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Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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That just shows their level of competence and being able to take realistic criticism. You can't expect rainbows and flowers all the time. Trying to filter the voices of those who are getting annoyed at this point is a huge problem with our society in general. I guess 343 has their safe zones ready to go. Sorry but if I have a employee who is doing a garbage job, I confront him bluntly and be assertive. Not pussy foot and worry about tiggering their little feels. 

 

The thing that pissed me off with your post was saying "your Halo".

 

I read "your" as "competitive community". Halo is amazing because there is so many different communities that have been forged because of it. 343 don't want to post here mainly because they view Team Beyond as a bunch of elitist pricks who think that the competitive community is the only viable option.

 

Sure, we may be smarter about game mechanics than the casuals, but that doesn't give you a ticket to shit on them.

 

It's probably too late for this site to get devs posting on it again. I have not been posting about it as much mainly due to all the posters sitting in their high chair bickering when they don't know anything at all that's happening in 343 Industries. It's also why I don't say anything constructive here anymore, as I feel it falls on deaf ears.

 

It's sad for me to say this, as I used to love this place. 

 

tldr no community owns Halo, and anyone who thinks that is delusional

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Argument? I wouldn't call it that - at least not from my perspective. I said I think a lot people look back on games like Halo 3 with rose tinted glasses and gloss over a lot of problems we dealt with while playing those games. Like I said, of course you're entitled to your opinion. :)

 

I do however disagree with the point you made about Reach being better than Halo 5. I had a really good time with post bloom Reach, but I personally prefer Halo 5 as a whole. I'm obviously super biased though :kappa: . 

 

True, is there anyway you can relay this to the gameplay team about gaining an option in the aiming to revert back to beta settings? The new options are great but they don't solve the base problem of the aiming, the aiming speed.

 

Hey guys, for those all wondering about the problems with the aiming, it's very easy to just test and compare yourself. On Halo 5 and CE just slowly move the stick from center to the edge and pay attention to how the aim speed changes. My observations were this; if you consider Halo CE's curve as a straight line, this is what Halo 5s feels like relative to it:

 

2ca64117f6.png

 

The speed at low-tilt is super slow, definitely slower then the other Halo's and is what I think contributes to the sluggishness. This is probably to counter the 'squirrellyness' that Ghost felt, that was never actually there   :ghost: That being said, its slowness makes it feel really unintuitive and if anything more clunky then anything ive ever played on.

 

The mid-tilt feels pretty normal, nothing very funky goin on there other then being a but slow, but closer to full tilt is where we a see a problem that many other were encountering. Around high-tilt, there's a sudden jump to high speed, which a lot of people mistook for aim acceleration. The default aim settings did have some aim acceleration, but not much at all, the jump in speed being very jerky and wonky for some people, and can really mess you up in close range fights.

 

Lastly, you'll notice that jump in speed from low-tilt to medium tilt being a very problematic area, where things go from sluggish to to normal.  That's the spot around the stick were a lot of people say their aims go spastic, myself included, during mid range fights when the enemy starts to move around.

 

This is about as detailed as I can go without getting any hard numbers, and is a good comparison to feel yourself. I really hope they do something about it, but they wont.

 

 

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The thing that pissed me off with your post was saying "your Halo".

 

I read "your" as "competitive community". Halo is amazing because there is so many different communities that have been forged because of it. 343 don't want to post here mainly because they view Team Beyond as a bunch of elitist pricks who think that the competitive community is the only viable option.

 

Sure, we may be smarter about game mechanics than the casuals, but that doesn't give you a ticket to shit on them.

 

It's probably too late for this site to get devs posting on it again. I have not been posting about it as much mainly due to all the posters sitting in their high chair bickering when they don't know anything at all that's happening in 343 Industries. It's also why I don't say anything constructive here anymore, as I feel it falls on deaf ears.

 

It's sad for me to say this, as I used to love this place. 

