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Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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No, that's not how it works. You can't twist the definition of interaction to suit your needs.

 

If you want to say the developer discussions between r/halo and Bravo is poor, then that'd be more suited.

Holy semantics.

 

Interaction is a two way street. If all you do is post one off updates, that is not interaction.

 

From what ive seen bravo does not interact, he updates.

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I don't think the main argument on this website is that Halo 5 isn't competitive rofl. If anything I see WAYY more posts here on how Arena is too sweaty.

 

The main argument I believe involves how little content there is in the game to support a community as a whole. Things like File Share, Forge, File Browser, good Custom Game options, real Social Playlists, robust Theater Mode, vehicular combat, game types, a focused and easy to digest narrative, and more are things that keep people playing Halo. These are things that Halo has had 9 years ago, yet suddenly are missing. This isn't even diving into the smaller issues of things like AI behavior, cluttered sandbox, or how certain mechanics slow down the pace of the game, regardless of the faster kill times.

 

We get it, 343i what's best for Halo. So does everyone, regardless of how extreme there ideologies seem. I'm sick of these "343 apologist" or "CE or Bust" labels. Chill the fuck out.

 

EDIT: @@heytred is right though, a LOT of people look at Halo 3 with rose tinted glasses. How can anyone think that the regenerator was a good idea. Or the randomness of precision weapons.

I find it very weird that somebody from 343 has to come on here and tell us that maybe we didnt like older games as much because of nostalgia. Screams insecurity. 

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Holy semantics.

 

Interaction is a two way street. If all you do is post one off updates, that is not interaction.

 

From what ive seen bravo does not interact, he updates.

Person A asks question

Person B answers question

 

Interaction

 

Plain and simple.

 

I find it very weird that somebody from 343 has to come on here and tell us that maybe we didnt like older games as much because of nostalgia. Screams insecurity.
Yeah, I'm sure the guy in charge of Studio Operations cares so much.

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I don't want any new mechanics in halo 6.

 

I just want all the mechanics we have now, except we can shoot while doing them (barring realistically sprint because I doubt that will happen).

Haha. Yeah, I'm sure people can't wait to buy another Halo filled with the same game breaking mechanics that caused them to stop playing Halo 5.

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Person A asks question

Person B answers question

 

Interaction

 

Plain and simple.

 

 

Whatever. My point was that its not as though 343 has boycotted team beyond while amazing dev interaction is going on everywhere else. 343 doesn't interact at all in most places and where they do, it is incredibly minimal.

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I'm only going to briefly respond this because I should be studying...

 

-  I don't think H3's levels are bad in anyway, they're just less dense and more simple than H5's. The scale in H5 has definitely been increased fairly substantially though, they're are very few on foot areas of 3 that are as big as a lot of 5's levels. There are obviously very large scale levels in 3 but they're also quite sparse and as such massively encourage you to use vehicles. That's the aspect which I think H5 nails, it manages to have large scale areas without them feeling empty, it's very content dense with each play space offering a lot of options.

 

-  I completely disagree regarding the Spartan abilities. The obvious introduction of the smashable walls isn't particularly game changing but the way the play spaces are designed with thrust, clamber and sprint in mind makes a massive difference to the gameplay pace. I think the difference with clamber is not that it just increases the height at which you can climb to, it's how smooth it makes vertical movement. Jumping up in previous games has always been a little bit clunky, a crouch jump is more skillful than just clambering but it's no where near as smooth or fast. You don't need to think about whether or not you can make the jump in H5, I think this allows players to be far more creative in their vertical movement because they don't need to worry about fucking up a jump by half a cm. This is obviously reflected in the level design with just how vertical the levels are compared to previous Halos.

 

-  I do agree that having some form of platforming section would be awesome. It's something I've already thought about, I'd happily replace the non-combat missions (although I did the break from the action they offered) with a platforming section. The cutscene where Locke and Osiris are chasing the Chief and blue team across those platforms with the teleporters would have been awesome to play for example.

