Jump to content
CyReN

Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

Recommended Posts

Were we watching the same game this weekend?

 

You keep saying this is happening and there is a whole weekend of VOD to the contrary. If what you were saying was true there would be more AR kills than Pistol kills in the feed.

 

When we're evaluating the balance of the game I'm afraid Pro footage >>> Your matchmaking experience. If you make the AR weaker then it would never get used period, which as I said like a page ago, might be what you want in the first place.

There was plenty of automatic weapon use this weekend along with lots of rifle vs pistol fights.

 

And yea, the point is to make the autos close to useless. They require a very small amount of skill and should have kill times reflecting that. Unless they get unique characteristics (like plasma stun, quick melees, etc.) then they should not outshoot rifles so easily.

  • Upvote (+1) 5

Share this post


Link to post

We just had an entire weekend of halo that demonstrated without a doubt this isn't happening at all

 

The AR is a highly situational close range weapon that you use in CQC against an opponent who is 100% going to thrust out of your crosshair

 

The split between rifle/pistol kills and auto kills was probably 80%/20% and that's being generous

Yeah I agree. There were too many auto kills this weekend. ARs needs to be more like CE imo
  • Upvote (+1) 3

Share this post


Link to post

But the games I just this weekend saw demonstrated that the AR is a non issue

If I were to take what I read in this thread at face value there would have been tons of mid-long range quickscope meltdowns with the AR and SMG and this literally never happened

As for the storm rifle, it's a projectile based weapon and deserves to be stronger than hitscan

 

I think the real problem here is that for decades the SMG/AR and Plasma rifle were simply garbage weapons that, once you learned how to aim, were never useful in any circumstance since Halo 2 and you simply expect them to continue to be garbage weapons.

 

The only weapon that seems over the top to me in Halo 5 so far is the Railgun.

 

The AR in the previous games were not "garbage". Just because a weapon is weak, doesn't mean it's garbage, it means it has a role to play in the sandbox. That role has completely changed in Halo 5. Automatics are supposed to be easy to use so the game is more accessible and this is fine when automatics are secondary weapons like they were in the previous Halo games but this is no longer the case. Weapons that are supposed to be easy to use are now putting up good fights against precision weapons and this lowers the skill gap considerably.

  • Upvote (+1) 7

Share this post


Link to post

I'm just gonna quote this real quick:

 

I think the real problem here is that for decades the SMG/AR and Plasma rifle were simply garbage weapons that, once you learned how to aim, were never useful in any circumstance since Halo 2 and you simply expect them to continue to be garbage weapons.

 

If that's your stance then quit beating around the bush and just come out and say it. If you think that useless noob trap weapons have a place in an FPS game then we're simply at an impass and there's really nothing more to discuss beyond that.

 

 

The AR in the previous games were not "garbage". Just because a weapon is weak, doesn't mean it's garbage, it means it has a role to play in the sandbox. That role has completely changed in Halo 5. Automatics are supposed to be easy to use so the game is more accessible and this is fine when automatics are secondary weapons like they were in the previous Halo games but this is no longer the case. Weapons that are supposed to be easy to use are now putting up good fights against precision weapons and this lowers the skill gap considerably.

Okay, someone finally came out and said it

You just want the weapon to be a useless crutch. We seem to have some disagreement of what 'garbage' means, because that's exactly what garbage means to me.

  • Upvote (+1) 1
  • Downvote (-1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

Why do people think that when H5 is criticized, it automatically means that H2 and H3 are being put on a pedestal as perfect games?

because Brad pitt said that h5 has game breaking issues whereas h2 and h3 did not. That's how this whole convo started iirc

Share this post


Link to post

because Brad pitt said that h5 has game breaking issues whereas h2 and h3 did not. That's how this whole convo started iirc

 

Well, that is:

 

1. Ridiculous

2. Not true in the slightest

3. Obviously troll bait

  • Upvote (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post

I'm just gonna quote this real quick:

 

 

If that's your stance then quit beating around the bush and just come out and say it. If you think that useless noob trap weapons have a place in an FPS game then we're simply at an impass and there's really nothing more to discuss beyond that.

