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Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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Isn't that the pro team's job?

 

Them and other play testers. What I meant is rather than hiring people who specialize in competitive 4v4 Halo, they should hire people who find it more enjoyable to spend 12 hours a day breaking out of the map. For all I know they could already have those guys there but that all I meant by it.

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But they're not communicating here, are they?

 

I have a pretty good hunch devs don't post here because it's how people act here and not just because the game is out. The insults don't have to be directly at them to be turned off at the idea of interacting with us.

 

Like I said. They're interacting with people. Just not here and there are reasons to that

I'm gonna expand on that.

 

As a regular member of both Team Beyond and ForgeHub, I can safely say that ForgeHub has significantly less dev bashing.

 

But make no mistake, the community doesn't kiss up to 343. In fact, I'd say it's the opposite. They're pretty vocal about their criticism, but they don't resort to insulting the developers. Hell, if you had members of both communities criticize Overgrowth, you'd probably end up with something like this:

 

"Overgrowth's bad weapon placement shows how incompetent 343 is."

 

"Overgrowth's weapon placement is shit."

 

(Just to clarify, it's pretty obvious the two statements aren't true for everyone. But for the most part, these are the impressions that I have from both communities after being a part of them both this long.)

 

Now, both comments are being negative about the map. In fact, the second is even more negative than the first. However, the fact that it avoids insulting the developer has a different result. Both outline the issue, but one drives away the developer, whereas the other encourages discussion by highlighting its severity.

 

At ForgeHub, a 343 dev sat in the shoutbox and listened to us. However, he didn't get defensive about our criticism, and in fact, completely acknowledged it. We were blunt about problems, but at the same time, we didn't drive him away. The result was that tons of questions were answered, new bugs were reported, and we were given new information. It was a win-win situation for both parties.

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I like that 343 has the pro team but I've always thought it was real important to have game exploiting assholes be part of the test team.

 

As a game exploiting asshole myself, I can confirm their importance. I've noticed that the more creative Forgers and map developers tend to over focus on structure and spend less time insuring that it is completely closed, and safe against exploits or potential exploits. Getting boring and meticulous people like myself to test the boundaries of some game environment (namely walking and jumping at map geometry, in Halo's case) for a few hours is usually pretty helpful in debugging a level, and its even more helpful if you give those people time to analyze geometry bsps and load up .scenario files in Sapien (or via however Halo 5's maps are edited/compiled. I haven't seen much information about this version of blam!) if you want to be really safe.

 

Ultimately, however, the best practical way to fully debug maps is to either beta test maps in some kind of beta platform, or to simply release a map with the intent of fix any problems it encounters quickly. Companies like Valve seem to use both methods, although in their case they also simply make heavily tested community made content official as well, which eases their own workload.

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Why bother trying to communicate with people here when all it takes are a few members who just bash them to turn them away? Maybe if people here grow up and not act immature things might change.

 

Bravo is always talking on Reddit and Heytred posts here as well. It's not like they aren't here it's just whenever someone posts then it brings out the best and worst of people, mostly the latter.

 

It's posts like these that remind me just how little of an understanding the average halo player has of the historical relationship between the devs and the players.

 

Yeah, It was probably CursedLemon making a backhanded comment about the devs hating halo that made them all leave. Funny how josh had no problem posting on Beyond when he was trying to sell us something...

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As a game exploiting asshole myself, I can confirm their importance. I've noticed that the more creative Forgers and map developers tend to over focus on structure and spend less time insuring that it is completely closed, and safe against exploits or potential exploits. Getting boring and meticulous people like myself to test the boundaries of some game environment (namely walking and jumping at map geometry, in Halo's case) for a few hours is usually pretty helpful in debugging a level, and its even more helpful if you give those people time to analyze geometry bsps and load up .scenario files in Sapien (or via however Halo 5's maps are edited/compiled. I haven't seen much information about this version of blam!) if you want to be really safe.

 

Ultimately, however, the best practical way to fully debug maps is to either beta test maps in some kind of beta platform, or to simply release a map with the intent of fix any problems it encounters quickly. Companies like Valve seem to use both methods, although in their case they also simply make heavily tested community made content official as well, which eases their own workload.

 

I still laugh. 

 

Valve fixed it in about 24 hours if I recall correctly.

 

It's posts like these that remind me just how little of an understanding the average halo player has of the historical relationship between the devs and the players.

 

Yeah, It was probably CursedLemon making a backhanded comment about the devs hating halo that made them all leave. Funny how josh had no problem posting on Beyond when he was trying to sell us something...

I wouldn't blame one person, that's just entirely unfair. 

 

We're all aware of the backseat posters who will constantly joke about immersion and remind us daily that they hate modern Halo. Once a developer does jump in and post, these same posters will come in and do their usual stuff, which results in them leaving again. 

 

Like I said earlier, if you have something constructive to say, please - go ahead and say it. While you may not get a response, I can guarantee you it is being read. Same for every other popular community out there.

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I'm gonna expand on that.

 

As a regular member of both Team Beyond and ForgeHub, I can safely say that ForgeHub has significantly less dev bashing.