 

 

 

Yeah I agree the way H5 handled the reintroduction of Cortana was less than ideal. Without completely changing the structure of the campaign, some changes I would make off the top of my head would be:

 

 

- Take out the first mission with Osiris (even though the snow theme was awesome).

 

- Start the game with Chief and Blue team being briefed about the Guardians and being sent to Meridian to investigate the one buried there.

 

- Basically replace Locke and Osiris with Chief and blue team for all of the Meridian missions, explore some of the effects of Cortana's death on the Chief along the way.

 

- Finish that string with a cutscene that introduces the Warden. He tries to stop the Chief but is teleported away then the cutscene hints towards Cortana being involved but doesn't explicitly show her followed by Blue team being mysteriously teleported away.

 

- Cut to Osiris being briefed about the Chief's disappearance immediately preceding Meridian being destroyed by the Guardian, considering the possibility that Chief may be the bad guy, then Osiris gets sent to Sanghelios.

 

- Keep the Sanghelios missions largely the same except replace the Warden fight with Jul M'dama, followed by Osiris being teleported away with the Guardian.

 

- Cut to Blue team on Genesis, again largely the same except that Blue team are trying to figure out what's going on and there's still only hints of Cortana. Maybe add an extra Blue Team mission here.

 

- Cut back to Osiris who're on the side of the Guardian. Change Exuberant Witness's so that she doesn't really know what's going on except that the Warden is here and that someone is controlling him and causing the Guardians to teleport in. Change it so that Locke still thinks the Chief is bad and is telling him to stand down etc. Have Exuberant Witness explain that the Chief has had nothing to with it.

 

- Go back to the Chief who has made it to the Domain. Still not 100% about who the main bad guy is but half way through have a fairly lengthy cutscene where Cortana is revealed, she explains the plan, how she is alive etc., Chief is all confused about her being alive, tells her to stop, she says she can't and she needs to explain and disappears, Blue Team realize they need to stop her.The rest of the mission plays out like normal culminating in a battle against the Warden and the Cortana cutscene where she puts Blue Team in the Cryptum.

 

- The last mission with Osiris is removed and instead the epilogue cutscene plays with Chief being released by Osiris etc.

 

Also forgot to mention all Warden fights would be removed except for the last one.

 

 

 

 

This turned out to be a really long post. I need to study.

 

Study. It's more important than this.

 

 

 

  • As I think we agree, the sparseness of Halo 3's combat areas improves the vehicular gameplay (as did the fact that its largest areas felt larger than anything in Halo 5) due to greater freedom of movement, but made the on-foot combat somewhat less interesting. Whereas the more dense spaces of Halo 5 don't serve vehicle-based gameplay well, they allow more options for infantry combat (although in my experience occasionally ventured into too-dense territory).
  • While I don't think it is particularly meaningful, I will agree that the addition of Clamber made for 'smoother' vertical movement, although the fact that this is achieved through an animation does mean, by necessity, that the process is slower than, for example, a perfectly executed crouch jump. As for the pace of campaign gameplay, it is increased somewhat, although this is very much difficulty-dependent and the relatively unchanged enemy design (particularly in response to the addition of Spartan Abilities) limited the extent of such an increase.

As for your alternative story, that does address some of the many issues with Halo 5 as it currently stands; I would personally go further regarding changes. However, it's not entirely clear (unless I've missed something) what it is exactly that Locke believes the Master Chief to be guilty of in your alternate. 

 

 

 

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Haha. Yeah, I'm sure people can't wait to buy another Halo filled with the same game breaking mechanics that caused them to stop playing Halo 5.