The plasma rifle was never useless. It allowed for very quick kills in close range when combined with a melee. Same goes for the others but plasma did more shield damage. Also plasma rifle/BR combo was always very strong. Even dual wielded with a pistol those weapons were great.

 

In CE both the AR and Plasma rifle were very good weapons so I really don't understand your point.

  • Upvote (+1) 3

Share this post


Link to post

If it's easy as fuck to use, AR/Storm, it shouldn't have kill times equal to or better than the skill based weapons. Not that hard to grasp. 

 

Rockets being the exception because the skillful part is the fight for them. 

 

Edit: Also, the nostalgia argument is the worst one I've ever heard and is full on Waypoint levels of ignorant. 

I just want to add that rockets are relatively skillfull, you don't automatically win when you pick them up. They do have projectile travel time, long reload/small clip management, personal damage and vision impairment. I mean, the thing that makes them so powerful is the massive blast radius killzone, which makes it unbeatable  in a lot of situations. I think making it more of a skill based power weapon would involve quicker projectiles and smaller kill radius, but the way rockets have been balanced in Halo has been quite fine imo.

 

 

You HAVE to see all these people that are complaining. It's 100% a different aiming system than past Halo games and that makes it feel very wrong from the start.

Different from literally EVERY shooter. The beta had a good curve then they just chucked it in the blender and came up with the monstrosity that we have now. I don't know how they came up with the idea, and actually think it felt fine. Unreal.

 

It's the only shooter I'ver ever played that requires a lot of warming up every time i put the disc in. It completely shits on my muscle memory. It's like all the other shooters i've played are bikes, and Halo 5 is a unicycle.

  • Upvote (+1) 6

Share this post


Link to post

So because pro level communication and teamshot reduces the impact of autos its not an issue? Even though at virtually all other levels of play autos play a hug role? Especially in gametypes with less than 8 people.

This isn't just in pro levels of communication either imo. If you look at the stats, anyone close to 2k or a little above it have 6% or less auto usage.

 

I'll be honest and have made smurfs with my teammates (all 2k+) where we quite literally only used autos in Arena for qual matches and we would win for the most part and we would be matching against Plat and Diamond.

 

Soon as we hit higher onyx players though, using autos a ton seriously does not work in 4v4.

 

I don't play FFA so can't say anything on that. 2s in this game, yea they suck

 

Edit: whenever I do scrims as well or tournament I have never reviewed a match and my teammates have said "we should have used more autos". It's almost always something about us messing up a push, miscommunication, lack of control, not prioritizing the right people, etc.

 

Also I do think there should be a balance change but honestly at the mist, I would say buff Pistol to 4sk and if you ask me I would make the Bullet mag of Human snipe and Beam drastically different. It seems 343 wants a PW that can change the tide of a match and make a serious comeback with the Human Sniper. However they should make the Beam rifle the opposite and make it much harder to use, maybe something like the h1 sniper considering it has a fast RoF already

Share this post


Link to post

I'm just gonna quote this real quick:

 

 

If that's your stance then quit beating around the bush and just come out and say it. If you think that useless noob trap weapons have a place in an FPS game then we're simply at an impass and there's really nothing more to discuss beyond that.

 

 

Okay, someone finally came out and said it

You just want the weapon to be a useless crutch. We seem to have some disagreement of what 'garbage' means, because that's exactly what garbage means to me.

Lol what? Autos should be near useless and be a secondary, where the pistol should be useful and your primary. Hardly a "noob trap", just a different way to balance them without being fucking sniped with them

Share this post


Link to post

^^^^^^^THIS. This needs to be seen by everyone.

And they'll still say the one on the right is more preferable.

 

"Everything needs to be useful!" and "a pistol should never be stronger than a rifle!". 

 

They still don't understand the balance needed in skill required and reward. All they seem to care about is if it's useful, not how hard it is to use. 

  • Upvote (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post

Is the weekend snipers playlist supposed to have the motion sensor on? I've played a few games without it and a couple games with it on. Make up your mind game.

Share this post


Link to post

And they'll still say the one on the right is more preferable.

 

"Everything needs to be useful!" and "a pistol should never be stronger than a rifle!".

