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Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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Social is intended to be a casual, fun and "social" experience you can play with your friends without needing every one of your friends to be halo wizards. In order to have that you need:

 

1. Loose MM restrictions.

2. More than just one social playlist.

3. No stat tracking.

4. Intelligent gametype planning.

 

Despite the opinions of some of you here, setting up close matches for social is not helping. It just fosters a competitive environment, which is not what social is about. I think there should be some restrictions but they need to be loose. However, the larger issue is that 343 has failed to create an overall social environment so far, and never has in any of their games.

 

Consider this: there's always going to be three (well, at least three) types of players:

 

1. Casual players who just want to hop on and have a good time.

2. Competitive players who want close matches.

3, Competitive players who have gotten good at the game to pub stomp.

 

There will ALWAYS be players who want to pub stomp. No matter if you have no ranked, no social, or whatever, there's always going to be people who want to pub stomp. Attempting to stop pub stomping by using MMR is a lost cause now that it's so easy to create new accounts.

 

This is why you need several social playlists. Right now everyone who wants to pub stomp is centered in the one social playlist, and as a result regardless of how the matches are setup a lot of matches are ending up being incredibly sweaty, which is not what you want.

 

No stat tracking is a no brainier. I don't think this will really help much but it can't hurt either.

 

Lastly, the gametypes need to be planned well. Just like you didn't play Valhalla slayer on the pro circuit in 08, you shouldn't be playing all of the arena gametypes in the social lists. Plan the gametypes appropriately and intelligently to foster a social and fun atmosphere (i.e. It was a lot easier for Headhunter on Powerhouse to be social than Countdown CTF wasn't it?).

 

Honestly every Halo since H3 has failed at this, and it's a cyclical problem. Lack of a fun experience drives casuals away which makes the games increasingly filled with competitive players which further drives casuals away. I would even posit that every Halo since Reach has failed to even have a healthy casual population a month out from launch. Play H4 BTB if you don't believe me.

 

We need a strong social experience off launch if we want to keep the greater populace engaged in the game.

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I hate the center-screen reticule.

The gun models are EVEN LARGER now thanks to that, and it looks more unnatural from an #IMMERSION standpoint.

 

2Boss no... and we had so much in common!

 

I like it because it allows information on the HUD to be in a relatively equidistant position from the cross-hair so looking for information near the top of your screen isn't as tedious as it used to be. As per the gun models, well I like looking at guns.

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2Boss no... and we had so much in common!

 

I like it because it allows information on the HUD to be in a relatively equidistant position from the cross-hair so looking for information near the top of your screen isn't as tedious as it used to be. As per the gun models, well I like looking at guns.

 

:(

I just never really had an issue with it. Just seems to clutter the screen more with said gun models. Imagine dual-wielding with a centered reticle. I very much prefer a clean HUD rather than a cluttered one (including gun models), I can focus more on what's going on in front of me.

 

Somewhat related, but THANK GOD BF4 added the ability to customize what shows on your HUD in an update. That game is the definition of "cluttered in-game UI."

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1. You are acting like your definition of 'social experience' is religiously and exclusively correct. It isn't. We're discussing two opinions so stop insisting that one experience is definitive fact.

 

2. Halo 5's ranking system balances mixed parties. Once again your logic is completely backwards: If you are vouching for random matchmaking, then you are essentially asking for the potential for pub stomping. You are okay with pub stomping entire teams but you want to protect your friend who is going to be stomped in a Skill based system? Make up your mind. 

 

3. No they don't, because they aren't Ranked. Ranks should be the only thing that are incentivizing you to win, other than internal desires which are an issue with the player itself, not the system.

 

4. This is an issue, but not with Social. It is an issue with Halo 5's matchmaking parameters. They should originally stay tight and open up more and more as matches cannot be found.

 

 

Social Playlists require three things:

  • Fast matches
  • No Ranks
  • No Stat Tracking

If you are insisting that Social means making winning easier at a random pace, then I don't know what else I can say to get through to all of you. There are negatives with MMR-Based Social that can be fixed (stats, search parameters), there are negatives with Random-MM Social that cannot (pub stomping).