Different people want different things. Shocking!
Oh no, I forgot that you represent the entire Halo community, which makes your opinion undeniable and any contrary opinion is objectively wrong. Plus, you have raw numbers to backup your opinion, because as we all know, popularity is an incontestable proof of a game's quality.
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Different people want different things. Shocking!
Oh no, I forgot that you represent the entire Halo community, which makes your opinion undeniable and any contrary opinion is objectively wrong. Plus, you have raw numbers to backup your opinion, because as we all know, popularity is an incontestable proof of a game's quality.

 

To be fair, how else would you gauge a game's quality?

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Different people want different things. Shocking!
Oh no, I forgot that you represent the entire Halo community, which makes your opinion undeniable and any contrary opinion is objectively wrong. Plus, you have raw numbers to backup your opinion, because as we all know, popularity is an incontestable proof of a game's quality.

 

It just so happens that the far majority of people would rather have a real Halo game than 343's gimmicky bullshit version of it. Shocking, I know! I won't say I represent most of the Halo(or ex-Halo) community(although I believe I do), since I obviously can't prove that, but I will state a fact: Halo 5 is currently at #11 on Xbox One's most played list, which is absolutely pathetic for a huge AAA title like Halo. The name "Halo" is huge thanks to HCE, H2, H3, and to a lesser extent, Halo Reach. There is no excuse for a Halo game to fail as miserably as Halo 5 has, unless of course it's absolute garbage, which it is. Like, nobody wants to play this gimmick filled bullshit game. If you think the numbers are bad now, just wait until Halo 6.

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I don't want any new mechanics in halo 6.

Me neither. Halo should evolve without adding new gimmicks every new title while removing older ones that seem to be broken.

 

 

I just want all the mechanics we have now, except we can shoot while doing them (barring realistically sprint because I doubt that will happen).

I would rather see them all gone and go back to a more original Halo feel like in 1-3. I think Halo 5 and its population showed that these gimmicks are not what brings and keeps casuals.

 

I can adapt to them, but would prefer not having to. Clamber is the worst ability in my eyes right now. It adds nothing to the game but being a crutch and let people make sluppy jumps. The worst thing is how its forced upon us everywhere. So many basic jumps on these maps that you cant do without having to use clamber. Oven to BR wing to top Sniper on Coliseum for example.

 

Yeah, I would like to see them gone, but I doubt it will happen.

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To be fair, how else would you gauge a game's quality?

how it plays, how it's designed etc. popularity is good for gauging people's reaction to a product and that's pretty much it.

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Study. It's more important than this.

 

  • As I think we agree, the sparseness of Halo 3's combat areas improves the vehicular gameplay (as did the fact that its largest areas felt larger than anything in Halo 5) due to greater freedom of movement, but made the on-foot combat somewhat less interesting. Whereas the more dense spaces of Halo 5 don't serve vehicle-based gameplay well, they allow more options for infantry combat (although in my experience occasionally ventured into too-dense territory).
  • While I don't think it is particularly meaningful, I will agree that the addition of Clamber made for 'smoother' vertical movement, although the fact that this is achieved through an animation does mean, by necessity, that the process is slower than, for example, a perfectly executed crouch jump. As for the pace of campaign gameplay, it is increased somewhat, although this is very much difficulty-dependent and the relatively unchanged enemy design (particularly in response to the addition of Spartan Abilities) limited the extent of such an increase.

As for your alternative story, that does address some of the many issues with Halo 5 as it currently stands; I would personally go further regarding changes. However, it's not entirely clear (unless I've missed something) what it is exactly that Locke believes the Master Chief to be guilty of in your alternate. 

 

Yup. I can see why those who look for epic vehicle combat would be very disappointed with 5. Personally I don't find vehicle levels all that interesting unless I'm playing coop or it's a Warthog race. I loved H5 due to bigger focus on infantry combat. I think that smoother vertical movement is what allowed the level designers to go a bit more crazy with vertical space. I imagine lesser skilled players would likely get frustrated with the increased verticality without clamber. You don't really want to be considering whether or not you can make that jump mid firefight.

 

Eh, that story idea was something just off the top of my head that kinda spiraled out of control, it's definitely not what I'd consider perfect.

