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Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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Okay, are we getting our terminology mixed up here?

 

Because all I'm imagining is a slayer game on Onslaught with "static", sided spawns.

Yes. Onslaught had static spawns. Wasn't Onslaught only a CTF map?

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Yeah but you're like 13 tho

Wrong. Don't get me wrong, though. I still played an assload of Halo: CE. It's a very fun game, but Halo 4 had a weird hook to it, even if it was very quirky in its design.

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I'll be the first and only to jump off a cliff and say I played more Halo 4 than I did CE. Shady Halo 4 kid.

that's a tall ass cliff...
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It's a terrible model either way.

It's not a terrible model, it's one that many game devs follow.

 

When Valve makes a new hero, they don't add it to the game immediately after it's finished. They bundle the release with a large update like they did with Arc Warden. Riot does the same thing with new champions, champion reworks, and season changes.

 

As for why 343 follows the model, there's a pretty logical answer. A while back someone on ForgeHub asked Duros why some reported bugs were still there. He said that the fixes didn't make it in time for the verification process, and when asked about why they couldn't fix it at that moment, he said something about how they can't hot-fix them.

 

Presumably, updating Halo 5, or perhaps Xbox One games in general, isn't that easy. As such, it would make sense that the dates are planned beforehand to make it as easy as possible to get a large number of changes in at once.

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Yes. Onslaught had static spawns. Wasn't Onslaught only a CTF map?

 

And there was spawn camping even in CTF (because it was a shit map made with a shit Forge).

 

Wrong. Don't get me wrong, though. I still played an assload of Halo: CE. It's a very fun game, but Halo 4 had a weird hook to it, even if it was very quirky in its design.

 

Felt like more of a weird knife to me...in the liver.

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In slayer, you can camp.

Because all I'm imagining is a slayer game on Onslaught with "static", sided spawns.

tumblr_lcur4qHcBl1qcefp8.gif

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Well I guess we are at an impasse because saying every Halo 5 map besides Orion/Regret/Overgrowth only slayer, so overgrowth strongholds, are better than Narrows is bonkers to me. I understand there is personal preference and opinion but Riptide/Overgrowth are ass and so is Pegasus which apparently is better than Narrows according to your list. 

 

I don't even like Narrows that much but it shits on every map in Halo 5 besides arguably Coliseum and Truth, which is a 3rd edition remake with adjustments for Halo 5's gameplay. 

 

Orbital is bad, yes I'll give you that but in my opinion it's slightly better than Riptide and Overgrowth and was never put into the MLG playlist. 

 

I can't see any scenario where Riptide or Overgrowth get put into rotation for Pro League or any tournaments, they are terrible and I guarantee virtually every pro will agree with me.

 

I'm not a tinfoil hat conspiracy guy or anything, but I heard there was a video in which some dude showed the concept art/maps of Overgrowth and Riptide before Halo 5 even came out.

 

But Infinity...you think Pegasus is better than Regret let alone Narrows? Come on man  :lxthul:

 

I'll happily debate but you will have to go further than just saying a map 'is ass' with no context. Narrows is an extremely linear CTF map, and an even more linear Slayer map. Top control is the definitive strategy in Slayer and bottom mid routes are pretty much copy paste in CTF. The three sections of each teams bases are pretty uninspired. The MLG Layout helped with map movement a bit by putting the Snipers on Static Timers, but all around there isn't a lot of interesting gameplay I can find without putting on nostalgia goggles.

 

Pegasus is probably on the same level of quality as Regret, but with a stronger ability to break setups because of the Blue Overshield. I do think the map is a bit too small though, makes spawns a bit cramped. I wouldn't advocate it to be played in competitive but I would hardly call it ass. The dominant power position is obviously Red, but having four people turtled in red obviously doesn't work, so you have to press forward to Rockets/Snipe/House/Carbine Bridge, which risks spawn flops. The map has some of the most punishing mispositions in all of Halo 5 because of its size.

