge which only certain people know which is an important layer of competitive gaming. Too many times in a game have I seen a to4 just stand for thirty seconds waiting for the sniper to spawn on Empire. 

 

The shooting for me does not feel smooth at all, feels a lot clunky, I don't know if this is because of the build we are playing, but it definitely did not have the fluidity that I have come to expect from the Halo games that I have played over the years, which is disappointing. 

 

The matchmaking speeds are good, even for a beta, but there is too many times that my teammates do not know how to shoot, I can not recite how many times I have gone +12 and lost the game because my teammates are either unranked or just much lower division to those in the game. Player count or not, there has been times where it has worked fine, so I don't know if thats a valid answer.

 

I saw someone mention it above, but the flinching when shot, is just not good in my opinion and is just not what halo is about. The clutch moments of No Scoping becomes a wild frenzy of shooting random bullets hoping you catch the enemy with one. It is almost impossible it line it up as your player shivers at every bullet him.

 

The ranking system is fine to me but I wonder if this is going to be done in seasons, or just flat out, as flat out sounds good for me, but if there is going to be constant resets or seasons, it gets boring, repetitive and stupid.

 

The sprint is annoying, bad positional play allows people to get punished, but with the sprint, it allows them 8 times out of ten to live.  I don't mind sprinting for weapons or around the map but maybe it should be disabled in battles and be allowed to be used as a mode of movement around the map, if anything. It means bad positional play can not be rectified by a single sprint away around a corner. The current 'no recharging if sprinting' is not working as there is far too many corners to run around in the maps like Empire and therefore it does matter as they just bomb around 3 corners and they are safe. For you to sprint after them it means nine times out of ten you are committing into bad play. The thrust which is good as it does not destabilise the screen or the opponent is good, and is far than enough for an in game battle!!

 

The scope is fine, but i don't see the need for the difference, the scopes were fine as they were. My problem is hat the BR feels like a one shot gun, i don't know why, but it doesn't feel like a 3 bullet BR shot. I don't know if this is a problem to how it works.

 

The game is not what we are use to, and won't be, but I would like to see some the stuff from above repaired.

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Please let me know what you guys think of this instead of the current Thruster & Sprint?

 

Option system based on damage dealt :

 

Thruster - Have a meter linked to damage dealt the more damage you do the more the meter fills. Full meter equals 1 or 2 Thrust.

 

Sprint - Have a meter linked to damage dealt the more damage you do the more the meter fills. Full meter equals the duration of Halo Reach's sprint.

 

Choosing to either use it all towards sprint or thruster or a little of both is up to you.

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Does anyone knows what the time is to get consecutive kills for your multi-kill?? In the clips and streams I have seen it looks like its even longer now then it was in halo 4? Seems way to long though.

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Vic seems like he is trying to make compromises with the map design guys. The french guy Sparth, while an artistic genius, seems to put art above gameplay though.

That's how it is sometimes. Art you can sell, excellent map design... Not so much.

 

I remember when I met with the DICE map design team about one of the Battlefield DLC's and he was explaining how they will create these incredible routes and lines of site. Real creative stuff but then art came in and asked "what about levelution" and the conversation changed. Everyone has a job to do so it's understandable to want to exceed expectations.

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That's how it is sometimes. Art you can sell, excellent map design... Not so much.

 

I remember when I met with the DICE map design team about one of the Battlefield DLC's and he was explaining how they will create these incredible routes and lines of site. Real creative stuff but then art came in and asked "what about levelution" and the conversation changed. Everyone has a job to do so it's understandable to want to exceed expectations.

 

It depends on what you want from your player base. Excellent map design will have people wanting to play on those maps for forever (see CE). Art will give you a lot of purchases on day 1. I just figured since Reach/H4's biggest problem was retaining players, they'd be focusing a bit more on design over art. Though from what I was able to tell usually the two don't talk that much to each other, so it's good to see that they keep having these meeting to discuss changes that might impact gameplay. It just feels like Art has more to say than Design, which should be the other way around.

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I'd like to know if they can toggle sprint off at some point in the course of the beta. I'd be interested to see how this game plays with thrusters but no sprint (as others have suggested)

 

Could play horribly, but it would be nice to know now.

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I'd like to know if they can toggle sprint off at some point in the course of the beta. I'd be interested to see how this game plays with thrusters but no sprint (as others have suggested)

 

Could play horribly, but it would be nice to know now.

 

The only reason it might play bad is cos of sprint sized maps. There is no doubt in my mind the game would play a 100 times better with no sprint and shooting while thrusting.

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Are you missing the point here?

 

WE NEED TO MODIFY THE BASE GAME WITH CUSTOMS AS LITTLE AS POSSIBLE.

 

Reach was mainly slated for being "bad out the box", meaning we had to basically rebuild it Custom Games wise just to make it fun.

 

That CANNOT ever happen again. We need a good game out of the box.

Competitive Halo reached its peak popularity with Halo 3 and that game is awful on default settings.

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Fuck Toggles. I want no toggles for Sprint, no toggles for Clamber or for any other ability. We need to make the experience as unified as possible, otherwise the "You are playing a completely different game than us!" card will appear again, and we will be all sorts of fucked if it does.

 

It's also a cheap way for 343 to seem like they're fixing the game. Option or not, whatever the settings are in the playlists, that's what matters. The larger the divide from the playlists and esports settings, the worst it's going to be.

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This is the top comment on the /r/XboxOne Halo 5 Beta Review Thread:


 


I'm really enjoying the game. It's beautiful, fluid, smooth, and engrossing. But I want to discuss something that no one seems to be talking about that I think is important to the Halo experience. TTK, or Time To Kill, is much lower in this game than it has ever been in any Halo, and I'm not sure how I feel about that.


