Jump to content
CyReN

Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

Recommended Posts

I'm going to sound like a cynical asshat here, but holy shit is Arena Breakout a horrible gametype. Regular Breakout at least "works" with an SMG and Magnum, because the Magnum can easily contest and kick the SMG's ass, and losing a teammate isn't "horrible" since you can still take on other users, due to the game's increased pace. Arena Breakout is just bad since the AR is still "OP" in relation to the sandbox, and losing one teammate is a drastic advantage for the other team, since the teamshot is real with the longer killtimes. It's frustrating.

 

I will say that the only thing that Arena Breakout does well is that counter-capping the flag when down a man can happen often. Other than that, it's okay. Definitely not that enjoyable compared to flag or SH.

Share this post


Link to post

Lol wat?

 

Come on now this sort of comment is just straight up ridiculous.

Funny thing is that the whilst H5 definitely doesn't have the best IQ, the picture you linked is incredibly clean, especially in comparison to that Bloodborne image. I'm genuinely curious where you think the jaggies are in that image...

 

I do think it's funny you're trying to put H5's visuals down by comparing it to 30fps games running on a more powerful machine as well.

1. Halo 5 does not have dated visuals. For a 60fps game running on the X1 it is a pretty damn good looking game (as is CoD actually, they're typically fairly good in the visuals department)

 

2. Fair enough.

 

3. Not even remotely true. 5's AI may not be the best in the series but it's still fairly good. It effectively uses its surroundings and is pretty good at flanking you.

 

4. I've said this before but as a standalone story I agree, H5 is pretty meh, as setup for H6 though it's very good.

 

Even if all these were true that hardly makes it even remotely similar to a CoD campaign. Seriously saying "it's just CoD" is quite possibly the laziest criticism you can throw at Halo...

 

 

 

I think H5 is the best playing Halo campaign we've ever had.

 

It has large open arenas filled with multiple routes, flanking opportunities and hidden areas allowing for a number of different approaches and tactics for each encounter. It's extremely high paced and absolutely jam packed with action. This is the first Halo where the game actually gives you a sense of being a badass Spartan. You're fast, agile and able to absolutely destroy your enemies. Where it lacks in the larger vehicle set pieces I think it more than makes up for it in the absolutely sublime on foot combat.

Ok, well I think were just going to have to agree to disagree. If you think COD games look good then were just not speaking the same language.

Share this post


Link to post

I'm going to sound like a cynical asshat here, but holy shit is Arena Breakout a horrible gametype. Regular Breakout at least "works" with an SMG and Magnum, because the Magnum can easily contest and kick the SMG's ass, and losing a teammate isn't "horrible" since you can still take on other users, due to the game's increased pace. Arena Breakout is just bad since the AR is still "OP" in relation to the sandbox, and losing one teammate is a drastic advantage for the other team, since the teamshot is real with the longer killtimes. It's frustrating.

 

Reach in the book, was a massive, but short battle, one where you felt a sense of urgency for people to make a move in the book, or else they'd lose nearly everything. The UNSC was almost never the "top dog" and were basically being whittled down in the fight, since the Covenant quickly replaced those who fell, or quickly slaughtered those to make the odds stack even more against the UNSC. In the game, the UNSC are somehow able to hold the Covies back for 2 months, delaying massive armies with their own armies, and come off as an "even force" rather than one that's delaying an inevitable dark reality in which Reach remains as the last "guardian" to Earth. 

 

It felt like just another battle in Halo, not one that could end with Humanity's utter defeat and demise as a whole.

do they come off as an even force though? everything they do they eventually fail at, kats plan went to shit because they blew the carrier out of the sky, the slipspace bomb did nothing since more covenant showed up moments after that not to mention they lost the savanna, the end where you are literally the only one left and get overpowered, with a dying planet in the background, one of the only things that goes the unscs way is the evac of a few civilians, even many of those end up getting squashed, that and the fending off of the corvette at sword base, but that meant nothing in the long run since the covies eventually got it in the end, making the victory meaningless.

 

reach just gave me the feeling that with every victory there was a comparatively larger sense of loss that followed, with the eventuality being that the planet was simply lost.

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

 

Reach in the book, was a massive, but short battle, one where you felt a sense of urgency for people to make a move in the book, or else they'd lose nearly everything. The UNSC was almost never the "top dog" and were basically being whittled down in the fight, since the Covenant quickly replaced those who fell, or quickly slaughtered those to make the odds stack even more against the UNSC. In the game, the UNSC are somehow able to hold the Covies back for 2 months, delaying massive armies with their own armies, and come off as an "even force" rather than one that's delaying an inevitable dark reality in which Reach remains as the last "guardian" to Earth. 