 

They still don't understand the balance needed in skill required and reward. All they seem to care about is if it's useful, not how hard it is to use.

It's sad that those thoughts are on a competitive Halo forum. I understand preference but we are talking about skill-based gameplay here. I've gotten into way more argument at about weapon balance than I ever thought I would. I thought it was obvious the game needed to be tweaked and that everyone knew it was wonky. We've had Halo since 2001 yet people still don't understand the need for a utility weapon and balance around it. There are even people here saying sprint isn't a problem!
  • Upvote (+1) 6

Share this post


Link to post

This isn't just in pro levels of communication either imo. If you look at the stats, anyone close to 2k or a little above it have 6% or less auto usage.

 

I'll be honest and have made smurfs with my teammates (all 2k+) where we quite literally only used autos in Arena for qual matches and we would win for the most part and we would be matching against Plat and Diamond.

 

Soon as we hit higher onyx players though, using autos a ton seriously does not work in 4v4.

 

I don't play FFA so can't say anything on that. 2s in this game, yea they suck

 

Edit: whenever I do scrims as well or tournament I have never reviewed a match and my teammates have said "we should have used more autos". It's almost always something about us messing up a push, miscommunication, lack of control, not prioritizing the right people, etc.

That's because the pistol is a better team-shot weapon; it kills with a single headshot. Playing solo against aggressive players, the AR is almost always the better choice, because it's consistent and predictable with it's kill time, and you can't miss shots. Less people run solo in Onyx and higher, and less people play aggressively (the ones that do are usually in teams, and aggressively team-shot with the pistol). That's why it's like that.

 

In H5 FFA, where spawns are satans pets and every encounter is solo, the AR has shown to be way too good. Effective in mid-close range battles, the pistols usually used for farther distance and picking off. But when you see a red dot close in, switching to AR is always the right decision.

  • Upvote (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post

This isn't just in pro levels of communication either imo. If you look at the stats, anyone close to 2k or a little above it have 6% or less auto usage.

 

I'll be honest and have made smurfs with my teammates (all 2k+) where we quite literally only used autos in Arena for qual matches and we would win for the most part and we would be matching against Plat and Diamond.

 

Soon as we hit higher onyx players though, using autos a ton seriously does not work in 4v4.

 

I don't play FFA so can't say anything on that. 2s in this game, yea they suck

 

Edit: whenever I do scrims as well or tournament I have never reviewed a match and my teammates have said "we should have used more autos". It's almost always something about us messing up a push, miscommunication, lack of control, not prioritizing the right people, etc.

 

Also I do think there should be a balance change but honestly at the mist, I would say buff Pistol to 4sk and if you ask me I would make the Bullet mag of Human snipe and Beam drastically different. It seems 343 wants a PW that can change the tide of a match and make a serious comeback with the Human Sniper. However they should make the Beam rifle the opposite and make it much harder to use, maybe something like the h1 sniper considering it has a fast RoF already

2k csr? You do realise that is like 0.000001% of the playerbase right?

 

Even at the fringe of diamond/onyx(the eqivalent of people who struggled but got a 50) theres big time auto usage. Below that? Its an epidemic.

Share this post


Link to post

That's because the pistol is a better team-shot weapon; it kills with a single headshot. Playing solo against aggressive players, the AR is almost always the better choice, because it's consistent and predictable with it's kill time, and you can't miss shots. Less people run solo in Onyx and higher, and less people play aggressively (the ones that do are usually in teams, and aggressively team-shot with the pistol). That's why it's like that.

 

In H5 FFA, where spawns are satans pets and every encounter is solo, the AR has shown to be way too good. Effective in mid-close range battles, the pistols usually used for farther distance and picking off. But when you see a red dot close in, switching to AR is always the right decision.

And that's just the AR, which is the weakest auto in the game. Storm rifles in free for all are the most ridiculous thing ever. If you look at the scoreboard people are winning games with less than 10 headshots. That shit is ridiculous. People are getting 1-3 without getting headshots and if that doesn't show autos being a problem I don't know what does.

Share this post


Link to post

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use & Privacy Policy.