 

But make no mistake, the community doesn't kiss up to 343. In fact, I'd say it's the opposite. They're pretty vocal about their criticism, but they don't resort to insulting the developers. Hell, if you had members of both communities criticize Overgrowth, you'd probably end up with something like this:

 

"Overgrowth's bad weapon placement shows how incompetent 343 is."

 

"Overgrowth's weapon placement is shit."

 

(Just to clarify, it's pretty obvious the two statements aren't true for everyone. But for the most part, these are the impressions that I have from both communities after being a part of them both this long.)

 

Now, both comments are being negative about the map. In fact, the second is even more negative than the first. However, the fact that it avoids insulting the developer has a different result. Both outline the issue, but one drives away the developer, whereas the other encourages discussion by highlighting its severity.

 

At ForgeHub, a 343 dev sat in the shoutbox and listened to us. However, he didn't get defensive about our criticism, and in fact, completely acknowledged it. We were blunt about problems, but at the same time, we didn't drive him away. The result was that tons of questions were answered, new bugs were reported, and we were given new information. It was a win-win situation for both parties.

I'm sure a big part of that is the relative quality of the features. Forge is heads and above the best it's ever been, Tom French is literally Jesus for all I know.

 

On the other hand, MM and all the in game content related to us is really lacking, and whether you like the gameplay or not, has mountains of glaring issues.

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Them and other play testers. What I meant is rather than hiring people who specialize in competitive 4v4 Halo, they should hire people who find it more enjoyable to spend 12 hours a day breaking out of the map. For all I know they could already have those guys there but that all I meant by it.

 

There are safe and kill volumes within Forge that make it trivial to designate which parts of the map are fair game. It would take like 10 minutes to place them.

 

It makes zero sense that this kind of thing is still an issue, regardless of the QA situation at 343.

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I agree we have some regulars here who shit on 343 with no substance behind it. But I also don't like when devs pick out obvious trolls over constructive criticism and then leave.

 

I understand why Frankie would leave TB, yet the dude maybe answered 2 or 3 of our actual concerns before arguing with trolls and promptly leaving after that, whereas in Tom French's case he ignores douchebag trolls on twitter but is very open to constructive criticism and ideas- he's answered a fair amount of my questions on there.

 

I want an amiable relationship with devs, and it goes two ways. However, THEY hold the keys to the house. Leaving the majority of us in the dark over minor trolls feels petty to me, especially when the good overwhelms the bad.

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I agree we have some regulars here who shit on 343 with no substance behind it. But I also don't like when devs pick out obvious trolls over constructive criticism and then leave.

 

I understand why Frankie would leave TB, yet the dude maybe answered 2 or 3 of our actual concerns before arguing with trolls and promptly leaving after that, whereas in Tom French's case he ignores douchebag trolls on twitter but is very open to constructive criticism and ideas- he's answered a fair amount of my questions on there.

 

I want an amiable relationship with devs, and it goes two ways. However, THEY hold the keys to the house. Leaving the majority of us in the dark over minor trolls feels petty to me, especially when the good overwhelms the bad.

 

Frankie is no stranger to trolls. He's been active on GAF since the Halo 2 days and after Reach, GAF was not pleasant to Bungie. He knows how to dodge them. The only time he brings them attention is when he needs a scapegoat to not address legitimate concerns. Don't blame Beyond on him never coming here. No matter what how constructive our post were, he was going to find a reason to leave.

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1-50 H2 ranking system

I agree with most of this post, but whilst a bit bugged, Halo 5's ranking system is better as you always have a higher number to achieve, or if you're number 1 you have to hold it. Once 50 in H2/3 it was create a new account or nothing.

 

What's super frustrating is that MCC was supposed to be what you described but my God was that a fuck up.

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Frankie is no stranger to trolls. He's been active on GAF since the Halo 2 days and after Reach, GAF was not pleasant to Bungie. He knows how to dodge them. The only time he brings them attention is when he needs a scapegoat to not address legitimate concerns. Don't blame Beyond on him never coming here. No matter what how constructive our post were, he was going to find a reason to leave.

I'm not blaming Beyond; I'm saying I understand why he would leave on a site that is in opposition to the direction of Halo. Not saying it's right, but I undertand the thought process.

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I agree that shit posting when devs post isn't constructive at all, but lets be real when do they EVER quote the people with legitimate concerns and actually answer them? A few posters making smart ass comments is not an excuse to not communicate with your audience.

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I agree with most of this post, but whilst a bit bugged, Halo 5's ranking system is better as you always have a higher number to achieve, or if you're number 1 you have to hold it. Once 50 in H2/3 it was create a new account or nothing.

Haven't touched H5 in a long time, but IIRC, In H5's ranking system, players can't fall out of divisions, except for champion(if you want to call it a division). Also, if they're going to have seasons, they should indicate in the player's in-game service record which ranks they were in previous seasons similar to Reach. For example, if someone put in the effort to end season 1 as Champion #5 and then season 2 as Champion #7, then there should be some sort of recognition for that.

 

The original Halo 2 ranking system still goes down as my favorite. I think if H2's ranking system were coupled with something similar to H3's playlist exp, then that would be more incentive for people to search on their 50's. I knew a lot of players that would search on their 50's in H3.