 

It felt like just another battle in Halo, not one that could end with Humanity's utter defeat and demise as a whole.

It wasn't two months. Not even one. The crew of the Long Night of Solace's objective was the artifact underneath Sword Base, which it sought to uncover until its destruction on August 14th(Nightfall takes place on August 11th, TotS was the 12th). And you certainly don't get the impression that the UNSC is on equal footing with the Covenant when ONE ship has been whooping the planet's entire defense force for two days straight. Nor when after the LNoS is destroyed, its immediately replaced by an entire Covenant fleet.

Share this post


Link to post

 the end where you are literally the only one left and get overpowered, with a dying planet in the background, 

The ending was the only part that I thought actually had any tone comparable to the book. Was truly a good mission. Rest of it was bollocks mulled down by an generally poor story.

Share this post


Link to post

It wasn't two months. Not even one. The crew of the Long Night of Solace's objective was the artifact underneath Sword Base, which it sought to uncover until its destruction on August 14th(Nightfall takes place on August 11th, TotS was the 12th). And you certainly don't get the impression that the UNSC is on equal footing with the Covenant when ONE ship has been whooping the planet's entire defense force for two days straight. Nor when after the LNoS is destroyed, its immediately replaced by an entire Covenant fleet.

The invasion "started" in July 24th, 2552, Winter Contingency hence my months. If you wanted to be generous, the "attack" for ToTS began in August, on the 12th. And I kinda do get that feel, given the Covenant wiped the floor with humanity in the novel, while in the game, the ENTIRETY of the UNSC on Reach at the time can hold off for what was 2 or so weeks, until August 31st. They still kept the Covenant from taking the planet for a loooooooong time.

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

Anyone who honestly prefers Reach's story over Halo CE/2/3's is nothing more than a hipster trying to root for some obscure opinion.

 

ODST was actually good, but I still assign a partial hipster label to them. I know I know, unpopular opinion.

 

Negs inc.

CE has one of my favourite stories in the series. Even if it was fairly basic, the atmosphere and mystery of it all carried it fairly well. The introduction of the flood was also an absolutely fantastic moment.

 

H2 had a very good story but the fact that it was rushed was very clear with the poor ending. The Brutes taking power from the Elites and the subsequent Elite rebellion was awesome. The introduction of the Gravemind was also really, really cool, it turned the Flood from a basic zombies rip off to something truly scary. If it weren't for the weak latter third H2 would easily have my favourite story.

 

3's story was fairly meh honestly, a lot of it felt like filler and nothing much really happens in the first 2 thirds. You run around killing Covenant on Earth kinda aimlessly then suddenly you jump to the Ark, kill Truth, save Cortana and destroy the Ark in the space of 4 missions. Not much happens and it's all extremely predictable.

 

 

I thought Reach had an excellent story. It was much smaller compared to the original series but I thought it was told very well. The constantly building sense of hopelessness culminating in Lone Wolf created a fantastic atmosphere. I think it has the best death in the series with Jorge, the fact that in his sacrifice he believes he has saved Reach, only for it to be immediately followed by a full on invasion is tragic. It obviously doesn't follow Fall of Reach well but I think it's still very, very good and better than the first 3.

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

The ending was the only part that I thought actually had any tone comparable to the book. Was truly a good mission. Rest of it was bollocks mulled down by an generally poor story.

you know what ice YOU'RE BOLLOCKS!!!!

Share this post


Link to post

The invasion "started" in July 24th, 2552, Winter Contingency hence my months. If you wanted to be generous, the "attack" for ToTS began in August, on the 12th. And I kinda do get that feel, given the Covenant wiped the floor with humanity in the novel, while in the game, the ENTIRETY of the UNSC on Reach at the time can hold off for what was 2 or so weeks, until August 31st. They still kept the Covenant from taking the planet for a loooooooong time.

They may have declared Winter Contingency back in the first mission, but the Covenant had no actual intent to assault the planet in its entirety until August 14th. 

 

You do realize that in the lore, sometimes, the UNSC has held off the Covenant for YEARS at a time, right? If the UNSC can wage war for Harvest (a colony thats already glassed and probably has very little, if ANY, strategical importance) for five straight years, and win, I think they can manage to hold off the Covenant long enough for the Fleet of Particular Justice to arrive and snuff them out.

