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Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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We had a dialogue with pros about Breakout (early in HWC, before Xmas break) and the feedback was split. A number of pros on top seeded teams said they wanted to keep it on the circuit, in part because they had put in the time to practice with competition in mind. There was not a majority in favor of removing. That said, we remain open to revisiting in future (post-HWC) and making changes based on feedback. Up to and including removing/replacing the mode for competitive play.

 

 

No one is trying to force anything down your throat. The mode continues to perform well and is popular with the H5 player base despite any vocal opposition here. It's certainly not "crap"  and we won't consider it a failure if it is changed/removed for competitive play.

I have to say that while not everyone dislikes Breakout in my experiences it is far too controversial just like radar and storm rifles. I can't go a day without either reading about or listening to someone complaining about how bad they are being in the settings. I don't enjoy them myself either. The situation is far too negative and its clear that we need settings that will satisfy a larger portion of the population. Right now far too many people are unhappy for this to be the correct setup.

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It'll be bad if a kill-trade random winner determines the winner of a Gold medal, or a couple of hundred thousand $'s.

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We had a dialogue with pros about Breakout (early in HWC, before Xmas break) and the feedback was split. A number of pros on top seeded teams said they wanted to keep it on the circuit, in part because they had put in the time to practice with competition in mind. There was not a majority in favor of removing. That said, we remain open to revisiting in future (post-HWC) and making changes based on feedback. Up to and including removing/replacing the mode for competitive play.

 

 

No one is trying to force anything down your throat. The mode continues to perform well and is popular with the H5 player base despite any vocal opposition here. It's certainly not "crap"  and we won't consider it a failure if it is changed/removed for competitive play.

 

Is it possible that we can see some classic Halo OBJ gametypes at the HWC? 

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Is it possible that we can see some classic Halo OBJ gametypes at the HWC? 

 

Classic Halo Objective gametypes? Those gametypes are a part of Halo, they are Halo. I wouldn't even label them as classic.

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Please, also talk about removing Radar for future competitive settings. It's been No Radar for years, and should stay that way.

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Also, in terms of population, I don't see what that has to do with it being in HCS. Ranked Infection will have a large population but that doesn't mean anything in terms of competitive merit.

 

Kind of apples to oranges there. Breakout was designed be competitive and spectator friendly, not so with Infection.

 

If the gametype is competitive and played by a significant enough population, there exists an argument for its inclusion based upon attracting viewers, and incorporating variety into the HCS gametype lineup.

 

At the moment, I don't think Breakout is anywhere near refined enough to be played for HCS prize money. But if it's popular and can be tweaked into something competitively viable, I don't see why 343 should just toss aside the potential of the gametype in tournament play.

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GUYS! Did we enter new ranking season for Arena? All of my ranks just reset....

Season shouldn't end until the end of the month.

 

Restart the game?

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Does anyone else think that pros having a say what goes into the competitive settings is one of the worst ideas possible? Time and time again some pros have shown that they understand very little about what makes the game more competitive and will prefer things they are used to or what they think will give them a better chance at winning than the more competitive settings. Not that I blame them, they want/need to get paid after all.

 

Some pros have said Halo 5 should keep radar and others think the SMG/Storm Rifles are fine FFS. My point is that just because some pros say Breakout is fine and should stay are literally just saying that because they feel that time practicing would have been for nothing. Not all pros are like that though, hearing Lxthul trash it on stream was nice. 

 

Strongly agree. Pros are great for testing gametypes at the highest levels of play, but being good at the game says next to nothing about your ability to design fun and competitive gameplay.

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Kind of apples to oranges there. Breakout was designed be competitive and spectator friendly, not so with Infection.

 

If the gametype is competitive and played by a significant enough population, there exists an argument for its inclusion based upon attracting viewers, and incorporating variety into the HCS gametype lineup.

 

At the moment, I don't think Breakout is anywhere near refined enough to be played for HCS prize money. But if it's popular and can be tweaked into something competitively viable, I don't see why 343 should just toss aside the potential of the gametype in tournament play.

Well, it's neither competitive nor spectator friendly so they have a ways to go in making it viable for competition.

 

@bold, I've said this a million times but no matter how popular a gametype is it will never get the casual crowd who is not interested in competitive Halo to watch competitive Halo. They could be playing Infection at the tournaments and it still wouldn't get the casual infection community to tune-in. It's as bad as Ryanoob's argument that radar in Halo 5 will attract more viewers because the casual crowd is used to radar. Sounds all great and dandy but it's simply not based in reality. 

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Does anyone else think that pros having a say what goes into the competitive settings is one of the worst ideas possible? Time and time again some pros have shown that they understand very little about what makes the game more competitive and will prefer things they are used to or what they think will give them a better chance at winning than the more competitive settings. Not that I blame them, they want/need to get paid after all.

 

Some pros have said Halo 5 should keep radar and others think the SMG/Storm Rifles are fine FFS. My point is that just because some pros say Breakout is fine and should stay are literally just saying that because they feel that time practicing would have been for nothing. Not all pros are like that though, hearing Lxthul trash it on stream was nice. 

 

Being the exclusive authority on the settings is a bad idea.  Having a say in them isn't.

