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Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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So it works as intended?? The rifles all get beaten by those same autos at close range.

Why is automatic weapons beating precision weapons a good thing? How much skill do you think it takes to press Y?

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No, the masses you're talking about either left for COD, or never picked up Halo because they play League of Legends

Exactly. They left Halo because Halo is no longer Halo. And whatever it is, it isn't enjoyable enough to invest their time and money in.

 

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Because we just had Halo 5's first major event and the complaints about the AR are clearly ridiculously overblown

 

That's the whole context this topic came back up

 

Why should the game be balanced around low level play?

If you think weakening autos balances the game around low level play you need to really sit down and think for a minute.

 

The AR isn't the biggest issue (although it is an issue). It's the SMG/SR and partly the rifle balance.

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People always seems to forget the timeframe that Halo 2 and Halo 3 came out and that's largely the reason they were so popular. Yeah they're better games than H5, but they had issues. Boy did they have issues. I don't find the majory of the abilities in Halo 5 as detrimental as a lot of people say. It's fast, it's 60fps, and a shitload better than Halo 4 and non-doubles Halo Reach. I agree the auto's need nerfing though. And take out the damn hit-markers.

 

Lack of party restrictions is probably Halo 5's biggest flaw though. The ranking system is great, but it's turned to crap because of this.

But a lot of people do. Even the casual fan base who left Halo that can't quite articulate why they choose to play other games left because of them. I'm betting the majority has to do with the movement options, they find them clunky and confusing. The advanced movement options feel far more intuitive in a game like CoD where the kill times are so fast and you can always shoot while performing them. Halo takes you out of the action when you choose to sprint, thrust, clamber, etc. 

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Why is automatic weapons beating precision weapons a good thing? How much skill do you think it takes to press Y?

Automatic/utility weapon balance needs to go back to how it was from Halo 2 - Reach, period. End of discussion.

 

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Automatic/utility weapon balance needs to go back to how it was from Halo 2 - Reach, period. End of discussion.

They didn't even have a niche or purpose in those games.

 

Why dont we just copy Halo CE's and call it a day

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Lets not even mention that for every pro the Pistol kill is almost always number 1 so it being a niche is completely false just by empirical evidence alone. Saying it's a niche makes no sense when even on stream you saw a lot of Pistol kills. There are A LOT of Pistol kills in this game im not sure how people refute this

 

Thought experiment. 

 

If the pistol wasn't the starting weapon, how often would it get picked up? 

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Why is automatic weapons beating precision weapons a good thing? How much skill do you think it takes to press Y?

 

An automatic beating a precision weapon AT CLOSE RANGE is a good thing. If I round a corner and have my pistol out, and there is a guy with an AR. He deserves to kill me unless I outplay him. And no, getting just a perfect is not an outplay. Getting one while also timing my thrust so that it doesn't slow my TTK at all and makes him miss shots is.

 

The SR and SMG are much closer to the "OP pls nerf" that people claim, but are balanced by the fact that they are map pickups. The real issue with them is that there are just too goddamn many on a map. Empire and Fathom for example have 2 SMGs and 2 SR. Take that down to either 1 of each or just 2 of one of them and they become less of an issue.

 

And lol at the dude saying "if they don't get you that many kills then why even care if they are nerfed." Sorry pal, that isn't how this works. Just because we don't think its OP doesn't mean it should be nerfed.

 

I'm actually against nerf balancing though. I'm a fan of buffing stuff to make the OP stuff less OP. Like, idk, making the pistol a 4sk.

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I did miss the tourney, and god knows how any pro player could miss shots with the AR. It has ADS for christs sake, it can melt at mid range if you want it to. I know I don't miss shots with SMG's or AR's unless the aiming goes wacky, just like all the H5 weapons. The ADS range increase and the headshot multiplier means the pistol only wins and mid/close if it hits every single shot. Am I just good at the game, or?

 

 

I disagree. In my experience zoning without a team is the hardest it's ever been in Halo, because of how unpredictable the movement mechanics are and how quickly and easily people can kill you. You give an example like truth, which doesnt really work because playing aggressive doesnt get you anywhere unless you have a solid team-shot because of how open and slow the map is. With that map specifically AR's are unless pushing p1/c1 or the guys hiding in the base corners. Rig Slayer is just zoning, but it's pretty much impossible to zone that whole area yourself without being able to control at least caster or scattershot, good luck with that lol. Even if you were to do that, using the corners or Truth's bases or the many corners of Rig's walls to radar pounce is so effective, it's range covers almost all of those areas and as long as you keep moving with aggressive spot coverage you'll have a much higher change then either covering aggressively with the pistol, where 1 missed bullet will lose you a fight, or covering conservatively with the pistol were you'll just get naded out no matter what your range advantage is.

 

Aggression is stupid when it doesnt work, but the best players make it always work because it will win you games when they're on the line, playing conservatively won't unless you're against idiot opponents.