Share this post


Link to post

you know what ice YOU'RE BOLLOCKS!!!!

Ice see we've Reached that point in the discussion.

 

 

Am I cool now guys? Am I??

 

  • Upvote (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post

I think H5 is the best playing Halo campaign we've ever had.

 

It has large open arenas filled with multiple routes, flanking opportunities and hidden areas allowing for a number of different approaches and tactics for each encounter. It's extremely high paced and absolutely jam packed with action. This is the first Halo where the game actually gives you a sense of being a badass Spartan. You're fast, agile and able to absolutely destroy your enemies. Where it lacks in the larger vehicle set pieces I think it more than makes up for it in the absolutely sublime on foot combat.

 

I respect your opinion, but I don't share it (as is often the case where taste and preference are concerned in human interaction).

 

I found Halo 5's level design entirely unimpressive: its 'large, open arenas' could not compete with the size, scope and play options arising from Halo 3's levels. Many levels also centered on underwhelming set pieces; take 'Enemy Lines' for example, the Kraken was little more than moving level geometry, a platform that stopped moving when it was time for the player to interact with it, and an encounter with one process: fly on to the Kraken, defeat the enemies aboard, blow up the core and depart. The Scarab encounters in Halo 3 were far more dynamic, threatening and far more replay-able largely due to the number of ways such an engagement could be approached. Halo 5's vehicle sections also felt hamstrung by the level design, namely the geometry placed to funnel the player down certain paths, an experience that, when compared to Halo 3's vehicle-centric levels appears relatively claustrophobic. On-foot combat may have fared better as you identified, but I was always conscious of the fact that I was generally allowed two paths: the main path, and the elbow I could Spartan Charge into, and the weak enemy AI (in comparison to Halo CE and Reach) and Promethean enemy design (Knights and Watchers were fine; Soldiers and Crawlers need work) left much to be desired.

 

As for Halo 5' story, I've described many of my issues with it here:

 

I personally had a number of issues with the campaign's story:

  • Locke was denied the character development and personality to be able to carry (the vast majority of) a Halo game. What little character we saw from him was also of the bland 'boy scout' variety, with hints at a more interesting character through his past as an ONI operative swatted away. This also means that Locke doesn't really work as the contrast to the Chief he was billed as, and the goal of establishing a player character who is not merely a cypher for the player, and thus addressing the issue some have with Chief as a character, is left not met.
  • Blue Team were wholly underutilized and underdeveloped, which is perhaps a function of the decision to only feature them in three missions of the campaign. This also had the unfortunate side effect of allowing little time to develop Cortana's philosophical transition from Halo 4, which means that again (like Halo 4), 343i have not afforded the requisite screen time to properly develop their 'villain' (although I feel like I'm doing the character a disservice by using that term).
  • The 'Master Chief goes rogue/AWOL' plot essentially amounted to the UNSC preferring that another Spartan team go in search of Cortana, and John not liking that. There was no complex moral battle in which the the motivations and actions of the Master Chief were questioned or actions of ONI were examined, as had been hinted prior to release and as was the undercurrent through much of Karen Traviss' novels and the pre-release material.
  • The hunter/hunted dynamic also fell rather flat, particularly as there was no mystery to the Chief's motivations very early on, and Locke learned and understood this very early on. This stymied character development and examination through what could have been a proper Chief/Locke rivalry, and the plot very much became a two-team race to Cortana, which is much less interesting.
  • Halo 5's story also didn't feel like that of a true sequel to Halo 4, as much as it did a sequel to a game in which Cortana dies. There was very little follow-up on many of Halo 4's other developments, and as such the plot felt both unsatisfying and slightly out of place overall. Extending on this, there are now a number of plots which went unaddressed and left dangling (and which, to my mind at least, should have been advanced in Halo 5) including the Librarian's gift to John through his geas, Chakas/343 Guilty Spark's search for the Lifeshaper (either the Librarian or her replacement), the location/actions of the Forerunners who survived the activation of the Halo array, and so on. There was also some conflict with previously revealed information, such as the Domain supposedly being destroyed.
  • I felt that the return of Cortana so early on somewhat diminished the impact of her 'death' in Halo 4; it was only really the opening cutscene to 'Blue Team' that dealt with the Chief's grief to any significant degree.
  • There are also some more minor issues I had, including Jul being killed off through a cutscene at the end of the campaign's first mission, some odd character moments (unless something happens in Escalation, I would've thought Halsey's meeting with Palmer would have been somewhat less pleasant), the cutscenes themselves were often ending just as they appeared to be heading somewhere interesting (Roland's rant is an example, even if it did feel unwarranted), and there was some rather cringe-worthy dialogue: 'Constructors build things, right? So let's break something.'