 

The argument is silly for other games like COD/Battlefield because the skill gap in those games is low and the player count per team is much larger; more players means more room for inconsistency with matching (hence why BTB feels more 'Social'. Halo 5 at its core is a competitive game, one of the most competitive default Halo games to date, so this whole 'close matches = bad for social' is really just a testament to you vouching for how competitive Halo 5 is, in my opinion.

 

As a personal example, I play BTB and Social Slayer with @ a lot. We are pretty far apart in skill, so regardless of whether or not the matches are close, neither of us really care if we lose. We'll banter about how 5v5 Overgrowth is pure ebola, but losing a match is the least of our concerns.

I cannot Fathom how you can defend the "social" system in Halo 5, I Regret that I am going to have to dismantle your argument and show you the Truth of the matter because there has been an Overgrowth of complaints and illogical stances towards it. Okay I'm done with that lol

 

But seriously I don't know how you are defending the social playlists and arguing for them being fine. 

 

You list 3 points of what you personally think a social playlist/system should consist of and it's hilarious because Halo 5's social fails 2.5-3 of those points. 

 

1. Fast Matches: Well once you get a high MMR/hidden social CSR or whatever, in a said playlist the matchmaking time slows down considerably...it's not horrible but after I went like 25-0 then roughly 35/40-3 in Gameday Slayer my matchmaking speed was moderately slow each search. so that's half correct in this system I'd say. Oh I forgot I can never even find a game of big team battle unless I play with 4-5 people who never played it or were platinum level when it was ranked. 

 

2. No Ranks: This is completely wrong because there are hidden ranks due to MMR or even a hidden CSR for each social playlist...I'm fairly certain the latter is the case ON TOP of the stupid MMR bullshit. Just because there is no visible rank doesn't negate the fact that there are ranks, and actually makes it worse because it may as well be ranked at that point (looking at you BTB/weekend snipers)

 

3. No Stat-tracking: Social and Halo 5 does track stats so you are wrong about this point or it contradicts your view on the Halo 5 social system. Each game counts towards Arena win %, counts as a game played and a win/loss, counts the kills, assists, and deaths just the same as ranked arena playlists towards your total count. 

 

I don't think you personally caring about losing games is a factor or valid point for this argument. A more valid point would be that if you are a top 1% player you SHOULD win 90%+ of your games in a social playlist. There should not be this participation trophy bubble wrap buffer for 50-75% of the population to not face against the top players in social. 

 

Evidence: Halo 3 social was extremely popular, even MCC social team slayer and BTB are probably the most popular playlists and they don't have hidden MMR/Ranks to divide up a social population. Saying "I don't care about losing/it's just social" works in the reverse as well because the newer/lower skilled players who get stomped are not deterred from continuing to play social, because it's fucking social. You get a mix of skill levels. As currently constituted I basically have to semi-stack my team to play gameday slayer for example, and when I was playing with one weak link, a gold-plat level player at and the rest of the team was good, we lost a game. So is it good that the social in this game doesn't allow me to play with lower skilled players on my own team if I care about winning? 

 

Social in this game is just not fun, simple. This ranking system that you think works so well...does, but only for the average to below average players. This ranking system (talking about ranked now) punishes any player that is above average that isn't a pro or top .1% matchmaking kid that runs with a team. It even punishes them with molasses ass search times. 

 

 

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I cannot Fathom how you can defend the "social" system in Halo 5, I Regret that I am going to have to dismantle your argument and show you the Truth of the matter because there has been an Overgrowth of complaints and illogical stances towards it. Okay I'm done with that lol

 

But seriously I don't know how you are defending the social playlists and arguing for them being fine.

 

You list 3 points of what you personally think a social playlist/system should consist of and it's hilarious because Halo 5's social fails 2.5-3 of those points.

 

1. Fast Matches: Well once you get a high MMR/hidden social CSR or whatever, in a said playlist the matchmaking time slows down considerably...it's not horrible but after I went like 25-0 then roughly 35/40-3 in Gameday Slayer my matchmaking speed was moderately slow each search. so that's half correct in this system I'd say. Oh I forgot I can never even find a game of big team battle unless I play with 4-5 people who never played it or were platinum level when it was ranked.