Unexpected Thrust strafes really mess with players and they will get embarassed, it happens. Having smart strafes with Thrust is probably the most underrated thing in these forums tbh. It's why you start seeing players be smarter with their Thruster nowadays 

 

Idk man, I think the SAs are really exaggerated in high level of play and if you have a smart mental game you'll be totally fine. Just because players can move faster and quickly doesn't mean predictability is gone, it just means you have to play smarter on both sides. For example, in Plaza Slayer if you're holding snipe at Snipe spawn, the only way you can get some blains is if the enemy over-extends and in high levels of play you will see players pre aiming the enemy on clutch/yellow stairs because it's such a favorable position to be in when you're getting spawn trapped. Even with SAs, Plaza Slayer has about 5 options off spawn. You can move Clutch, Blue Door, Light hall, Top Glass and Spiral. Spiral sucks because it's nade city, Top glass is ok but is dumb as a first option with 4 down, Blue door is alright and Clutch gives you instant access to lots of LoS. for the greedy player, Clutch is the option you should go for and you can get those reads easily even with SAs being present. Truth is even easier because of how easy the spawn system is to understand in this game, Rig slayer is ezpz and they can only push Longhall/Barrels/Engine 2/Engine 1 or sewers. Barrels is a really impractical push because of positioning, Engine requires you either being sneaky or dodging a snipe shot possibly, sewers was ok before but now its dumb, etc. You get my point, it's not impossible to get reads on opponents, you just need to play smarter.

 

The Truth example works because you can be a serious nuisance to the enemies and kill a lot of people and you make them not spawn in the best location for them. Unless your team literally doesn't push to the enemy base in CTF, you will probably get 2-4 dead easily. They practically have to actually not push at all. Even if they did, what would be the best option for an AR user? Run into the base and maybe get 1 dead, die and lose Car control? That's way worse.

 

You can control the pace of Rig slayer pretty well without Caster or Scattershot, I've matched against Noble in GBs and we had a back and forth against each other without either of us using the Caster or Scatter while we were in the controlling side. Also, going to nest for cast while you're in Bunker side is almost always a bad play. Caster is cool and all but you have to make some really decent plays to completely crumble that Bunker control, scatter dude wont get more than 1 kill if your team is properly spaced because you will just get a trade and free Scatter. Though if you're talking solo with no mics then yeah I can see what you're saying but this is a team game, gameplay will always differ in solo vs teams

 

Well yea you could say that for almost every playstyle. Playing passively is only stupid if it didn't work as well. Also CLG and Allegiance are pretty slow/methodical teams that aren't on the basis of aggression. Renegades however, is all about aggression. Different teams have different playstyles, it's not all aggression

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Needler sucks in CE

 

Checkmate

Fuckkkkkkk. Well it does track targets so it's better that it sucks rather than be too good. It could've been like Halo 5's needler tho...

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Thought experiment. 

 

If the pistol wasn't the starting weapon, how often would it get picked up? 

How is that a thought experiment

 

It's balanced around being strictly weaker than the rifles on purpose because it's a starting weapon

 

As to whether or not the game should be like that is a whole separate issue from the automatics

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Thought experiment. 

 

If the pistol wasn't the starting weapon, how often would it get picked up? 

Depends what the starting weapon is. If it is an AR, it would get picked up a lot. If it was a BR, never because the BR is a straight upgrade.

 

Let's be real though, it would never get picked up in either case because there aren't any on maps.  :kappa:

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An automatic beating a precision weapon AT CLOSE RANGE is a good thing. If I round a corner and have my pistol out, and there is a guy with an AR. He deserves to kill me unless I outplay him.

Really? He deserves the kill because he had the other spawn weapon out at that instance? News to me.

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How is that a thought experiment

 

It's balanced around being strictly weaker than the rifles on purpose because it's a starting weapon

 

As to whether or not the game should be like that is a whole separate issue from the automatics

It's not supposed to be weaker than the other rifles. How many times does this need to be repeated. ITS SUPPOSED TO BE A. UTILITY. WEAPON.

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How is that a thought experiment

 

It's balanced around being strictly weaker than the rifles on purpose because it's a starting weapon

 

First of all, his post was talking about how it's technically a better weapon than any other given that it's used the most by pros.

 

Secondly, it's almost like that's exactly the problem or something... ...

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If the pistol was on the map and the game was BR starts do you really think pros would pick it up and use it nearly as often as they do?

 

I'll answer it for you. No.

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First of all, his post was talking about how it's technically a better weapon than any other given that it's used the most by pros.

 

Secondly, it's almost like that's exactly the problem or something... ...

Yeah and you're completely ignoring that it came up in the context of the Pistol vs the AR

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Really? He deserves the kill because he had the other spawn weapon out at that instance? News to me.

What he deserves, is the advantage. If neither player in the engagement makes a mistake, he should get the kill. You should have to outplay him with the pistol if you want to win the fight.

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What he deserves, is the advantage. If neither player in the engagement makes a mistake, he should get the kill. You should have to outplay him with the pistol if you want to win the fight.

Have you ever played Halo before?
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It is just barely beaten by the AR and SMG if you don't miss shots. I'm leaving the SR out of this because everyone knows it needs nerfed. The pistol user right now has to land a perfect AND make the auto user miss shots. Sounds like he has to outplay the guy in order to kill his opponent who is using the better weapon for the range he is fighting him. So no issue there. 

 

The thing about people on here is that they all think that it is impossible to miss with an auto, when it isn't. It's like everyone thinks that AR popped some Addy and is so laser focused that it will never miss a shot, when that just isn't the case.

 

Here's an idea: Maybe you shouldn't have to hit a perfect kill in close range while strafing like a madman with the hardest weapon in the game and still lose/just barely win because your opponent was spraying a noob weapon. The autos should never be straight up better than the utility weapon, regardless of range.

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