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Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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The Slayer playlist is not mainly comprised of Bronze-Platinum players. I would say that Bronze-Gold players combined do not search Slayer nearly as much as the Platinum-Low Onyx population on average, and that's obviously discluding the people who play the playlist the most, mid-high onyx to champion level players (individually not as an aggregate because there are less players in that pool obviously).

 

I just don't like seeing ranked slayer being taken and turned into a social only playlist, why can't it be both? I've seen another person or two in addition to you say slayer is just an easier champion, and yes that's true but at the same time it's the second hardest champion in the game to get. It's also only slayer gametypes which is important. 

 

But why is that a problem? Excluding the champions right now this season, it's very hard to get a team arena champion so I think eliminating slayer poses a problem in that regard...should Champion ranks be comprised of 80% Pros, Pros' alts, AMs? Idk I just really don't like the idea of taking out ranked slayer at all. 

 

It's not like adding social slayer is going to make it hard to find games in ranked slayer at all...

 

So you think that Champions (Literally the top 200 people in the World) should include people outside of Pros, "known" players, AMs, etc.? Thats like saying they should let Junior hockey take spots in the Hockey Hall of Fame. Onyx exists for competitive, skilled players. I think most people would agree that Champion, by definition, should be reserved for only the very peak of competition. I don't get this whole "everyone should be able to get to Champion" mentality.

 

As for rank distributions, Bronze, silver, gold and plat are by far the majority of players. Theres a graph floating around here showing Onyx-Champ is like 10% of people, if that.

 

Lastly - Champion in Slayer is literally a joke. It may be 'the second hardest Champion to get", but I can seriously hop into it and play 3-4 games every couple of days and get champ. I can avoid the playlist for days or even weeks before I'm knocked out of the top 200. Just look at the CSR threshold for Slayer (Usually 2000) compared to Team Arena's (~2400) VERY few of the top people in the game even touch Slayer (they either play scrims or Arena), unless they are searching alone. Then there are those "Slayer only" try-hards who can only get champ in Slayer, and get shut-out in Arena when faced with the real competition.

 

My point is If we have to choose between a Ranked Slayer and a Social Slayer, I think it would be most beneficial overall to go with Social. That small group of "Slayer" kids are the biggest group of people that will get butthurt over this.

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Did someone getting a Slayer 50 or a Swat 50 in Halo 3 take away from everyone's MLG 50's? I don't think that was the case at all. 

 

 

Yes, albeit not directly. A 50 in MLG was still impressive but the less playlists that are ranked, the more meaning a rank holds.

 

This sums it up, although some opinions have changed most of it remains the same.

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I don't think anyone against MMR in social is arguing that pub stomping won't happen. There will definitely be lobbies where douchebags are tearing up noobs. But in the grand majority of matches you might have one or two "good" players mixed with a bunch of "bad" players.

 

Anyone that is truly good enough to have a massive impact on the game (esp. 5v5), to the point of noobs noticing (and then actually caring), will not be staying in the Social playlist for long. You think there enough exceptional players in this game (maybe 1% compared to ALL those Bronze-plat people) to have a meaningful impact on noobs' experience of the playlist?

 

There will be lopsided games, but the point is that nobody cares. If there's no ranks, stat tracking, etc. there's practically no reason to care. You have to weigh all the benefits of removing MMR (Instant games, better connections, can play with friends of all skill levels, not have to sweat every game, etc etc.) to the occasional lobby that will have a guy going balls to the wall, and noobs actually caring about it. 

 

I have to say it again - the players who are skilled enough to actually ruin games for noobs don't play social very often. People who are that good get bored after one or two games. I can think of one person who is decent at this game and likes to stomp noobs all day - Lt. Wasp. - a rare occurring breed of douchebaggery. If you think there are enough Lt Wasps out there to ruin the most populated playlist (tens of thousands of players still), then God help us.

Wasp Almighty now bro  :kappa:  and you are using the term "good" very loosely there....He gets carried by his teammates in Arena. 

 

I also don't think shitting on kids who aren't good in social automatically makes you a douchebag....are you supposed to let them kill you or grab power weapons? 

 

 

There's obviously a difference between waiting 30-60 minutes in a lobby so you can get a team of 12 for warzone (Lt Wasp) or running 4's in social consistently teabagging and shooting dead bodies than just being better than the other team and winning. 

 

I feel like there is a lot of "shaming" going on for people who are good...it's like Halo matchmaking and social constructs have gotten super PC and pathetic....Everyone needs their "safe space" I guess :ghost:  :lxthul:

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Must admit ive had Halo 5 for about 10 days and I'm mostly playing the Slayer playlist to get a grasp on the game, and its difficult to enjoy when you match up against overly competitive players and there is basically no true playlist to to casually get yourself into the game, you basically have to dive straight into Arena playlists or NTN, or jump straight into Warzone when you wont exactly have anything.

