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Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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The pistol definitely takes too long to kill people and thrusting takes absolutely no mechanical skill to perform. So what does this mean? It means that talented players are going to keep a certain distance to negate the effect of thrust and prevent it from putting their shot out of orientation. There becomes a sphere of influence into which the initially attacking player does not enter, because he knows that it is a 100% certainty that the opposing player will thrust - because it's easy and why wouldn't you? And this is where all the causative problems with the movement options arise, because now that escape window is HUGE. This doesn't expand the meta of the game, instead it creates more of the same offensive stagnation that Halo has suffered from since 2004. 

 

This is the problem with Halo 5's movement options as I initially expounded upon when the beta came out. Thrusting is not a creative venture, it's a habit. It's what you are expected to do, and it is something you can physically perform with no effort expended. Ergo, the difference in a close-range battle with thrust and a close-range battle without thrust collapses as far as the extent of its "meta", because the complexity of the situation is not increased, it's simply a lateral move as far as skill is concerned - it just has very negative consequences in other areas. Now if a player was encouraged to attack an opponent he's got the jump on as they are chasing because it's a legitimate risk for him to take because thrusting was actually a difficult maneuver to correctly pull off, THAT would be a boon to the meta, because it's not a one-sided thing. 

 

What's being discussed here are nerdy nick-knacks, regardless. 

I'm not sure this is consistent with pro gameplay / the current meta. 

 

And it's difficult to substantiate this argument without something to look at. If you're up to the challenge: find a pro gameplay (preferably something from the recent Online Qualifier / HCS), and make a video commentary of it. I'll watch it.

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I'd easily concede that this is the best halo game since CE if the kill times with the pistol were under a second. Which is what is so frustrating for some reason- reading this forum a while ago it seemed everyone agreed on this. Then the game releases and because 343 control the settings and because everyone seems to have been conditioned to 1 second+ kill times after several games, most aren't willing to push for what would be a far better more sensible game. The movement in this game is twice as quick (three/four? Times as quick with super slide) and yet has twice the kill time of ce. Right now the game is AR starts, halo 3. It's a little better than that cos you can Get kills reliably with the pistol but in the end it's the same thing.

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Right now the game is AR starts, halo 3. It's a little better than that cos you can Get kills reliably with the pistol but in the end it's the same thing.

This game is nothing close to the... thing that is AR Starts Halo 3.

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Not all arguing like fucking jackasses would be a great start.

Shit man, its almost like this is a forum; arguing is bound to happen.

 

There are limited options here. Halo is Microsofts baby and the company is run by someone who has massive amounts of control (Bonnie Ross). The developers inside said company have faulty logic, for example, Quinn saying cusfoms or FFA is suitable replacement for social playlists. Halo is run by people who do things THEIR way, not ours, and this is pretty apparent just by the lack of ingame content we received at launch (and that still exists right now).

 

Believe me, I'm all about being civil, but you can't expect people not to argue on a forum who's shared ideals are a dislike for Halo's direction and management.

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Shit man, its almost like this is a forum; arguing is bound to happen.

 

There are limited options here. Halo is Microsofts baby and the company is run by someone who has massive amounts of control (Bonnie Ross). The developers inside said company have faulty logic, for example, Quinn saying cusfoms or FFA is suitable replacement for social playlists. Halo is run by people who do things THEIR way, not ours, and this is pretty apparent just by the lack of ingame content we received at launch (and that still exists right now).

 

Believe me, I'm all about being civil, but you can't expect people not to argue on a forum who's shared ideals are a dislike for Halo's direction and management.

 

Exactly. All you are doing is wasting your time.

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Exactly. All you are doing is wasting your time.

As opposed to what? It seems like trying to change where Halo's been going HAS been a waste of time considering any of our efforts (videos, tweets, questions, concerns, feedback) is usually ignored when its not your usual fluff or asking basic questions that really are inconsequential to the base game.

 

A big issue I suppose is no one is really unified, as in you don't see all of us come together at once to give our suggestions and feedback to show solidarity, but even if everyone here did that, we are still tiny compared to the people that genuinely enjoy how H5 is. Unless that majority flips, lets not expect change. Our feedback WILL be ignored until a time where the general opinion is in our court rather than 343's.

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This game is nothing close to the... thing that is AR Starts Halo 3.

It is though, except you can get kills with the pistol but you'll still lose to every rifle but I said that in the quote.

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I'm not sure this is consistent with pro gameplay / the current meta. 

 

And it's difficult to substantiate this argument without something to look at. If you're up to the challenge: find a pro gameplay (preferably something from the recent Online Qualifier / HCS), and make a video commentary of it. I'll watch it.