 

tldr no community owns Halo, and anyone who thinks that is delusional

 

Halo Waypoint owns Halo

Which is exactly why we're  going to see wallrunning in Halo 6

giphy.gif

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Halo Waypoint owns Halo

Which is exactly why we're  going to see wallrunning in Halo 6

 

 

I would actively encourage a form of Double Jumping or Wall Jumping in Halo, as long as we can shoot while doing it of course.

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I would actively encourage a form of Double Jumping or Wall Jumping in Halo, as long as we can shoot while doing it of course.

Isn't this part of the reason clamber and thrust suck? Allowing you to basically reach anywhere on the map at any time, and making that swiss cheese effect happen where there's zero predictability? Don't think double jumps are necessary either. You'd have to scale your maps for them making them pointlessz

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I would actively encourage a form of Double Jumping

See, I was thinking about something similar to this from a Clamber glitch I experience, where, rather than animating my Spartan pulling herself up a wall, she's just "launched" vertically like a jump, and retains all mobility and weapon's use. It's probably my favorite glitch of the bunch. Past map scaling and stuff, I'd be up for it, provided, as you said, we can still keep mobility and weapons out.

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Isn't this part of the reason clamber and thrust suck? Allowing you to basically reach anywhere on the map at any time, and making that swiss cheese effect happen where there's zero predictability? Don't think double jumps are necessary either. You'd have to scale your maps for them making them pointlessz

 

Well, duh, design the maps around that. I don't even think the maps in H5 are that Swiss Cheese, especially at high level.

 

Edit: @@TheIcePrincess I would make Clamber where you can hang on an edge li and then instantly jump out of the edge animation (like Rayman 2, I love that game). You would be able to shoot the whole time, but while you are hanging you would get limited angles. Not sure how it would work in an FPS, but it is an interesting concept.

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Well, duh, design the maps around that. I don't even think the maps in H5 are that Swiss Cheese, especially at high level.

 

Edit: @@TheIcePrincess I would make Clamber where you can hang on an edge like Rayman 2, and then instantly jump out of the edge animation. You would be able to shoot the whole time, but while you are hanging you would get limited angles. Not sure how it would work in an FPS, but it is an interesting concept.

Could work like the earlier Rainbow Six titles, except in a first person view. 

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Well, duh, design the maps around that. I don't even think the maps in H5 are that Swiss Cheese, especially at high level.

 

Edit: @@TheIcePrincess I would make Clamber where you can hang on an edge like Rayman 2, and then instantly jump out of the edge animation. You would be able to shoot the whole time, but while you are hanging you would get limited angles. Not sure how it would work in an FPS, but it is an interesting concept.

Sure you can design maps around it, but ultimately what purpose does it serve? Double jumping would mean scaling jumps that bow require the double jump because its a core mechanic. You're better off just using one regular jump.

 

And wallrunninf doesn't really, to me, have a purpose besides looking like it adds to a skill gap. Dont think it necessary at all

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Argument? I wouldn't call it that - at least not from my perspective. I said I think a lot people look back on games like Halo 3 with rose tinted glasses and gloss over a lot of problems we dealt with while playing those games. Like I said, of course you're entitled to your opinion. :)

 

I do however disagree with the point you made about Reach being better than Halo 5. I had a really good time with post bloom Reach, but I personally prefer Halo 5 as a whole. I'm obviously super biased though :kappa: . 

Or people look back at the raw numbers for games like H2/H3 that had millions of people playing every single day for months/years and then compare those amazing Halo games to what we currently have with Halo 5. Opinions don't matter, raw numbers do. I'll tell you why those games were successful and Halo 5 is not. Halo 2/3 were fun, balanced, and competitive. Balanced sand boxes that weren't cluttered and didn't have a ton of overpowered weapons or snipers that register shots that clearly miss. Also H2/H3 didn't have a ton of game breaking gimmicks like Spartan charge, sprint, clamber, thruster, and ground pound. Sure H3 had equipment, but was nothing to the bullshit we have to deal with in H5(and at least those were map pick-ups). Halo 2/3 had great, epic maps. Halo 5's best map is an oversized remake of Midship and the BTB maps being all forge, what a joke. Why are Halo 5's vehicles and Spartan laser so clunky and terrible in comparison to Halo Reach's? Why do mongooses shoot rockets? Like, who green lighted that shit? There are other reasons why Halo 5 is performing so terribly population-wise(#10 or worse on Most Played), like lack of game types, but I think I've glossed over the big issues. Halo 2 and Halo 3 will go down in history as two of the greatest games of all time while Halo 5 will be soon forgotten.