 

Social playlists not only give that divide of the casual and competitive player, but it also allows people to kinda try the game. Getting people into the Halo market wont be by making it super competitive, but instead making it enjoyable. Halo 3 and Reach, even 4 eventually were quite entertaining because you had that seperation and divide if the two.

 

Switch Slayer to a social playlist and maybe bring in something else to replace it, maybe even Team Objective on a trial run. Make the game appealing to people who might have fun messing about and having a good time, rather than getting pissed off with constant callouts going through their ears from Platinum divison players who think this is the MLG playlist.

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I feel like there is a lot of "shaming" going on for people who are good...it's like Halo matchmaking and social constructs have gotten super PC and pathetic....Everyone needs their "safe space" I guess :ghost:  :lxthul:

There's no shaming against good players. Most people just don't want to be placed against sweaty people constantly. Being sweaty isn't a bad thing either. Much like being a casual isn't.

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The same people arguing against social because of "pubstomping" are the ones that play on 12 man squads in Warzone. Sit down.

 

I'm obviously the one who is defending the current social, and I almost exclusively search Solo Arena, and play Warzone or Social Playlists with friends.

 

Calm down.

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There's no shaming against good players. Most people just don't want to be placed against sweaty people constantly. Being sweaty isn't a bad thing either. Much like being a casual isn't.

>being sweaty isn't a bad thing

 

>consistently shits on sweaty people

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Wasp Almighty now bro  :kappa:  and you are using the term "good" very loosely there....He gets carried by his teammates in Arena. 

 

I also don't think shitting on kids who aren't good in social automatically makes you a douchebag....are you supposed to let them kill you or grab power weapons? 

 

 

There's obviously a difference between waiting 30-60 minutes in a lobby so you can get a team of 12 for warzone (Lt Wasp) or running 4's in social consistently teabagging and shooting dead bodies than just being better than the other team and winning. 

 

I feel like there is a lot of "shaming" going on for people who are good...it's like Halo matchmaking and social constructs have gotten super PC and pathetic....Everyone needs their "safe space" I guess :ghost:  :lxthul:

 

Once again I'm not saying there won't be Champs going into Social and eradicating noobs left and right and going 55+KDA in a lobby here or there. The whole reason good players want the playlist is NOT to try and do that every game. Personally, I just want to go in and chill. I'm not saying I'm going to let noobs kill me, I'm saying I'm not going to be going full-sweat on them every game for hours on end. I'd say most good players want the same thing. A place to run around mindlessly and try to groundpound, or ninja, or try new weapons, or go for commendations/REQ points, whatever. Frankly I would love a playlist I could go into after a night of drinking/blazing and just chill out without worrying about my rank, stats, or getting shit on.

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>being sweaty isn't a bad thing

 

>consistently shits on sweaty people

I don't rag on them, as much as I do the weapons they use. However, when I get gunned down for the third time by an AR by some kid who thinks he's top shit, and t-bags me/shittalks, of course I'm going to go after the player and his weapon. 

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So you think that Champions (Literally the top 200 people in the World) should include people outside of Pros, "known" players, AMs, etc.? Thats like saying they should let Junior hockey take spots in the Hockey Hall of Fame. Onyx exists for competitive, skilled players. I think most people would agree that Champion, by definition, should be reserved for only the very peak of competition. I don't get this whole "everyone should be able to get to Champion" mentality.

 

As for rank distributions, Bronze, silver, gold and plat are by far the majority of players. Theres a graph floating around here showing Onyx-Champ is like 10% of people, if that.

 

Lastly - Champion in Slayer is literally a joke. It may be 'the second hardest Champion to get", but I can seriously hop into it and play 3-4 games every couple of days and get champ. I can avoid the playlist for days or even weeks before I'm knocked out of the top 200. Just look at the CSR threshold for Slayer (Usually 2000) compared to Team Arena's (~2400) VERY few of the top people in the game even touch Slayer (they either play scrims or Arena), unless they are searching alone. Then there are those "Slayer only" try-hards who can only get champ in Slayer, and get shut-out in Arena when faced with the real competition.

 

My point is If we have to choose between a Ranked Slayer and a Social Slayer, I think it would be most beneficial overall to go with Social. That small group of "Slayer" kids are the biggest group of people that will get butthurt over this.

First of all it was hyperbolized to some extent, but if Arena was basically the only ranked team playlist then it would be filled with mostly pros and their alts, AMs and the best online MM kids. 

 

So you think Champions, 200 people, should be Hall of Fame level analogous players? That makes for a terrible ranking system. The highest level will be achieve only by 150 people playing on multiple accounts with no ranks for players who like playing Swat and Breakout or for people who play slayer. 