 

 

 

On another note, did we ever find out who that Hearken Owl guy was? He's hilarious:

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ly4nCy9.png

 

 

 

Never seen someone so salty about me liking a game...

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You seem to misunderstand. My double jump would not nerf Halo's normal jump The normal jump would be just like normal Halo, with the double giving extra verticality. It would have a cool down ofc, as we don't want Advanced Warfare. Maps would just be more vertical, which is a good thing.

 

Wallrunning would not be in. Walljumping would be though. Learn2read m9

Double jumps would also increase the distance you can travel horizontally, like Sprint and Thruster. You might think that's fine, as you wouldn't have to put your gun down, but it does reduce the possibilities for creating maps that flow well by removing control from the designer.
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. Like, nobody wants to play this gimmick filled bullshit game.

To be fair, I don't think it's the gimmicks that're killing the population. Reach was one of the most gimmickiest games on the planet, with broken mechanics like armor lock (And Armor Abilities as a whole), or bloom, and people still played the balls out of it. If anything, it'd be a content issue. Most people can only play sweaty Slayer/Arena or Warzone for so long.

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Double jumps would also increase the distance you can travel horizontally, like Sprint and Thruster. You might think that's fine, as you wouldn't have to put your gun down, but it does reduce the possibilities for creating maps that flow well by removing control from the designer.

 

I was thinking more of a vertical jump rather than a forwards pushing one. Hard to explain, I can totally see how a mechanic like that would hurt Halo if added incorrectly. Wall jumping cool as hell though.

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Secret Shnitz, Luxor Station is sick!  I really want to play some 2v2s on it. 

 

Also, Goldleaf's dome is awe inspiring.  I have no clue how that was done. Another map I want to play 2v2s on.

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To be specific, I don't think it's the gimmicks that kill the population. Reach was one of the most gimmickiest games on the planet, with broken mechanics like armor lock (Armor Abilities as a whole), or bloom, and people still played the balls out of it. If anything, it'd be a content issue. Most people can only play sweaty Slayer/Arena or Warzone for so long.

Reach TU is a dream to play compared to Halo 5. I'm no advocate for armor abilities or bloom, but that stuff is much more tolerable and manageable than all the bullshit that's in Halo 5. Other than dedicated servers and ranking system, I can't think of one thing that Halo 5 improves from Reach TU. Gimmicks are just one big reason why many have moved on from Halo 5.

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how it plays, how it's designed etc. popularity is good for gauging people's reaction to a product and that's pretty much it.

I specifically meant within the context of an argument. The two factors you proposed are subjective and therefore, while not impossible to argue, are made incredibly difficult due to the highly specific nature of the ensuing debate. You'd have to find a common ground with the opponent and then reason that the current design decisions are not commensurate with this common ground, as the only way to flaw an opinion is to make the user themselves not believe it.

 

For example: "You like Halo being fast (right?) That's good. I like Halo being fast, too. Here are objective evidences that Sprint doesn't make Halo fast. It's only a problem if you wanted Halo to be fast...but you said you did. Here's what would make Halo faster without needing Sprint."

 

It takes a lot of work and is never really an ace in the hole. Popularity at least gives you an idea as to how many people are still enjoying the game's design after a time, rendering the existence of a large positive opinion as an objective fact that can be repeatedly quoted and referenced devoid of any argumentative context. The higher the population for the longest after release, the better.

 

I'm an ODST- Iron on Waypoint. My exact post count is 1,631 and I've watched the year in the semi-casual fanbase unfold. I've dealt with a lot of shit like this.

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I would be fine with a double jump when you press x (BJ) and your left stick is stationary. Right now you would just get a lame 5 foot forward boost, change that to a upwards boost comparable to a regular jump.

 

Also I've been reading this thread since launch. If I was a 343 employee I wouldn't post either. Some of you guys really need to look in the mirror.

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