 

2. No Ranks: This is completely wrong because there are hidden ranks due to MMR or even a hidden CSR for each social playlist...I'm fairly certain the latter is the case ON TOP of the stupid MMR bullshit. Just because there is no visible rank doesn't negate the fact that there are ranks, and actually makes it worse because it may as well be ranked at that point (looking at you BTB/weekend snipers)

 

3. No Stat-tracking: Social and Halo 5 does track stats so you are wrong about this point or it contradicts your view on the Halo 5 social system. Each game counts towards Arena win %, counts as a game played and a win/loss, counts the kills, assists, and deaths just the same as ranked arena playlists towards your total count.

 

I don't think you personally caring about losing games is a factor or valid point for this argument. A more valid point would be that if you are a top 1% player you SHOULD win 90%+ of your games in a social playlist. There should not be this participation trophy bubble wrap buffer for 50-75% of the population to not face against the top players in social.

 

Evidence: Halo 3 social was extremely popular, even MCC social team slayer and BTB are probably the most popular playlists and they don't have hidden MMR/Ranks to divide up a social population. Saying "I don't care about losing/it's just social" works in the reverse as well because the newer/lower skilled players who get stomped are not deterred from continuing to play social, because it's fucking social. You get a mix of skill levels. As currently constituted I basically have to semi-stack my team to play gameday slayer for example, and when I was playing with one weak link, a gold-plat level player at and the rest of the team was good, we lost a game. So is it good that the social in this game doesn't allow me to play with lower skilled players on my own team if I care about winning?

 

 

Why would you care about winning/losing there is no reward, nothing happens. If you want to tryhard in social is your problem none is forcing you to do it.

Why why are people this thick. Is all in your head, admit that you want to stomp and move on.

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Why would you care about winning/losing there is no reward, nothing happens. If you want to tryhard in social is your problem none is forcing you to do it.

Why why are people this thick. Is all in your head, admit that you want to stomp and move on.

 

ffs man, the point is that the games in H5 social are incredibly competitive/difficult and I'm constantly getting matched against people at my skill level, which makes each game a 50-49 sweat-fest.  

 

I don't want to pub stomp, I want to effing relax; I don't mind losing some games 20-50 and winning other games 50-20, as long as I can goof around and use new weapons and try for ridiculous ground pound kills etc.  There's a reason that literally every other Halo multiplayer has had true social playlists

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 I want to effing relax ....  goof around and use new weapons and try for ridiculous ground pound kills etc.  

 

To be fair that is entirely a choice you are making whether the games are ranked or not.  

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To be fair that is entirely a choice you are making whether the games are ranked or not.  

 

It's very difficult to do fun stuff like this in ranked games because I'll get teamshotted in 0.7 seconds.  In social games, even the tryhards tend to be more relaxed

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I hate the center-screen reticule.

The gun models are EVEN LARGER now thanks to that, and it looks more unnatural from an #IMMERSION standpoint.

 

If the gun models weren't the size of refrigerators, would you still like a cross-hair that isn't centered? It wasn't something detrimental enough to me to quit playing h3 but it still doesn't make sense to me to sacrifice it's position to cater to whatever visuals are on the "horizon", if that's indeed the intent.

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I hate the center-screen reticule.

The gun models are EVEN LARGER now thanks to that, and it looks more unnatural from an #IMMERSION standpoint.

Halo 1 had a centered reticle, and relatively small viewmodels.

Halo 2 and 3 had uncentered reticles, and had massive viewmodels.

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Whether or not something is social has more to do with your approach to playing than anything else.

if you get stomped in a game, do the stomping in a game, or play a tight match why does it matter?  How sweaty you get in an unranked playlist is entirely up to you, dont blame the matchmaking system for that, there are plenty of other things you can blame the MM system for.

 

Obviously the search parameters in social lists should be pretty loose to ensure quick games, which will naturally cause the outcome of said games to vary more than a ranked list, but to suggest that they should basically be thrown out altogether seems misguided.  343 does need to correct this.