 

Overgrowth is a big donut with a sword on it (bad), but I like the entrances and flow from the Donut to Mid/Pit. I think Blue Bend is a very easy Stronghold to hold, whereas Tram is not, and Tram rewards that with a Camo Spawn. Plasma Caster is a weapon that must be contested and Pit isn't as big a nade-fest as it is in Empire Strongholds.

 

Riptide just flows so well in my opinion. There are a lot of power positions and setup choices but I never get the feeling of 'swiss cheese' that other maps suffer from. The routes are really well crafted and a skillful Sniper (Beam Rifle) is the icing on the cake.

 

I don't think Overgrowth should be added, but I definitely think Riptide deserves a chance in the Pro League.

 

You should also NEVER judge any assets shown by 343 to judge a time frame for content/products, especially concept art. Concept artists work years in advance. There are probably people working on concept art for Halo 6 right now that won't actually be crafted into game for another 1-2 years.

 

3-4 year development time and they just barely managed to get Halo 5 out in the knick of time, while content comes out in perfect intervals at the end of the month each month? Doesn't make much sense to me.

 

Whether they held back finished content or didn't finish it at release on purpose, it's all the same thing. This whole free DLC thing gets introduced and Halo 5 just happens to launch with 2 objective gametypes?

 

Holding out content is the same exact thing as deliberately not finishing content at launch and saving it for later. Halo 5 launched with 2 objective gametypes and still has 2 objective gametypes 4 months after release. Think if someone said that 7 years ago. Both scenarios, we could have the content now, but we have to wait. I really don't see a difference once you get out of this technical crap that they aren't the same thing.

 

Explained my reasoning about content updates and gametypes below. At most, some skins/armor was held from release for the Nov/Dec. update. We are receiving new content that could not be finished for launch at this point (this is the case with tons of games' DLCs)

 

Empire or Rig over Narrows. You have some "interessting" opinions.

 

We are left with:

 

A. They hold important content back to release it later and try to keep people interested in Halo 5.

 

B. They were just to lazy or didnt think it is important to make this content and are now bringing it back step by step when its too late already for a lot of people.

 

Which one is better? I personally think both variants are complete shite.

 

I mean, is it really that ridiculous that people think they are holding content back when we get things such as Assault, a gravity hammer or classic emblems "shortly" after release? Do you really think they are actually making all of this content after release? What is so unbelieveable about holding content back to release it later? Its not like other games/companies do that aswell.

 

See above argument. I'm referring to map design specifically. Everyone knows Storm Rifles on Empire are garb :/ if that map didn't have Storm Rifles it would be one of the better maps in my opinion. Rig is dank.

 

You forgot about option C:

 

C. 343 analyzed statistics and saw that very, very few players ever touched objective gametypes. Play testing 2-4 more gametypes would have taken DRASTIC time and resources, especially with their tedious approach in H5 with Pro Team. Look how excellent Strongholds and CTF play... that is due to hours of testing and tweaking. A lot of that would have been watered down because of multiple gametype testing, and who knows, maybe that intensive testing really did mean they didn't have enough time.

 

TL;DR: The amount of time/resources that would have been put into objectives wasn't worth the payoff of people playing them. "tons of competitive gametypes variants" isn't exactly a selling point either.

 

This point will also be proven when other gametypes never come. I wouldn't be surprised if Assault/Ball is the only new gametype they ever introduce.

 

So you didn't play h3 back in the day?

 

Tread lightly with Lemon and H3  :prayers:

 

You guys are pretty good at avoiding questions that weaken your argument lol.

 

 

See above for argument. I'm never shy of explaining my reasoning.

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Yeah but you're like 13 tho

She's like 17. (I only know cause we have the same birthday).

I so wish I could have been a part of the old Halo 2 Online days. I didn't play Halo online until 3. But I'll always remember the days of playing Halo 2 multiplayer with friends. And kicking those friends collective asses.

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She's like 17. (I only know cause we have the same birthday).