 

I don't think the story Halo 5 sets up begins to make its own story good. This type of AI fiction is such a well-worn (and then some) area of science fiction, that it feels, as Haruspis put it, like 343i were 'scraping the bottom of the barrel,' and left me as far from excited about Halo 6: Subtitle's story as possible.An exploration of the effect of the loss of Cortana on the Chief's psyche would have been far more interesting, in this user's opinion, yet Halo 5 hardly explores this outside of the opening cutscene to Blue Team. The Didact would also have made a far better villain, had 343i matched the work Greg Bear did developing the character, within Halo 4 (and afforded him the requisite 'screen time,' as the Didact spent much of Halo 4 in his Cryptum which is not conducive to good character development), and then continued this in Halo 5.

 

I mean, the comics pretty much all but confirmed that the Didact was turned into an AI when he got caught up in the explosion of five Composers. If you kept the Didact, and went ahead with what the comics were laying out for him, we'd get an omnipotent villain WITH a motivation that actually makes sense.

 

Unfortunately, the mutations the Ur-Didact underwent when searching for a way to combat the Flood, as detailed in Halo 4's Terminals, meant that he is not 'compose-able.'

  • Upvote (+1) 5

Share this post


Link to post

You do realize that in the lore, sometimes, the UNSC has held off the Covenant for YEARS at a time, right? If the UNSC can wage war for Harvest (a colony thats already glassed and probably has very little, if ANY, strategical importance) for five straight years, and win, I think they can manage to hold off the Covenant long enough for the Fleet of Particular Justice to arrive and snuff them out.

I referred to Reach specifically in the lore, not other planets, since they're other circumstances. Part of what made Reach's fall the most shocking, was how quickly the Covenant overtook it, despite it being the most important and highly defended planet, behind Earth to the UNSC.

Share this post


Link to post

 

Unfortunately, the mutations the Ur-Didact underwent when searching for a way to combat the Flood, as detailed in Halo 4's Terminals, meant that he is not 'compose-able.'

I don't know what to tell ya. In the panel where the Didact is caught up in the explosion of the five Composers, he's shown to be in a similar state to those who are part-way through being composed. Then we have Chief and even Brian Reed on twitter telling us that the Didact isn't dead. It really does seem like it was intended for the Didact to be composed.

Share this post


Link to post

I referred to Reach specifically in the lore, not other planets, since they're other circumstances. Part of what made Reach's fall the most shocking, was how quickly the Covenant overtook it, despite it being the most important and highly defended planet, behind Earth to the UNSC.

Problem with that, however, is that it creates the issue of how, exactly, it has taken the Covenant nearly 30 years to get this far. Especially when Humanity is shown to be so powerless in space. You'd think if they placed probes on retreating UNSC ships all the time, they would have found Reach decades ago.

 

That, and I just find the planetary invasion in Halo: Reach to be more interesting, since you actually become acquainted with the planet and its inhabitants. In the book, Reach might as well just be a floating mountain forest in space with a couple of military camps here and there.

Share this post


Link to post

Define irony:

 

This is what a normal Halo arena gameplay should look and feel like, except this guy would be Ogre 2 and instead of a suped-up tier 3 spray weapon, that's a precision utility gun.

 

  • Upvote (+1) 4

Share this post


Link to post

I don't know what to tell ya. In the panel where the Didact is caught up in the explosion of the five Composers, he's shown to be in a similar state to those who are part-way through being composed. Then we have Chief and even Brian Reed on twitter telling us that the Didact isn't dead. It really does seem like it was intended for the Didact to be composed.

 

Oh, don't worry, I'm aware of what was depicted in Halo: Escalation, my concern is that what 343i have produced there seemingly contradicts what they established in Halo 4.

Share this post


Link to post

Oh, don't worry, I'm aware of what was depicted in Halo: Escalation, my concern is that what 343i have produced there seemingly contradicts what they established in Halo 4.

Halo 4 seems to get retconned a lot. Like, remember when Palmer was referred to as a Lieutenant, or when the Mantle's Approach exploded, instead of jumping into slipspace at the last moment?

