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Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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I doubt its our "tone" has much of anything to do with the lack of communication from 343. 343 just sucks at community interaction in general. They don't even post on thier own forums.

They can't carry out a meaningful discussion on game design because they don't agree even amongst themselves on what the goal is. They act as though accessibility is a priority, yet they pushed ranked matchmaking on thousands of players who were more than happy to go back to Destiny or CoD. They act as though immersion is a goal, yet everything justified by immersion turns out to involve sequestering what little identity--mechanical, aesthetic, or content-related--the series has left in the hope that players from other games (read: extra sales) will not find the latest Halo to be "jarring."

 

In some ways, I don't blame 343 for a lot of what we complain about. It's almost to be expected from a supposed flagship title (and yet CoD is always three steps ahead.... I digress). I don't blame them because they repeatedly try to do the impossible, so it's no wonder why it's never quite right.

 

It's usually something said to individuals just starting out making games, but I suppose it applies to all new studios: for your first projects, keep your vision small; there's a lot of stuff that you want to develop, but if you focus on that stuff, you'll have dug yourself into a hole by the time you get around to what you need to develop.

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Seems pretty identical to reddit halo.

Serious? I have a strong hatred for Waypoint, not for the views they have but the insufferable arguments and accusations that critics of Halo get there.

 

R/halo is rather normal. People don't downvote you to oblivion just because you dislike something.

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Serious? I have a strong hatred for Waypoint, not for the views they have but the insufferable arguments and accusations that critics of Halo get there.

 

R/halo is rather normal. People don't downvote you to oblivion just because you dislike something.

I simply posted that I prefer classic halo movement and I got downvoted so many times that my post was hidden lol.

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It's our tone, I'm sure of it.

 

And I disagree. They WANT to post here and communicate, but its painful to do so.

That's actually an interesting contention.

 

I'm not exactly involved anymore, primarily because my career is far more important than this game series is anymore and I want that $100,000 bonus but going on what I've seen since 343 took the helm with Halo, I'm not sure they, as a group, actually want to communicate. Sure, you have people here and there that go out of their way to converse, primarily in the Forge portion (really, it's great that the feedback is going where it needs to go and has produced pretty damn good results thus far) but ultimately they really don't get the whole "argument" idea that comes with the territory.

 

I'm probably beating a dead horse with it, but "Just Trust Us" is still hilarious to me from a design perspective because all it tells me is that they have no idea what they're doing and trying shit out, just because. Whether or not that's true is irrelevant, because we've seen very few instances that measure up which serve to debunk that idea. @ has certainly been better than 343 as a whole during Halo 4's release considering that we had little to no meaningful interaction up until this point, but that doesn't really excuse the fact that they still haven't really shown us the "why" of their design. 

 

Why the more movement options? What do they do in the overall plan that they have for Halo's development? You can say that giving the player more options makes them feel empowered and that the addition of said options improves the depth of the game, but the real question still remains "why." Why go in that direction? Why change what we had before? Why was what Halo was not good enough? Why is this better? Why is this design optimal?

 

I mean, it's a video game. Maybe it's cliche to debase the importance of the subject matter because of how little difference it makes in the long run, but surely there's some merit to it which is why I suppose it's easy to overestimate that merit and just blow off the responsibility of having to explain one's decisions regarding their design, but in any craft that has ever existed in human history designers make it a point to takes notes on why their formulas function or at least why they function in theory. Any good designer can explain why they're doing what they're doing because there is usually some purpose behind all of it. A bad designer will do no such thing, and if they find success it generally will have been accidental with given a lack of intent behind their decision making. A good designer can answer questions and concerns regarding their design, because along the way they will have likely encountered issues and problems that would naturally guide their design choice given their working parameters. A bad designer will be incapable of doing this since it's likely that any problem they may have had is either overlooked for the sake of flat production or was addressed in a manner that did not actively identify the problem or its proper solution.

 

And what we have here is over a decade's worth of work put into these games, with vast quantities of data and theory-crafting that should have been more than enough to at least allow for some marginal amount of room for change for the better with a reasonable likelihood that problems were identified and investigated in order to come to a proper conclusion as to how to fix it or simply with what could work and what couldn't. The latter idea is a tad bit more awkward since Halo wasn't able to be altered on the fly until around Reach and Halo 4 so the products given from CE-3 were rather static, so that is a given issue, but realistically speaking the changes that occurred since then still should have some sort of argument as to why they were necessary or at least desirable.