 

If i could prioritize matching parameters they would be like this:

 

Social:

 

MM speed

Connection quality

Gametype variety

Team Balance

 

Ranked:

 

Team Balance

Connection Quality

Gametype Variety

MM Speed

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Why would you care about winning/losing there is no reward, nothing happens. If you want to tryhard in social is your problem none is forcing you to do it.

Why why are people this thick. Is all in your head, admit that you want to stomp and move on.

Stats are still tracked in social and that's completely counter productive to what the playlist is trying to achieve.

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There seems to be a spilt in the fan base in terms of OG Halo VS Halo with Sprint + Abilities. It would be cool if 343 established something like the COD world. The have the Modern warfare series, black ops series, Ghosts, World at war.

 

I know it doesnt make sense for it in Halo as the sprint etc is seen as equipment upgrades that happen over time. But it would of been a cool Idea. One series being Halo 1,2 and 3 and another series being Halo reach, Halo 4 and Halo 5.

 

We could swap series' then every two years or what ever the timeline for a new game is

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There seems to be a spilt in the fan base in terms of OG Halo VS Halo with Sprint + Abilities. It would be cool if 343 established something like the COD world. The have the Modern warfare series, black ops series, Ghosts, World at war. I know it doesnt make sense for it in Halo as the sprint etc is seen as equipment upgrades that happen over time. But it would of been a cool Idea. One series being Halo 1,2 and 3 and another series being Halo reach, Halo 4 and Halo 5. We could swap series' then every two years or what ever the timeline for a new game is

To be fair, we "kinda" do that already. We have the Spartan: Ass series which came in during 2013 and early 2015, and Halo Wars 2 is taking a frontseat this year. I know what you mean in terms of genres. Make a game series like Halo 1-3, then switch it with gameplay like 4-5. I'd like that, but it'd honestly seem a little... I dunno, fractured? Especially with only one dev team. Unless MS hired two devs for FPS specific Halo titles, I don't see this happening as you wish.

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Is getting spawn camped inside your base fun? Being on respawn three quarters of the game? No?

 

Newsflash: "social is an attitude" only works if the other team agreed to it!

 

I cannot comprehend how this is a hard concept. Ultra competitive games are not conducive to a relaxed environment. Yes some people want to pub stomp but the majority of people are just looking for a place with a more relaxed environment than ranked. Have you never had friends over to play Halo? They don't want to jump into MLG. They just want to get on and play crap like sand trap slayer and pick up a few kills while fooling around. They certainly don't want to spend the entire game on respawn either.

 

It has nothing to do with attitude. I challenge any of you holding onto this idea to sit through a game of Warzone where three quarters of your team has quit and the other team is farming you instead of finishing the game and then see if you had fun.

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There seems to be a spilt in the fan base in terms of OG Halo VS Halo with Sprint + Abilities. It would be cool if 343 established something like the COD world. The have the Modern warfare series, black ops series, Ghosts, World at war. I know it doesnt make sense for it in Halo as the sprint etc is seen as equipment upgrades that happen over time. But it would of been a cool Idea. One series being Halo 1,2 and 3 and another series being Halo reach, Halo 4 and Halo 5. We could swap series' then every two years or what ever the timeline for a new game is

 

Honestly I would just be too confused if they did that, because I don't really know what I like from a Halo game all that much. I'm really enjoying Halo 5 with it's thrusters (love them), but I also enjoy going back and playing something with friends like CE or H2:A. I just cant personally decide what is better so I'm pretty much playing whatever I enjoy more (and so far h5 over MCC).

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Why would you care about winning/losing there is no reward, nothing happens. If you want to tryhard in social is your problem none is forcing you to do it.

Why why are people this thick. Is all in your head, admit that you want to stomp and move on.

Apparently you can't comprehend what I'm trying to say or why the social and Halo 5 is a joke.

 

First of all Winning/Losing does impact your record and total win percentage, some people care about that (top 3 in FFA should be a win on a side note). If social did not track stats then it would be way less sweaty with less incentive to try. 

 

Admit that I want to stomp? Well I mean I enjoy competition, even in social, but I feel like I shouldn't play on the same level of competition or higher based off HIDDEN RANKS that they constantly track, it's ridiculous. 

