Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

[Tactics]

Go play a game where 10% of your shots drop and tell me how that works out for you.

Its no worse than people hitting 40% more than they should.

[cookies4you]

Thats the whole point of my argument.

If 10% of your shots are disappearing, then it's a pretty big problem.

 

The Battle Rifle fires 12 shots. 10% of that is 1.2, which rounds up to 2 shots.

 

That's an extra burst that you have to fire, not taking account the random spread and projectile leading.

[Tactics]

If 10% of your shots are disappearing, then it's a pretty big problem.

 

The Battle Rifle fires 12 shots. 10% of that is 1.2, which rounds up to 2 shots.

 

That's an extra burst that you have to fire, not taking account the random spread and projectile leading.

Not nearly that many shots get dropped on LAN, I was just giving a number that was consistent. 85-90% is a consistent percentage.

[cookies4you]

Not nearly that many shots get dropped on LAN, I was just giving a number that was consistent. 85-90% is a consistent percentage.

It's unacceptable that bullets are getting dropped in the first place.

[Cursed Lemon]

Its no worse than people hitting 40% more than they should.

 

The contention was that H3's registration was perfectly acceptable on LAN.

 

It was not.

[Tactics]

The contention was that H3's registration was perfectly acceptable on LAN.

 

It was not.

No if you payed attention, the contention was the H3 had a shooting skill gap that Halo 5 doesn't. And I still stand by that statement. Nowhere did I say it was perfectly anything. No Halo game has been perfect, not even your precious CE.

[valaea]

come watch the player who all the pros hate for some reason:

 

http://www.twitch.tv/cntra

[cookies4you]

No if you payed attention, the contention was the H3 had a shooting skill gap that Halo 5 doesn't.

While we're at it, we might as well say Reach has a shooting skill gap because lol!bloom.

[Cursed Lemon]

No if you payed attention, the contention was the H3 had a shooting skill gap that Halo 5 doesn't. And I still stand by that statement. Nowhere did I say it was perfectly anything. No Halo game has been perfect, not even your precious CE.

 

Halo 3 drops shots like no other Halo.

 

That is the topic of discussion here.

[TheIcePrincess]

So your comparing an online game, to a game that was based on LAN, and upset because you don't get the same result.

I'm comparing an online game, to a game based on LAN, and a bunch of other titles based on online play. 

[Duji]

No if you payed attention, the contention was the H3 had a shooting skill gap that Halo 5 doesn't. And I still stand by that statement. 

You're still wrong. I have no idea how you're measuring skill gap. If it's merely % of shots missed, then of course Halo 3 wins. Netcode + spread does that.

[Droid]

***SUPER LONG POST I APOLOGIZE, TL;DR AT BOTTOM***

 

I just got caught up on the last 30 pages or so, and wow that was disappointing. There are correct points on both sides of the “main argument” that everyone is discussing, but I definitely feel that the community is correct on this issue here.

 

The fact of the matter is that Frankie isn’t and never has had an interest in our section of the community. I just went through all of @@Frankie‘s post history here on the Beyond forums, and I would say maybe about 10-15% of his posts are actually related to what we are discussing. Most of them are vague “PR talk” that don’t give us the competitive community a strong feeling of trust or rather understanding. A fair chunk of them seem to all follow the same pattern. Someone will post something ‘distasteful’ or ‘insulting’ and Frankie will ignore every post except for this particular one. Seriously. Go look at his history he does literally every time he’s here and then disappears for months again.

 

That isn’t the point of this post to once again demonize @@Frankie, but to create a constructive post about his and 343’s relationship with us here on the Team Beyond forums.

 

So here we go:

 

@@Frankie, we WANT to have a REAL conversation with you/343i about Halo 5’s mechanics, sustain plan, and more. No doubt that the Beyond forums are the most fervent and analytical group of Halo fans you have ever discussed with, but it is an important dialogue we need to have as Developer and Community. I personally believe that a game’s success depends almost solely on the developer’s ability to understand and communicate with their fan base. I’m not talking about success in terms of sales or units sold, but by that game’s community and the gaming community as a whole. A game could sell millions of copies but still be a failure because the developer completely missed the mark with their game. (Brink and Halo 4 are good examples)

 

MCC really should have been a positive turning point for a franchise that has certainly seen better days. Even if we discount the atrocious launch and subsequent support the game has received, we were/are definitely OWED a discussion about that. In fact, if I recall correctly, I do remember @@Frankie stating he’ll do a write-up about the whole thing once the game’s fixed……..Oh yeah we’re still waiting on that.

 

Or how about the pro gameplays that were supposed to come out right around Halo 5's launch? Has anyone seen those? How about the controller settings we discussed with @@Sal1ent? Noticed he hasn’t posted since then; maybe they’re still working on it, or maybe they actually don’t care.