 

Well this is the other aspect of this whole discussion, the fact that the situations in which these mechanics legitimately prove to be influential are so niche and so infrequent that to say they provide anything more than a trivial affect one way or the other is being disingenuous, even if that affect was positive. 

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Well this is the other aspect of this whole discussion, the fact that the situations in which these mechanics legitimately prove to be influential are so niche and so infrequent that to say they provide anything more than a trivial affect one way or the other is being disingenuous, even if that affect was positive.

 

To be fair isn't that part of what makes a good competitive game? The idea that options are situational and/or niche depending on what you're doing at a certain time?

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It is though, except you can get kills with the pistol but you'll still lose to every rifle but I said that in the quote.

Hm? I outpistol BRs and Carbines all the time. In fact, I rarely pick up rifles at all, and it isn't because of pride.

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To be fair isn't that part of what makes a good competitive game? The idea that options are situational and/or niche depending on what you're doing at a certain time?

 

Not if they are not prevalent enough to actually bolster the gameplay on the whole. And for however much people are talking up super slides and thrusting...H5 doesn't have anything else. 

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Hm? I outpistol BRs and Carbines all the time. In fact, I rarely pick up rifles at all, and it isn't because of pride.

I've out gunned players with a br/carbine in halo 3 with an AR in team slayer at least 50 times today.

 

This has been covered though. Fair enough you can do well with the pistol, doesn't mean the rifles aren't better and in a setting where someone is playing to win- you're going to be gunning for the rifles.

 

Would you be opposed to the pistol being better and like batchford and vetoed (that I've seen) suggested, give the rifles unique properties to make them also worth picking up while spawning with an actual utility weapon?.

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Not if they are not prevalent enough to actually bolster the gameplay on the whole. And for however much people are talking up super slides and thrusting...H5 doesn't have anything else.

I fail to see how a slide boost isn't bolstering gameplay. I mean, you could say "you can only perform it on ramp" but we could also say the double melee is trivial as its only useful close range. Both are offensive; you'll never realistically see a person try to escape with both abilities.

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I fail to see how a slide boost isn't bolstering gameplay. I mean, you could say "you can only perform it on ramp" but we could also say the double melee is trivial as its only useful close range. Both are offensive; you'll never realistically see a person try to escape with both abilities.

 

Taking BLB out of H1 has almost zero effect on the fact that H1 is by far the best competitive Halo game. That's what I'm talking about. 

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Taking BLB out of H1 has almost zero effect on the fact that H1 is by far the best competitive Halo game. That's what I'm talking about.

True.

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This has been covered though. Fair enough you can do well with the pistol, doesn't mean the rifles aren't better and in a setting where someone is playing to win- you're going to be gunning for the rifles.

Nah, the Magnum's actually pretty good in its own right since it's the fastest utility weapon (except firing rate). I only swap it out on larger maps like Truth and occasionally Fathom.

 

 

Would you be opposed to the pistol being better and like batchford and vetoed (that I've seen) suggested, give the rifles unique properties to make them also worth picking up while spawning with an actual utility weapon?.

I was a member of that party long before those two were.

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@@Moa Since you closed down the other thread you want me to edit my post with not confirmed or something?

Meh. 

 

Sundance's Twitter motto removed all the MLG stuff and his website is Geocities.com now, not MLG.

 

The site is sketchy as hell but it could be legit.

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If you take out thrust, the game's movement skill gap takes a hit and the individual is less empowered. That's how I see it.

 

Considering the number of times I've heard, "Button glitches shouldn't be the main source of skill in a SHOOTER game", I'm surprised how those people don't similarly see the H5 movement "skillgap" in the same light. 

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Did you forget that there are still Magnums and BRs in the game?

Increase movement speed to 115% and make strafe quicker and more responsive. There, now we don't need sprint or thruster.

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I'm used to playing shooting games like RTCW and Quake where I would finish 1v1 battles against lesser players with a lot of health. I can't do that as well in games like Halo 2 and Halo 3 because the movement in Halo has never been good. With thrust I'm able to have more shields left over after a 1v1 fight so I can get in the next battle faster, instead of having to run away and heal up because some thumbless player was able to scratch off most of my shields with basically zero effort.

 

But yes, continue being patronizing and dismissive.

 

 

xboxdvr.com/Batchford/c0ef4e08-2fbc-464d-aff5-509e271d93f1

 

If there was ever a game which one had a good chance of leaving a 1v1 battle with shields to spare, it was definitely not Halo 5. Even against scrandys. I can't even believe that this is part of why you think it's better than H2. It's borderline insanity. 

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