Share this post


Link to post

Problem with that, however, is that it creates the issue of how, exactly, it has taken the Covenant nearly 30 years to get this far. You'd think placing a probe on a retreating enemy ship would be one of the first things they'd try.

You'd think, but the Covenant are seemingly prone to PLOT, 

 

I don't know what to tell ya. In the panel where the Didact is caught up in the explosion of the five Composers, he's shown to be in a similar state to those who are part-way through being composed. Then we have Chief and even Brian Reed on twitter telling us that the Didact isn't dead. It really does seem like it was intended for the Didact to be composed.

"Though their battle with the Didact was perilous and proved nearly fatal, the Spartans were able to band together, and with the help of 859 Static Carillion they tricked the Didact into using the Composers on himself. Effectively turned into a digital essence, the Office of Naval Intelligence currently considers the Didact “contained”, though it remains to be seen if his threat to humanity is truly at an end."

 

https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/universe/characters/didact

Share this post


Link to post

You'd think, but the Covenant are seemingly prone to PLOT, 

 

"Though their battle with the Didact was perilous and proved nearly fatal, the Spartans were able to band together, and with the help of 859 Static Carillion they tricked the Didact into using the Composers on himself. Effectively turned into a digital essence, the Office of Naval Intelligence currently considers the Didact “contained”, though it remains to be seen if his threat to humanity is truly at an end."

 

https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/universe/characters/didact

sounds like didact and cortana are going to be the halo universes bonnie and clide but on a genocidal scale.

Share this post


Link to post

 

"Though their battle with the Didact was perilous and proved nearly fatal, the Spartans were able to band together, and with the help of 859 Static Carillion they tricked the Didact into using the Composers on himself. Effectively turned into a digital essence, the Office of Naval Intelligence currently considers the Didact “contained”, though it remains to be seen if his threat to humanity is truly at an end."

 

https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/universe/characters/didact

I'm telling ya, the Didact AI, at one point in development, was meant to be the main antagonist of the game. Why else would there be wave after wave of Promethean forces attacking the residents of Meridian Station? Especially when the governor of said station has already sworn allegiance to Cortana?

  • Upvote (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post

4SK pistol and smaller cleaner/simpler maps (which we can get from forge it seems) would make this game so much better.  

 

Also, sprint sucks  :prayers:

  • Upvote (+1) 4

Share this post


Link to post

I'm telling ya, the Didact AI, at one point in development, was meant to be the main antagonist of the game. Why else would there be wave after wave of Promethean forces attacking the residents of Meridian Station? Especially when the governor of said station has already sworn allegiance to Cortana?

it really does seem like h5s story was heavily changed throughout development, i blame brian reed.

Share this post


Link to post

I'm telling ya, the Didact AI, at one point in development, was meant to be the main antagonist of the game. Why else would there be wave after wave of Promethean forces attacking the residents of Meridian Station? Especially when the governor of said station has already sworn allegiance to Cortana?

I was really thinking, and hoping the Didact would return in an AI form like that. There was so much leadup to it, and it could've been so good. And indeed, it makes no real "sense" in the context we had.

Share this post


Link to post

I feel like Halo CE/2/3 art style, game design philosophy, and overall "feeling" vs. Halo 4/5 are like comparing the Original Star Wars (4,5,6) to the Prequels (1,2,3).

 

Just changing the entire essence of a loved franchise, for no reason. People who are invested in a franchise want new experiences, but removing all the nostalgia and replacing it with (unoriginal) elements just pisses off fans and ruins loyalty. I wish 343 would realize that people loved Halo because of how everything looked, sounded, felt, played, etc.

 

Star Wars has now gone back to its former self, with Tie-Fighters, X-Wings, Death Star things, Good vs Evil, likeable characters, practical effects, good story, lots of action with little prepositional/dialogue only scenes, and so on. And guess what? 94% on Rotten Tomatoes, universal hype and love for the movie, and a massive

re-popularization (and profitability for those who are profit driven) of the franchise.

 

News flash 343 - people want Halo, not your unoriginal, uninspired reconstruction of its identity.

I can't imagine any game under Microsoft attempting to rebuild elements that made Halo fascinating in the first place. The next Halo of any legitimate promise will be built by an entirely different team motivated by passion for the ideas, and not Microsoft's pocket book.

 

You can't be contractually mandated to maintain someone else's intellectual property and expect your work to be anywhere near the quality of somebody who chose to make Halo, simply because they wanted to.

Share this post


Link to post

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use & Privacy Policy.