 

@@Frankie, I think the amount of negative feedback/insults you’ve received are directly-proportional to your willingness to actually respond and have an open dialogue with us. While you are technically correct in stating that you aren’t required to have a discussion with us about the franchise, that mindset DEFINTELY helped caused Halo to be in the miserable shape that it is. Why would people play a game franchise where the developer doesn’t care over one that does? I’ve seen the hateful and downright disturbing things League of Legends fans have sent to Riot Games, but I don’t see their Franchise Manager getting distraught over one post on one forum and leaving.

 

You are directly responsible for a good chunk of the hate you receive, and that can change if 343 actually shows they give a damn about us. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that whenever there is a Waypoint update mentioning the Halo community that this website is always absent in name. I think the reality is that our members are too passionate, or even too knowledgeable, about the game that it will be hard to back up your guys’ game design philosophies with PR-approved responses.

 

 So let me help you guys get started so we can actually talk. Thankfully the Beyond forums are full of stellar people who have made meaningful threads/posts with positive feedback to help improve Halo 5: Guardians.

• http://teambeyond.net/forum/topic/11748-a-fan-feedback-letter-to-the-hcs-team-by-vin-ftw/
• http://teambeyond.net/forum/topic/11754-halo-weapon-sandbox-discussion-what-wed-want/
• http://teambeyond.net/forum/topic/5443-halo-5-guardians-discussion/page-301?do=findComment&comment=352999
• http://teambeyond.net/forum/topic/5443-halo-5-guardians-discussion/page-1084?do=findComment&comment=465809

As well you could look at this thread from right after that Halo 5 Beta ended and find many more constructive posts about Halo 5. Other communities such as r/Halo and Waypoint do also have good posts that would help make Halo 5 better.

 

I think for the majority of us though is that the communication has not been clear even since 343 took over. Whose decision was it to forgo almost ALL of the previous game types? Why was Overgrowth’s map layout so incredibly unbalanced? Was the map actually play tested? (On a personal note: Seriously, who gives Blue team an uncontestable camo and shotgun and call that balanced?)

 

If we didn’t feel like we had to pester and fish for information then perhaps our demeanor would be more positive. Finding out what’s happening with the game shouldn’t be akin to trying to feed a non-cooperative baby. It may have been different 10 or even 5 years ago, but today in 2016 the strengths of a good game developer is actual communication with their own player-base. Simple as that.

 

 

I think we do things diligently and carefully and with minimum disruption and with a better base condition than some of our and our competitors' games. I think we adjust things at a pace that reflects our engine and our commitment to our entire player base. That's my personal view. There's no answer you can give to consumers that couldn't be improved in terms of time and frequency, but we're also going to get better at it.

 

I disagree. Be up front. Discuss which aspects of the game you intend to work on, how you're going to work on it, why you guys are working on it, and give a reasonable time-frame. If Call of Duty developers and Valve can turn around a patch within a week due to fan-feedback how come 343 cannot? If your engine takes that much time to introduce changes than perhaps it is not that great of an engine.

 

 

I'll give an example:

From Waypoints 12.15.14 Content Update post.

Made various changes and improvements to Halo: CE multiplayer hit registration.

 

Made improvements how? While the majority of players do not care, the more dedicated fanatics would actually like to know the specifics; after all some of us are game designers too. Why not mention what was specifically changed? Bullet magnetism, auto aim, tick rate, and more are all things that affect how we perceive a change is made. If we're not sure what you guys changed to improve the registration, how can we be sure you guys changed the correct things?

 

In short: We don't, and this is bad. Despite the fact that almost everyone working on MCC had no idea what they were doing, no one could even explain thoroughly what changes were made in patches that didn't induce confusion. While Halo 5's content updates have certainly been more open and in-depth they have been lacking in quantity.

 

Halo 5's January update is supposed to be out relatively soon, but we have little to no idea when it releases, what changes to the game are included, the full scope of DLC, and any concrete answer of the game types you left out.

 

 

Sure but those items are FAR more subjective and less numerically problematic. And as such will be delicately considered rather than clumsily tweaked.

 

It's not subjective that the AR has an absolute kill time quicker than the Pistol. It's not subjective that the Storm Rifle kills in 3-5 shot-beatdown combo. If you guys truly do care about the competitive scene then how can you justify letting easy-to-use automatic weapons dominate the skillful utility weapons in a range that far exceeds the needs of said automatics?

 

 

This post has definitely gone on longer for than I intended, but I think this pseudo-communication we've had with 343 needs to end. Your ever-dwindling fan base isn't going to sit around waiting for "More on that soon" or "We're working on it" and no definite answers. I might have been a little firm in the post I have made, but it is done in the intention that I am serious about opening up a better communication with 343 Industries. At this point in time, it is 110% on them to step-up and be the developers they were hired to be.