 

Here is why it's a problem...because social should be fun, more relaxed and allow me/others to play with their friends that aren't as good who they normally wouldn't in ranked playlists. But because I was a champion 2 months ago in weekend snipers, I play pros (matched danoxide, Shooter) and known or sweaty MM kids virtually every game. They just might as well bring back ranked weekend playlists at that point. 

 

I cannot find a game in BTB 90% of the time and it takes upwards of 15 mins to find a game. I won too many games in social BTB and now I'm punished by not finding a game in a social playlist and only matching teams of 6-8, usually full teams, trying their hearts out to win in social. 

 

So it's not really about the "pub-stomping"'s more about the fact that this isn't social and you are just delusional if you think Halo 5's social is good or actually social.

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Why would you care about winning/losing there is no reward, nothing happens. If you want to tryhard in social is your problem none is forcing you to do it.

Why why are people this thick. Is all in your head, admit that you want to stomp and move on.

The old ass computer I'm using double posted  :lxthul:

 

But to add on to someone above who was talking about the attitude thing....yeah that's a joke too. Because of the social playlists so far aren't "fun". 

 

Hopefully Grifball is a fun social list and I think it will be, but what has come out so far that is "social fun" ? Forged maps only BTB against teams due to hidden ranks, Halo 5 worst team snipers playlist with hidden ranks, 5v5 slayer mainly on the Rig and Riptide with hidden ranks. Sounds fun. 

 

You can't have the attitude that it's social fun when the other team is trying hard every game due to hidden ranks. 

 

You can also just make an alternate account and purposefully place bad if you want to "Stomp" lower skilled players so that argument negated. 

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People quit out in like 1/3 of the games I play, and 4-5 player FFA on these massive maps is just terrible.

 

Games don't finish fast enough, and I get bored in the games.

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To be fair, we "kinda" do that already. We have the Spartan: Ass series which came in during 2013 and early 2015, and Halo Wars 2 is taking a frontseat this year. I know what you mean in terms of genres. Make a game series like Halo 1-3, then switch it with gameplay like 4-5. I'd like that, but it'd honestly seem a little... I dunno, fractured? Especially with only one dev team. Unless MS hired two devs for FPS specific Halo titles, I don't see this happening as you wish.

Yea, they would have to have two dev teams. Which would be good because you have on dev team with a sole vision for H1-2-3 and one with a sole vision for Sprint Halo.

 

It would also mean that the games could be in development alot longer, thus meaning better games. Or another way you could look at it is a new game more often if thats good or bad is another question.

 

Im an old school player and much prefer the old Halo 2-3 style games. I do still play the newer ones, mostly because, well, its Halo. But I can understand why you would think having two series' could get abit confusing.

 

But if they created a clear story to go along with it, it could work. Halo 1/2/3 is based, lets say 200 years before the events of Sprint Halo, which is why they have inferior abilities. It would also mean you could have two different stories lines, which would be interesting in my opinion. (The flood/covenant is a Halo 1/2/3  foe and the promethean a Sprint Halo foe)

 

But this is all just If and maybe. It didnt and wont happen but. . . .

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Lets step bck from this whole "social" discussion for one second and rethink:

 

Back in Halo 3, with its thriving population, the most populated playlist by far was social slayer.

 

Social Slayer in Halo 3:

 

- ZERO skill/MMR matching = Fast search times, relaxed atmosphere.

- No skill-based rank, but still gave EXP.

- Attempted to match similar-sized parties, but would loosen this parameter the longer you searched.

- Separate "Social" stats from Ranked. This deincentivized pub-stomping/padding stats/KD.

 

- Halo 3 also did not display K/D anywhere in game (Ranked or Social). You could only check it via Bungie.net, which let people relax in social.

- Reach and even Halo 4 had non-MMR playlists that ended up being the most populated playlists by FAR.

 

I honestly think they should remove the Team Slayer playlist from H5 and convert it to a permanent Social Slayer playlist that uses the same methodology as Halo 3's rendition. Lets be honest - the current Slayer playlist only appeals to those "try-hard" people who refrain from Team Arena to avoid competition, yet still want to feel like a Champion. Remove stat-tracking, ranks, and MMR from it and it will be a perfect place for players seeking that "social" vibe.

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