 

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IMO the more pressing issues with Halo 5 is still lack of content. A Halo Reach esque file browser along with forge and more game types at launch would've been a start.

 

Those things alone could've helped out a ton with population. I had a ton of real life friends who bought and played Halo Reach to play on popular racetracks on forge world/jumping puzzles/do rooster teeth horse challenge type maps/crazy infection maps (speed halo anyone?).

 

I'm not a Reach fanboy, that game just absolutely nailed the "I'm bored and want to dick around and do random shit" category. And I know that was the reason a ton of guys I used to know used to play halo for. Of course the 30ish guys I played with back in the day is an incredibly small sample size, but I'd guess many could relate to this. Just my opinion.

 

Automatics are OP, radar in competitive sucks, some maps (Overgrowth) are questionable. But the casual player won't notice these things. And like it or not, the casual player is what helped make Halo in its glory days.

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Sure you can design maps around it, but ultimately what purpose does it serve? Double jumping would mean scaling jumps that bow require the double jump because its a core mechanic. You're better off just using one regular jump.

 

And wallrunninf doesn't really, to me, have a purpose besides looking like it adds to a skill gap. Dont think it necessary at all

 

You seem to misunderstand. My double jump would not nerf Halo's normal jump The normal jump would be just like normal Halo, with the double giving extra verticality. It would have a cool down ofc, as we don't want Advanced Warfare. Maps would just be more vertical, which is a good thing.

 

Wallrunning would not be in. Walljumping would be though. Learn2read m9

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I don't think Halo 3's on-foot combat was quite as linear and/or banal as this somewhat suggests, and Halo 5's on-foot combat doesn't bring with it a significant increase in the scale of firefights, but perhaps their structure. The Ark, and to a lesser extent The Covenant, Crow's Nest, and Sierra 117 had some great on-foot combat, often with variable elevation the player could exploit, and side paths not telegraphed by a Charge-able surface. One of the better elements of Halo 5's level design was the integration of Spartan Abilities, however, I can't say much of this added anything meaningful to the experience: a weapons cache hidden behind a charge-able wall in Halo 5 would have been hidden by other means in a different Halo. On verticality in particular, I'm not sure that Clamber adds quite as much to the experience as you suggest as, in a similar vein as multiplayer map design, in the absence of the ability the jumps would either be lower, or accomplished using a crouch/grenade jump; a ledge to clamber on in Halo 5 often meant as much as a surface to jump to in a past title. What I would have liked to have seen is the use of Spartan Abilities to introduce light puzzle/platforming elements as a pacing tool (that increases experience variety) in the campaign (there are some small sequences in Halo 5 that might be described as such, but that is being rather generous). 
 
 

 

The trope isn't just that the AI turns 'evil,' but also that they are working in a tyrannical fashion for the 'greater good,' and there is some question regarding whether such work would, in fact, achieve a better outcome (but ultimately freedom is the primary issue), but otherwise yes, the Cortana-Chief connection does provide a slight twist (though I'm not sure its entirely a new one, I would imagine that at some point something similar has been explored in science fiction). However, the path 343i have taken to get to this point, which may elicit some interesting exploration of Chief's psyche, utterly devalues the death of Cortana, the emotional climax Halo 4 built up to over its eight missions, and abandons any examination of the effect of that on John 117. Obviously whether humanity being the weak(er) party in the Halo universe is better for its story or not is a matter of taste, but after that being that case for every Halo game until 2012, I was ready for something different.
 
 

 

The biggest reason the Locke-Chief mission ratio hurt the game, as I said earlier, was that it meant that the true conflict of Halo 5, that with Cortana, was allowed very little screen time and development, as there is much less one can do in that regard when Locke is the primary character as opposed to the Master Chief.