 

It's not like random forum users are (clarification, speaking on average here) any more qualified to speak about competitive settings.

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Season shouldn't end until the end of the month.

 

Restart the game?

It happened two days ago. I hard reset my xbox, QTB multiple times, still nothing. Kind of interesting. Wonder what happened

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Being the exclusive authority on the settings is a bad idea.  Having a say in them isn't.

 

It's not like random forum users are (clarification, speaking on average here) any more qualified to speak about competitive settings.

Agree to an extent but it can be very dangerous giving the players who play for money even a say in the settings. You wouldn't want NFL or NBA players having a say in a rule change, the games would play very differently and they would always want changes that benefit them the most. The pros could be the some of the best testers of new setting changes however. 

 

Any pro that wants to keep radar in has a different motive than making the game more competitive, without question. 

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Well, it's neither competitive nor spectator friendly so they have a ways to go in making it viable for competition.

 

Yes, like I said it needs to be refined. It didn't earn it's place in the competitive gametype lineup, so it still has a lot of nonsensical and just plain bad aspects to it. But the experience it's aiming for is a good one, for both players and spectators imo.

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Yes, like I said it needs to be refined. It didn't earn it's place in the competitive gametype lineup, so it still has a lot of nonsensical and just plain bad aspects to it. But the experience it's aiming for is a good one, for both players and spectators imo.

What experience is it going for? You mean like a round based elimination experience? 

 

Not a terrible idea on paper but every single elimination gametype introduced into Halo has failed miserably. Why must we try and make an experience other games have damn near perfected (CS) and bring that into an "arena" shooter? I think Halo should do what Halo does best and leave the other games to do what they do best and Halo is at it's best when there is fast paced action with a lot going on with an objective.

 

I would rather do something else and just be told who won the breakout game than actually watch it, which is what I did yesterday. I played some games when breakout came on and started watching again when the breakout game was over. 

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Please, also talk about removing Radar for future competitive settings. It's been No Radar for years, and should stay that way.

It's also been BR starts for years but that's not happening. They will just keep the settings the way they want them, I don't see any changes in the near future except maybe a new obj mode Ball or bomb. Would like to atleast see radar removed or the storm rifle/ar nerfed though. Again, I just don't see it happening

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Not saying that was their main reasoning, just that it was a factor for some. I mentioned population in context of the comments around the mode being considered a waste of development time if it doesn't remain in the competitive scene. My point being, it's not a waste if a large population continues to enjoy playing it, as they do today.

 

 

I'm pretty confident you will see this happen. :)

 

Well of course, though I find Breakout to be similar to SWAT. A refreshing break from traditional Halo. Breakout and SWAT are not bad gametypes by any means, they're actually fun, though it being alongside other competitive Halo gametpes is the issue. I understand keeping it in season one since that's how it was originally set and pros don't want their time wasted, but I'm positive that there will be more positive reception if Breakout isn't in season two.

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Can we AT LEAST remove radar for Regionals/HWC? Or have more serious discussions about it? Its one of the biggest negative factors to Arena/HCS right now.

 

@@Sal1ent

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It's also been BR starts for years but that's not happening. They will just keep the settings the way they want them, I don't see any changes in the near future except maybe a new obj mode Ball or bomb. Would like to atleast see radar removed or the storm rifle/ar nerfed though. Again, I just don't see it happening

The Battle Rifle is not the right starting weapon for Halo 5.

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@@Sal1ent since we're talking HWC, is there anything for AM players to do after HWC? All this stuff is invitational and there is a pro league but that doesn't really matter for people not in the top 8/16

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The Battle Rifle is not the right starting weapon for Halo 5.

That's fine, doesn't take away from the point that they completely change settings to what they prefer...but there's also a reason why plenty of people bought the game and the pros + a few hardcore fans are the only ones left playing.
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What experience is it going for? You mean like a round based elimination experience? 

 

Not a terrible idea on paper but every single elimination gametype introduced into Halo has failed miserably. Why must we try and make an experience other games have damn near perfected (CS) and bring that into an "arena" shooter? I think Halo should do what Halo does best and leave the other games to do what they do best and Halo is at it's best when there is fast paced action with a lot going on with an objective.

 

I would rather do something else and just be told who won the breakout game than actually watch it, which is what I did yesterday. I played some games when breakout came on and started watching again when the breakout game was over. 

 

Have other attempts at elimination gametypes in Halo ever been serious though? Has it not always been some duct-taped together gametype that the devs threw in for kicks?

 

It aims to be competitive, round-based, played on small symmetrical maps, with a high potential for comebacks, and an emphasis on set plays that you change between rounds. It'll depend on your tastes, but I think these things are worthwhile to have within a Halo gametype (even if it ultimately doesn't end up viable for competitive play when all is said and done).

 

I agree that Halo should do what it does best, but I don't think Breakout is incompatible with that sentiment. (EDIT To clarify, I don't think the best parts of Halo's gameplay disappear when you remove respawns and make it round-based). I don't think it should've been in HCS off the bat, it needs time to evolve like all the other gametypes (even more so because of how different it is). It's unfortunate, I think it would have better standing in the community if it hadn't been thrown straight into the HCS gametypes and Team Arena playlist.

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