Compromise; she's 15

 

 

I so wish I could have been a part of the old Halo 2 Online days. I didn't play Halo online until 3. But I'll always remember the days of playing Halo 2 multiplayer with friends. And kicking those friends collective asses.

You know how they say limitation breeds creativity?

 

Add that to the first widely popular online console experience in history, and that's Halo 2 in a nutshell.

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Thats awesome, I am the same way.  I have almost 5.5K kills with the Pistol, 74 with the AR, 34 with the Storm and 5 with the SMG.  The only time I use those weapons is when I am out of ammo with the Pistol.

well, considering how the game plays, that seems considerably stupid from a strategic standpoint.

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Compromise; she's 15

 

 

 

You know how they say limitation breeds creativity?

 

Add that to the first widely popular online console experience in history, and that's Halo 2 in a nutshell.

The only creativity we had was changing our names to like "10,000 Mexicans" or "5 Fat guys",and laughing about it afterwards. We were terrible terrible people.

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Fine, as long as we get an option to play the old infec.....

 

 

Ugh.

 

 

Also angry joe put halo 5 on his most disappointing games of 2015 list, bringing up the req system and how it will likely never go away and only get expanded on, and he's so fucking right it makes me want to weep for the future of this series, and by weep I mean a heavy cry sob, with drool and snot and everything. And the majority of this fanbase will go along with it, only this tiny minority will be aware of what has happened to this once respectable franchise. (Weeping commences)

if people buying REQs to use in a non-competitive setting, and those REQ purchases drive free content and/or competitive halo prizes, AND that makes you weep, I don't know what to tell you.

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I think it really just depends on the game and the map. I honestly felt like Sanctuary played slayer better in Reach than it did H2A because of the spawns. MLG Narrows was better than default Narrows for slayer due to the spawn setup. However Midship and Heretic both play better with dynamic spawns despite being symmetrical due to the size of the spawn areas and general map geometry. The tendency seems to be large symmetrical maps that have enough area to typically spawn you outside of instant death play better with static spawns because it can be used as a motivator for map movement/control and the dynamic spawns actually encourage slow and campy play on these larger maps due to the fear of spawning someone inside of your setup if you push up too far without actually flipping the map. It doesn't work when the map is so small if you lose control it turns into Wizard 4s while the other team has control of all power ups or an onslaught spawn killing simulator.

Midship and wizard work well with dynamic spawns because those maps have a circular flow to them. People generally move around the map, not across it. This creates 4 general spawn areas. This means that even if you vacate an area people won't spawn directly behind you as the map is a circle, not a rectangle.

 

Whike maps like narrows have a linear flow. People generally only move across the map. Forwards and backwards. This creates only 2 spawn zones. People can only spawn in front of you or behind you.

 

I believe both coliseum and Fathom fit more into the linear category than circular category and as such should use static spawns in slayer.

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Midship and wizard work well with dynamic spawns because those maps have a circular flow to them. People generally move around the map, not across it. This creates 4 general spawn areas. This means that even if you vacate an area people won't spawn directly behind you as the map is a circle, not a rectangle.

 

Whike maps like narrows have a linear flow. People generally only move across the map. Forwards and backwards. This creates only 2 spawn zones. People can only spawn in front of you or behind you.

 

I believe both coliseum and Fathom fit more into the linear category than circular category and as such should use static spawns in slayer.

I think fathom is more of a Circukar map. Coliseum is a Pit remake and should have Static spawn and an overshield in bottom mid instead of scatter.

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The only creativity we had was changing our names to like "10,000 Mexicans" or "5 Fat guys",and laughing about it afterwards. We were terrible terrible people.

Don't forget making a profile named "yourself".

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Wait are people really mad about the req system? It is 1000% than the old "buy three different map packs" system of post-launch monetization and I dig opening packs, though I wish the cosmetic items were more varied (also that we had more weapon skins than visors but whatever)

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@@Infinity I honestly feel like you are a bit out of touch with this community sometimes.

 

Coliseum is a Pit remake

Enough internet for today :)

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