 


First, let me say I'm not a Halo purist that wants every game to be exactly like Halo 2 with a new story & maps.Halo 4 gets a LOT of shit on Reddit because of a niche group of people that think that way. That's not me. I love the Sprint button and the ability to Smart Scope (Aim Down Sights or ADS as people that talk about video games on the internet call it). I don't think it turns Halo into a Call of Duty clone, just like I don't think regenerating health and a dedicated grenade button turns nearly every shooter of the past decade into a Halo clone.


However, I think there are a few mechanics which are so quintessentially Halo that removing or altering them dramatically does actually change something that makes Halo gameplay so fun. Removing a dedicated grenade button, or those high jumps, for example, would be examples of that. Another would be dramatically lowering the level of damage that the shield can take or that the standard weapons (Assault Rifle, SMG, Magnum, etc) can dish out, in order to make TTK lower.


 


Games with a low TTK include Call of Duty and Battlefield. Among equally experienced players, these games can often feel like a game of Hide & Seek - whoever sees who first gets the kill. One of the things that makes Titanfallcool is the balance between different levels of TTK - Titans have a high TTK, Pilots, Spectres, and Grunts a lower TTK. Apart from Custom matches where the shield is disabled (SWAT for example), TTK in Halo has always been somewhere in the middle between a human from Call of Duty and a Titan from Titanfall - not short enough to render strategy and weapons irrelevant, but not too long either. In Halo 5, it seems that the TTK has been tuned to be much closer to the former.


 


In Halo games, I'm used to being able to recover and get a kill even if a guy gets the drop on me. But that doesn't seem to be the case any more. I played the game for about four to five hours yesterday, and much like Call of Duty and Battlefield, it felt as if whoever saw their opponent first got the kill.


 


TL;DR: Bring on the Smart Scope, the Sprint, the Ground Pound, the Thruster Pack - but that super low TTK is just not Halo to me.


 


It scares me a lot that this comment which I believe is 100% wrong is getting so much support. This was my response to him:


 


 I'm not sure if you played Halo CE but realize that that game had the fastest primary weapon TTK of any Halo, in the 3-shot Pistol. But what made that game amazing was the low aim assist/bullet magnetism because even if you were shot first you could still kill the guy if you were able to out strafe him and out shoot him. TTK had nothing to do with it.


 


Look at the most recent Halo 2 Anniversary: The Battle Rifle has a considerably long TTK but really high aim assist/bullet magnetism which makes engagement very boring since it's nearly impossible to not 4-shot a guy.


 


EDIT: How the fuck do I get rid of all the white?


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That kid wants to fucking turn Halo into a twitch shooter...... Just what the heck is wrong with these People.

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In replacement of sprint...

 

What if we had an "ice skate" ability where Spartans use thrusters to slide on special "shoes", giving them more speed and are able to have their gun out? Sounds wacky and outlandish but with all the crap 343 has been adding, maybe?

 

I mean...halo 5 has to be "immersive" right?

Just let us keep our gun out while sprinting. The drawback to shooting while sprinting would be extreme flinch or something. (In that case, flinch would be better than bloom because you can use skill to control it.) The immersion remains, and the sprint remains discouraged.

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So I just watched Episode 3 of "The Sprint":

 

I'm really starting to appreciate Quinn and it honestly seems like the Pros are taken seriously and their feedback is heavily taken into account (see shield thingies top mid on Midship remake or that jump on the other midship remake). However, during these meetings with the art team it feels like they can almost do whatever they want. Like those little things that tell you whether someone is car3. That is not ok from a gameplay perspective. That is a huge nerf to that location as you'll always be able to tell whether someone is there or not. I feel like they need some sort of Senior Pro Player Tester that also attends these Art + Design meetings to further ensure that the art team doesn't ruin anything. I really feel for Design + Testers as they come up and present a good map and are then forced to make compromises with the art team. CE's map maker(s) must have been one of the happiest devs of all time.

 

I laughed out loud when people started going on about the "narrative team". Are you fucking kidding me? It's one thing for some guy to write a last minute backstory for his maps, just for yucks, but an entire team dedicated to coming up with these utterly meaningless backstories for multiplayer maps? If Halo 4 is anything to go by they won't even be interesting, it'll just be more "this place produces stuff that helps the war effort" or "ONI scientists worked here until something unknown came along and killed them".

 

All these videos have done so far is solidify my belief that 343 as a company is merely going to stumble into a decent competitive game, thanks entirely to Quinn and the pros. It's looking like they're the only ones in the studio with their priorities straight.

 

Also, the first time that Sparth guy talked I wasn't looking at the screen. For a second I thought 343 had hired Steve Martin's Inspector Closeau to do environment art for Halo 5.

 

Also I'm not looking to hate on a guy that is already hated on heavily, but am I the only one who feels like Kevin Franklin would be better suited for a different job? Like put him in charge of BTB map design or have him come up with new "fun" gametypes like Infection. He is obviously out of place when it comes to competitive game design.

 

 

Yeah, but saying which one would probably get me suspended again.

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I refuse to believe that a beautiful work of art can't be done on any map without altering it's intended gameplay flow.

"Art you can sell, excellent map design...not so much". Excellent map design makes for an excellent game, great art doesn't; and an excellent game sells on its own.

 

...or at least it did, back when the average gamer had an IQ above 70.

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What a dumbass. If anything, the presence of these abilities grants the player more opportunities to turn the tables on attackers than Halo has had in quite a while.

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