 

 

TL;DR - We as the community have given more than enough positive feedback to engage in an open dialogue with 343 Industries. At this point any miscommunication between us and them rests solely on their shoulders. Also, where are the other gametypes?

[Tactics]

Halo 3 drops shots like no other Halo.

 

That is the topic of discussion here.

And yet it still has a shooting skill gap that Halo 5 doesn't.

[Cursed Lemon]

And yet it still has a shooting skill gap that Halo 5 doesn't.

 

What in the world makes you think I'm interested in defending Halo 5?

[TheIcePrincess]

That moment when you state an opinion so people neg you and then don't come out with a viable refute.

It happens. :P

[Edain]

No if you payed attention, the contention was the H3 had a shooting skill gap that Halo 5 doesn't. And I still stand by that statement. Nowhere did I say it was perfectly anything. No Halo game has been perfect, not even your precious CE.

What was so imperfect about CE? I honestly can't think of one thing.

 

Halo 3 drops shots like no other Halo.

 

That is the topic of discussion here.

Just curious, but have you LAN'd H3 at all in the recent year? Any time I've LAN'd it I haven't had any shots not register unless the modem we're using overheats because it's sitting in between four 360's.

 

However, when we moved to online and play matchmaking it was a completely different story. Shot's would not register some of the time depending on the host. Granted we were playing on wireless, but still.

 

Maybe everyone just has a bitter taste in their mouths from the actual H3 days back in 07-10 when a lot of people still didn't have good internet. I don't know about you guys, but I had some shit ass internet back then. It was only recently that I got better internet. The last year of H3 and the entirety of Reach I played on a 3 or 4down 1up connection.

[Tactics]

What in the world makes you think I'm interested in defending Halo 5?

Thats the whole point of my rant is Halo 5s ridiculously easy aiming.

[Duji]

Thats the whole point of my rant is Halo 5s ridiculously easy aiming.

Halo 3 punishes players who have good aim. Just think about that for a minute.

[Avenger]

Given how random it was that you'd 4 someone in H3, gonna disagree.

That game had projectiles instead of hitscan so you had to lead your shots. 

 

T2 explains it pretty well

 

[beamimpact]

ive never experienced the 343i servers as laggy as today

[cookies4you]

Thats the whole point of my rant is Halo 5s ridiculously easy aiming.

Halo 5's easy aiming is much more preferable to Halo 3's shitty netcode.

 

Think about it for a moment.

 

With Halo 3, you're taking away something that someone earned. But when that happens is up to chance.

 

With Halo 5, you're giving someone something they didn't deserve. However, at least everyone gets this benefit.

[TheIcePrincess]

That game had projectiles instead of hitscan so you had to lead your shots. 

I know it did, and I was leading my shots, just fine in the situation I'd laid out, which is why I have an issue with it in the first place. CE had the same thing; projectiles, and it worked wonders, whereas H3 soiled it.

[Cursed Lemon]

Just curious, but have you LAN'd H3 at all in the recent year? Any time I've LAN'd it I haven't had any shots not register unless the modem we're using overheats because it's sitting in between four 360's.

 

However, when we moved to online and play matchmaking it was a completely different story. Shot's would not register some of the time depending on the host. Granted we were playing on wireless, but still.

 

Maybe everyone just has a bitter taste in their mouths from the actual H3 days back in 07-10 when a lot of people still didn't have good internet. I don't know about you guys, but I had some shit ass internet back then. It was only recently that I got better internet. The last year of H3 and the entirety of Reach I played on a 3 or 4down 1up connection.

 

I have no doubt that network connections improve the condition of H3, but the flat fact is that other Halos did not have this problem at any noticeable capacity.

[Mr Grim]

I know it did, and I was leading my shots, just fine in the situation I'd laid out, which is why I have an issue with it in the first place. CE had the same thing; projectiles, and it worked wonders, whereas H3 soiled it.

the reason it worked in ce was because on xbox it was a lan based multiplayer, halo 3 runs into problems every now and again because it's online, and the net code is just poorly made, the spread really isn't the problem, the netcode being unreliable is a far more pressing issue.

[SweetNSavery]

What was so imperfect about CE? I honestly can't think of one thing.

 

Just curious, but have you LAN'd H3 at all in the recent year? Any time I've LAN'd it I haven't had any shots not register unless the modem we're using overheats because it's sitting in between four 360's.

 

However, when we moved to online and play matchmaking it was a completely different story. Shot's would not register some of the time depending on the host. Granted we were playing on wireless, but still.

 

Maybe everyone just has a bitter taste in their mouths from the actual H3 days back in 07-10 when a lot of people still didn't have good internet. I don't know about you guys, but I had some shit ass internet back then. It was only recently that I got better internet. The last year of H3 and the entirety of Reach I played on a 3 or 4down 1up connection.

CE isn't perfect doe. It didn't have online play like 2. Then it would be perfect.