 

Obviously Arena is more respectable and a harder playlist competition wise, but I've played Pros and good competition in Slayer. You are making it out like Slayer is full of mentally inept players when in fact most of the champions/high onyx players have respectable ranks in Arena as well. 

 

Last season I had around 2100 in arena at my peak in that playlist and my slayer was mid 2100's though I didn't play it as often or with my best To4 consistently. Yes Slayer champion is easier and there are some "bad" higher onyx/champ players in Slayer...but that's a result of the Grind To Win ranking system too. 

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We do we miss 8 man FFA's wtf??

6 man manages to be more shit than 8 man.

 

As it turns out, reducing the # of players doesn't fix bad mechanics and bad spawns.

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I don't rag on them, as much as I do the weapons they use. However, when I get gunned down for the third time by an AR by some kid who thinks he's top shit, and t-bags me/shittalks, of course I'm going to go after the player and his weapon.

 

I mean half your posts are about "sweaty" kids in arena and how they suck

 

Like damn I guess competition shouldnt be allowed in a ranked playlist lmao, like man my only problem with sweatbags is when I'm down a teammate

 

But like the other guy was saying, i find it funny y'all are afraid of social pubstomps when we do the same shit in warzone

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There's no shaming against good players. Most people just don't want to be placed against sweaty people constantly. Being sweaty isn't a bad thing either. Much like being a casual isn't.

"Most people just don't want to be placed against sweaty people constantly"

 

You said it yourself. Yet that is the punishment for being above-average or good in arena, then when you go into social it's not exactly what any sane person would consider "social"

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Wow this Social debate is still going on?

I think we're just all so insanely baffled that ANYONE is defending how "social" currently works that we can't let it go lol.

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I mean half your posts are about "sweaty" kids in arena and how they suck

 

Like damn I guess competition shouldnt be allowed in a ranked playlist lmao, like man my only problem with sweatbags is when I'm down a teammate

I don't recall a time where I've said they suck. My last post on sweaty kids was me bitching about the lack of social playlists and me being forced to play with sweaty people constantly. :P I didn't blame them, despite people's thoughts that I did, I just don't wanna play sweatily, constantly. In the same breath, I never said competition should never be allowed. I just want a social playlist, ACTUAL social, so I don't need to be in that environment constantly.

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Guys. Just remember that Destiny has the same problem that Halo 5 is having right now. Bungie decided to secretly implement SBMM for all playlists for Destiny which caused an absolute shitstorm in the communtiy. Long search times for the above average skill players, lag because of search reprioritization, and incredibly sweaty matches which caused players to tune out after 3 matches were just some of the downfalls of this.

 

Dudes. This social debate frankly is fucking ********. No one wants hidden MMR for social playlists, social is where everyone just sits back in their lazyboy, pop open a beer, and kick their feet back. Yeah sure you can create the illusion of "no ranks" by making the ranks invisible, but the players is going to wake up sooner or later and realize that he is fighting the same skilled foes that he would find in a ranked game.  Every single game I had played of Halo 5 everyone was on the same level as me. Which just isn't fun after a while. Yes, I do enjoy a stimulating match where I am pitted against a foe who is at the same level of skill that I am. But do I want to play that scenario EVERY. SINGLE. FUCKING. GAME? Hell no. "Just boot up Warzone!" I don't like BTB Fiesta with paid powerweapon burncards ;)

 

"Everything in moderation, including moderation" is a quote that 343i needs to have on the walls. No one wants to exclusively play Warzone, no one wants to exclusively play arena, no one wants to have sweaty matches and tune out after 3 tryhard games, and no one wants to feel as though there are no other options to enjoy a game. I ended up deleting Halo 5 because I flat out wasn't having fun, and I don't feel the urge to comeback unless 343 gets their shit together.

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New opinion: Social doesn't work in Halo 5 because there aren't any social maps or gametypes.

 

Social maps in H3: Standoff, Last Resort, Valhalla, Sandtrap, Rat's Nest, High Ground

Social gametypes in H3: CTF, KotH, Slayer, One flag, One bomb, Grifball, Infection, Action Sack

 

For Halo 5, everything played in social is what's played in competitive.

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6 man manages to be more shit than 8 man.

 

As it turns out, reducing the # of players doesn't fix bad mechanics and bad spawns.

343i needs to just go back to the drawing board and fix bad mechanics. At the end of the day, FFA showcases the true nature of game. Its just you, your skills, the map, and how you're gonna beat the 5 players in a mad dash to the top of the scoreboards. The problem with 8 man FFA is that games are sporadic, cluttered, and cause paranoia. Halo 5 with 8 player FFA, is flat out one of the least fun games I have ever played in my entire life, and im not exaggerating in the slightest. If anything 343i needs to figure out how to slow the pace of the game without sacrificing skill in Halo 5.

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