 

I'm only going to briefly respond this because I should be studying...

 

-  I don't think H3's levels are bad in anyway, they're just less dense and more simple than H5's. The scale in H5 has definitely been increased fairly substantially though, they're are very few on foot areas of 3 that are as big as a lot of 5's levels. There are obviously very large scale levels in 3 but they're also quite sparse and as such massively encourage you to use vehicles. That's the aspect which I think H5 nails, it manages to have large scale areas without them feeling empty, it's very content dense with each play space offering a lot of options.

 

-  I completely disagree regarding the Spartan abilities. The obvious introduction of the smashable walls isn't particularly game changing but the way the play spaces are designed with thrust, clamber and sprint in mind makes a massive difference to the gameplay pace. I think the difference with clamber is not that it just increases the height at which you can climb to, it's how smooth it makes vertical movement. Jumping up in previous games has always been a little bit clunky, a crouch jump is more skillful than just clambering but it's no where near as smooth or fast. You don't need to think about whether or not you can make the jump in H5, I think this allows players to be far more creative in their vertical movement because they don't need to worry about fucking up a jump by half a cm. This is obviously reflected in the level design with just how vertical the levels are compared to previous Halos.

 

-  I do agree that having some form of platforming section would be awesome. It's something I've already thought about, I'd happily replace the non-combat missions (although I did the break from the action they offered) with a platforming section. The cutscene where Locke and Osiris are chasing the Chief and blue team across those platforms with the teleporters would have been awesome to play for example.

 

 

 

Yeah I agree the way H5 handled the reintroduction of Cortana was less than ideal. Without completely changing the structure of the campaign, some changes I would make off the top of my head would be:

 

 

- Take out the first mission with Osiris (even though the snow theme was awesome).

 

- Start the game with Chief and Blue team being briefed about the Guardians and being sent to Meridian to investigate the one buried there.

 

- Basically replace Locke and Osiris with Chief and blue team for all of the Meridian missions, explore some of the effects of Cortana's death on the Chief along the way.

 

- Finish that string with a cutscene that introduces the Warden. He tries to stop the Chief but is teleported away then the cutscene hints towards Cortana being involved but doesn't explicitly show her followed by Blue team being mysteriously teleported away.

 

- Cut to Osiris being briefed about the Chief's disappearance immediately preceding Meridian being destroyed by the Guardian, considering the possibility that Chief may be the bad guy, then Osiris gets sent to Sanghelios.

 

- Keep the Sanghelios missions largely the same except replace the Warden fight with Jul M'dama, followed by Osiris being teleported away with the Guardian.

 

- Cut to Blue team on Genesis, again largely the same except that Blue team are trying to figure out what's going on and there's still only hints of Cortana. Maybe add an extra Blue Team mission here.

 

- Cut back to Osiris who're on the side of the Guardian. Change Exuberant Witness's so that she doesn't really know what's going on except that the Warden is here and that someone is controlling him and causing the Guardians to teleport in. Change it so that Locke still thinks the Chief is bad and is telling him to stand down etc. Have Exuberant Witness explain that the Chief has had nothing to with it.

 

- Go back to the Chief who has made it to the Domain. Still not 100% about who the main bad guy is but half way through have a fairly lengthy cutscene where Cortana is revealed, she explains the plan, how she is alive etc., Chief is all confused about her being alive, tells her to stop, she says she can't and she needs to explain and disappears, Blue Team realize they need to stop her.The rest of the mission plays out like normal culminating in a battle against the Warden and the Cortana cutscene where she puts Blue Team in the Cryptum.

 

- The last mission with Osiris is removed and instead the epilogue cutscene plays with Chief being released by Osiris etc.

 

Also forgot to mention all Warden fights would be removed except for the last one.

 

 

 

 

This turned out to be a really long post. I need to study.

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The thing that pissed me off with your post was saying "your Halo".

 

I read "your" as "competitive community". Halo is amazing because there is so many different communities that have been forged because of it. 343 don't want to post here mainly because they view Team Beyond as a bunch of elitist pricks who think that the competitive community is the only viable option.