 

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Somebody in here earlier said some people don't even know why they enjoy or don't enjoy a game. I noticed something interesting about that quote because something similar happened to me.

Lately, I've been playing Black Ops 3 (keep in mind, I've hated COD since modern warfare 3) and Star Wars Battlefront. I noticed I have been having an awfully a lot of fun playing these games. I can't quite figure it out why but I think it's because they both have casual and social playlist with a TON of contents. The fact I could play games laid back not being sweaty 24/7 and I had a lot of other options to play if I get tired of a certain playlist.

@@Sal1ent, Again, I strongly urge you to bring back all of the classic game type back ASAP and add real social playlist. I am 99% sure we will see a nice bump in population if people found out their favorite classic game type will be back.

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So I'm a competitive player at heart, but I agree and relate to the sentiment of wanting a social experience that's relatively equivalent to the ranked experience in its offerings with merely changes in ranking. 

 

I'd also like an exclusively Objective 4v4 playlist offering in some form, especially if they'd consider the advent of new and older Objective gametypes added to the game.

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One little thing that bothers me about Halo 5 is no campaign scoring/campaign timing.  It's really not THAT big of a deal, but it would help the game feel more complete and it would add some replay value to the campaign.  

 

Or maybe I just enjoy dropping overkills on grunts, IDK.  

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Yeah, It was probably CursedLemon making a backhanded comment about the devs hating halo that made them all leave.

 

Not even that, he was apparently offended by my signature and lemon just responded to that. Frankie was just seeking after playing the role of the victim from the beginning. For whatever reason.

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Once 50 in H2/3 it was create a new account or nothing.

 

in H3, yes ... in H2 I'm pretty sure FB peaked at about 41/42 in the Team Hardcore playlist lol

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You can put a lot of threat and dmg by yourself in this game.

Not enough to make teamshooting anything but the only viable strategy in every game.

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I agree with most of this post, but whilst a bit bugged, Halo 5's ranking system is better as you always have a higher number to achieve, or if you're number 1 you have to hold it. Once 50 in H2/3 it was create a new account or nothing.

I thought the ranking system's goal was to provide skill-based matches? I don't understand where the need to make a new account is. You shouldn't seek to improve through a numerical representation, but through skill and game knowledge itself. I know once I was a 50 in Halo 3, the goal was to win and learn as much as possible while maintaining that 50 and Bungie's addition of playlist EXP/progression ranks in TU2 helped incentivize that a lot. 

 

While the system that separates people even at the highest level is cool (Halo 5's ranks), it's pointless if some people can't find matches, because those players don't have a chance at being #1 despite being better than the other person who's not as good but keeps finding matches all the time.

 

In this regard, I'd much rather have matches all the time with a skill measurement ceiling than have an uncapped individual rating and being unable to find matches... but matchmaking times aside, Halo 5's system is better (minus the placement matches).

 

The main problem is that both shouldn't be exclusive. You can have individual ratings and fast matches, 343 is just supeeeerrrrrrrr slow on addressing it.

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@@Moa how many emblems are unlockable via REQ packs, I thought I had finished the rare shit when I saw there are like 170 emblems ffs

A lot are tied to certain commendations. 

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@@Moa how many emblems are unlockable via REQ packs, I thought I had finished the rare shit when I saw there are like 170 emblems ffs

I think like 45% of them are related to commendations.

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I agree that shit posting when devs post isn't constructive at all, but lets be real when do they EVER quote the people with legitimate concerns and actually answer them? A few posters making smart ass comments is not an excuse to not communicate with your audience.

They don't have to communicate with us(they actually are, just not here). Yeah it sucks but let's be honest, they say "X is something we're looking into" or "Y is something we intend to expand" but people bitch and moan because they don't have something like an exact date or it ends up not being a reality. And if they don't say something then people bitch and moan they're not talking. It's a lose/lose situation with the latter being the better option for them at the moment. 

 

Somethings they just can't talk about. Somethings can never be guaranteed and stuck in concept but they're fun to think and talk about, they're cool to toss around with the community and see what they think. Somethings can't just happen with a snap of a finger.

 

Am I being a "343 shill who does nothing but defend them" right now? A bit. Does that mean I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt with some of the things they've done just in the past couple of months? Not at all. But I do realize that like all things, shit happens and never comes out the way people intend. I know the people over at 343 love this franchise and what they're doing like Tom French and the forge team prove that and I highly doubt that any of them want this franchise to fail. 

 

I'm not saying we should be bowing down to 343 with what they've done to us in terms of insight or communication but at least be a bit grateful and realize we might have pushed them away to the point where they don't want to talk to us(Beyond) anymore. I know Tom French is talking to people on Twitter and Forgehub all the time. Bravo is active on Twitter as well as r/Halo. I know @@Sal1ent still pokes his head here probably just to read and pass along to others where he sees fit. They're not ignoring us. You're ignorant if you think they are.

 

But hey they took our money so they no longer care about us and just want to shove REQs down our throats to the point where the end up in Arena, right? /tinfoil

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