 

So, back to the original quoted post, why haven't they really said anything? Where's the apologetics portion of their design? It's not like it's impossible or a waste of time. Indeed, they'd save face by explaining why it is they went with what they did, and discussing it in detail. So why haven't they told us? The most probable conclusion that I can come up with is that they really just don't want to, that's it's too much of a hassle to explain themselves. The other probable conclusion is that they know that their reasoning behind the changes and overall design will not be taken well either because it shows a lack of thinking or that the thinking is flawed or forced. I don't pretend to know. The only thing I know is that discussion between the community and the developer regarding design has been rather limited and so we have the reactions that we've seen thus far.

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I simply posted that I prefer classic halo movement and I got downvoted so many times that my post was hidden lol.

Meh. Different experiences. I prefer r/Halo over Waypoint by far, except for one person on there who just makes me want to blow my brains out

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Lets not bash other communities. We're better than that.

No. We are not.

 

The majority of the people in this forum, in this community, are bitter and angry fans that jab other forums and each other on a weekly basis. We have pages of people constantly repeating their distaste to how Halo is being treated, and pages of said people expressing their hateful disdain to the developer. We have countless posts of hurtful, disrespectful comments about Waypoint, the Halo Reddit, NeoGAF, and even Youtube's Halo Follower and Greenskull. We have groups that give positive interaction with each and every chance they get, but are shunned and ignored by the overpowering negativity. We have groups that spread their misery of the game for the fortieth fucking time and yet still stay on the forum. We have hypocrites. We have smart people. We have shit posters. We have Halo experts.

 

We are no different from the established forums of before. We're just a bunch of Halo fans who can't take it anymore.

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I simply posted that I prefer classic halo movement and I got downvoted so many times that my post was hidden lol.

Mind linking the post then? From what I can tell, most downvotes on r/halo occur because of the poster having a bad attitude, and not because they have an unpopular opinion.

 

(Source: I've got over 5,000 link karma and 3,000 comment karma, the vast majority of which was gotten from that sole subreddit. It's not a whole lot, but it does show that I've got some experience with that community.)

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Mind linking the post then? From what I can tell, most downvotes on r/halo occur because of the poster having a bad attitude, and not because they have an unpopular opinion.

 

(Source: I've got over 5,000 link karma and 3,000 comment karma, the vast majority of which was gotten from that sole subreddit. It's not a whole lot, but it does show that I've got some experience with that community.)

I do mind. If you care you can search me. Same name. I have like 10 posts there.

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I do mind. If you care you can search me. Same name. I have like 10 posts there.

From the looks of it, it was definitely your tone that got you a bunch of downvotes.

 

In your last deleted thread, you apparently had a holocaust comparison somewhere in there, and may have insulted the Reddit community.

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So, I've spent a week working on something in Forge. Got on today, and immediately, as I try to do something, it crashes. I was going to break my TV over my knee, but decided to come here first to see if anyone had suffered the issue, or had a fix, for it. Does anyone?

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So, I've spent a week working on something in Forge. Got on today, and immediately, as I try to do something, it crashes. I was going to break my TV over my knee, but decided to come here first to see if anyone had suffered the issue, or had a fix, for it. Does anyone?

Did you delete your initial spawn points?

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So, I've spent a week working on something in Forge. Got on today, and immediately, as I try to do something, it crashes. I was going to break my TV over my knee, but decided to come here first to see if anyone had suffered the issue, or had a fix, for it. Does anyone?

Define crashing

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So, I've spent a week working on something in Forge. Got on today, and immediately, as I try to do something, it crashes. I was going to break my TV over my knee, but decided to come here first to see if anyone had suffered the issue, or had a fix, for it. Does anyone?

 

If you mean you were frozen, unable to move or do anything except open the start menu and leave the match, then yes.  It's a common bug that 343I still hasn't said anything about.

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Oh, I found the issue. Turns out I'd somehow grouped and welded the ENTIRE structure of my thing together and then tried to duplicate it, when I thought I was only duplicating a small section, which must've overloaded the BALLS out of it. Couldn't tell since I'd focused right in on it. Pulled the camera back and saw the sheer blinding light of the selection, flashing in my retinas.

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Oh, I found the issue. Turns out I'd somehow grouped and welded the ENTIRE structure of my thing together and then tried to duplicate it, when I thought I was only duplicating a small section, which must've overloaded the BALLS out of it. Couldn't tell since I'd focused right in on it. Pulled the camera back and saw the sheer blinding light of the selection, flashing in my retinas.

Forge's learning curve is very deep.

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It's our tone, I'm sure of it.

 

And I disagree. They WANT to post here and communicate, but its painful to do so. 

Every single gaming community that has more than a few hundred people is pretty much guaranteed to have their fair share of bitter, vitriolic posters. Part of being a good game dev is acknowledging this fact.

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I apologize in advance because of what I'm about to say, but you are so fucking naive.

 

How could you possibly know that? How could you possibly speak in behalf of their desires

Because I do. I'm not guessing or anything, that would be stupid and, like you said, naive. 

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