 

Sure, we may be smarter about game mechanics than the casuals, but that doesn't give you a ticket to shit on them.

 

It's probably too late for this site to get devs posting on it again. I have not been posting about it as much mainly due to all the posters sitting in their high chair bickering when they don't know anything at all that's happening in 343 Industries. It's also why I don't say anything constructive here anymore, as I feel it falls on deaf ears.

 

It's sad for me to say this, as I used to love this place.

 

tldr no community owns Halo, and anyone who thinks that is delusional

Other than bravo updates on reddit(which are not really community interaction) and the forge guy(who is awesome) has any 343 employee really posted anywhere post launch?

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Other than bravo updates on reddit(which are not really community interaction) and the forge guy(who is awesome) has any 343 employee really posted anywhere post launch?

I dont think forum interaction is that important, its the fact that they have not made any adjustements to various parts of the game at all, and their "sustain" model (which I still laugh that people bought into) has somehow ended up with less new content after 3 months than other Halos.

 

The forge guy can do that because it looks like the Forge department  is a separate entitiy from the rest of the MP team, and consists of only a couple of people.

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Other than bravo updates on reddit(which are not really community interaction) and the forge guy(who is awesome) has any 343 employee really posted anywhere post launch?

How does Bravo's interactions on reddit not count as community interaction rofl

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I dont think forum interaction is that important, its the fact that they have not made any adjustements to various parts of the game at all, and their "sustain" model (which I still laugh that people bought into) has somehow ended up with less new content after 3 months than other Halos.

 

The forge guy can do that because it looks like the Forge department is a separate entitiy from the rest of the MP team, and consists of only a couple of people.

I know. Im just saying that its pretty ridiculous to point fingers and say this community is doing things wrong and that is why they don't post here because they don't post anywhere.

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How does Bravo's interactions on reddit not count as community interaction rofl

He doesn't engage in discussion. A well programmed bot could replace bravo.

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I don't want any new mechanics in halo 6.

 

I just want all the mechanics we have now, except we can shoot while doing them (barring realistically sprint because I doubt that will happen).

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Oh would you look at that, I've been randomly selected to win an iPhone 7 thanks beyond!!

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I don't want any new mechanics in halo 6.

 

I just want all the mechanics we have now, except we can shoot while doing them (barring realistically sprint because I doubt that will happen).

I'd like them to change clamber so you can do it backwards.

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He doesn't engage in discussion. A well programmed bot could replace bravo.

No, that's not how it works. You can't twist the definition of interaction to suit your needs. 

 

If you want to say the developer discussions between r/halo and Bravo is poor, then that'd be more suited.

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The thing that pissed me off with your post was saying "your Halo".

 

I read "your" as "competitive community". Halo is amazing because there is so many different communities that have been forged because of it. 343 don't want to post here mainly because they view Team Beyond as a bunch of elitist pricks who think that the competitive community is the only viable option.

I don't think the main argument on this website is that Halo 5 isn't competitive rofl. If anything I see WAYY more posts here on how Arena is too sweaty.

 

The main argument I believe involves how little content there is in the game to support a community as a whole. Things like File Share, Forge, File Browser, good Custom Game options, real Social Playlists, robust Theater Mode, split-screen, vehicular combat, game types, a focused and easy to digest narrative, and more are things that keep people playing Halo. These are things that Halo has had 9 years ago, yet suddenly are missing. This isn't even diving into the smaller issues of things like AI behavior, cluttered sandbox, or how certain mechanics slow down the pace of the game, regardless of the faster kill times and the illusion of faster movement.

 

We get it, 343i what's best for Halo. So does everyone, regardless of how extreme there ideologies seem. I'm sick of these "343 apologist" or "CE or Bust" labels. Chill the fuck out.

 

EDIT: @@heytred is right though, a LOT of people look at Halo 3 with rose tinted glasses. How can anyone think that the regenerator was a good idea. Or the randomness of precision weapons. I personally don't mind the big slow-movement complaint though since strafing was still viable and the maps were made to accommodate that.

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