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Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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One of the biggest problems in FFA (aside from weapon balancing and placement, and player count) is simply the way these maps are designed. The reason camping is done so much in this game no matter the playlist is because the maps promote it. There are so many little nooks and crannies to hide in and just crouch that it's insane. Seriously, just bring a friend in a custom game and play hide and seek, you'll see how awful the maps are immediately. Halo isn't supposed to have cluttered intricate maps, that's for a game like CoD with low kill times. Think of past Halo map design and you'll see how plain the actual maps are. Even CE's room based maps were open and you couldn't really hide in a corner without people being able to spot you easily. The default maps in this game are just ass honestly. Probably every single one has way too many hiding spots. We need to go back to the basics and just have less cluttered maps. Also, clamber has to go, that's what causes half the problems in the first place.

 

Hell, make FFA pistols only and you have yourself a great playlist. Great for players that want to grind it and great for players to warm up.

 

To be fair this started in Halo 3. The Lockout remake was unplayable thanks to people just hiding directly above door ways. Couple that with an extremely limited FoV and it basically let you just assassinate your way to victory.

 

It's possible to make a map look beautiful and detailed yet strip away these sorts of hiding spots.

 

 

Look at this map for a great example. Map looks very detailed without putting in all sorts of areas for players to hide. There's a few large crates thrown around in certain areas to provide cover, yet they're too high to jump on (without rocket jumping) so you won't find players camping on them. The doors are nice and wide so you don't have players hiding behind doors with shotguns.

 

THIS is how you design an arena FPS map.

 

You don't need to add shelves and crap all over the place for players to camp on top of.

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To be fair this started in Halo 3. The Lockout remake was unplayable thanks to people just hiding directly above door ways. Couple that with an extremely limited FoV and it basically let you just assassinate your way to victory.

 

It's possible to make a map look beautiful and detailed yet strip away these sorts of hiding spots.

 

 

Look at this map for a great example. Map looks very detailed without putting in all sorts of areas for players to hide. There's a few large crates thrown around in certain areas to provide cover, yet they're too high to jump on (without rocket jumping) so you won't find players camping on them. The doors are nice and wide so you don't have players hiding behind doors with shotguns.

 

THIS is how you design an arena FPS map.

 

You don't need to add shelves and crap all over the place for players to camp on top of.

Oh God Blackout was soooo ass. Exactly, I don't get the need to have so many shelves and corners in this game. It obviously will promote camping everyone knows this. The point is to make camping as useless as possible, not promote it with bad map design. Looking at maps from classic games and the one you just linked makes me so sad that we are playing on maps like this in 2015. The formula for good maps has been established for well over a decade yet we are still breaking so many golden rules today. I hope this game gets the Reach treatment and we get some actual maps with forge. I wont play this game for more than 6 months if we are stuck with these maps.

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Don't forget South America! I'm pretty sure the match making situation for them is EVEN WORSE. Basically anywhere outside NA and EU match making is fucked.

 

https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/forums/e0d9938206f04a598ce84f2c8cadce02/topics/warzone-dont-work-south-ameria-africa-australia/06223e76-9c6e-45fe-af01-fb00160803b0/posts

 

This thread is 95 pages long now and issue still isn't fixed.

 

Feel free to RT these:

 

https://twitter.com/Pyroteq/status/677717171372298240

 

https://twitter.com/Pyroteq/status/677743967773986816

Yes, we cant play anything, only custom :( Since the update, I only played 1 match of FFA. No games after that in any playlist, no warzone, no social. And 343 doesnt care.

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Honestly the player count change made FFA worse. Typical for a 343 "fix" too, "fixing" a problem by changing something that is completely unrelated to the actual problem.

 

Empire Slayer (aka Storm Rifles,Shotty and SMGs) plays the way it plays in 1v1 4v4 or 8 or 6 man FFA.

 

Overgrowth is also the worst map of all time in Halo. Yes, worse than Snowbound and Epitaph. It plays as if its only purpose was to magnify everything bad about Halo 5. What could they have possibly been thinking?

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Played some warzone, it was fun but doesnt feel that much fun as compared to BTB in Halo 2-3 imo. I feel like 343 has put more effort in warzone than in arena looking at maps, reqs, bosses etc. But vehicle physics and chip dmg on vehicles is still bad, is it really needed coz you can use your power weapons to take vehicles instead of crossmap firing with weapons. But I'd hope that 343 would improve arena from classic Halos and make warzone their version of Halo.

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I just realised that the grenade jump is pathetically low in this game. It gives you a few extra CM's in height compared to the Halo 1 grenade jump that could get you to the top of BC from OS spawn...

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What's the opinion of overgrowth? Only played it a few times, seemed like a decent FFA map?

I think the consensus is that it's incredibly awful
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Please give us gunskill and real Halo maps back.

sadly it's not going to happen...too many people love they way it is "balanced" now..

"casuals"  like the idea of this class based weapon system where every gun has just one single area where it's usefull, they like that the AR carries them, and they like that Pistol/BR/DMR are not the weapon that they need to get good with to win...

 

I think with the honorable but desperate attempt to bring "us"closer to "them" by using the same settings for both casual and competitive, 343 actually drove both ideologies/mindsets even further apart...

it a pitty, if it would have been done right at launch, it might have helped both sides but if 343 fixes the sandbox the way we want it to be, they will have the whole casual community crying for taking away their new favorite toy..

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sadly it's not going to happen...too many people love they way it is "balanced" now..

"casuals" like the idea of this class based weapon system where every gun has just one single area where it's usefull, they like that the AR carries them, and they like that Pistol/BR/DMR are not the weapon that they need to get good with to win...

 

I think with the honorable but desperate attempt to bring "us"closer to "them" by using the same settings for both casual and competitive, 343 actually drove both ideologies/mindsets even further apart...

it a pitty, if it would have been done right at launch, it might have helped both sides but if 343 fixes the sandbox the way we want it to be, they will have the whole casual community crying for taking away their new favorite toy..

I don't know man I spend a bit of time on the Waypoint forums and the wider consensus over there is that 343 has fucked them because this game is focused more on eSports (their words not mine). They seem to have created even more of a void than before.

 

Then again I saw so many posts over there yesterday praising Overgrowths "flow" that it made me want to jump in to the screen and murder them all.

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I don't know man I spend a bit of time on the Waypoint forums and the wider consensus over there is that 343 has fucked them because this game is focused more on eSports (their words not mine). They seem to have created even more of a void than before.

 

Then again I saw so many posts over there yesterday praising Overgrowths "flow" that it made me want to jump in to the screen and murder them all.

yeah, I still go there when I have nothing to do (DARTH CEDIOUS)

They just hear stuff like "pro team was involved" and see ranks, no fun modes and are probably getting stumped by TO4's so they believe it's the competitive heaven.

And from their point of view the game is balanced it's just not the kind of balance that most competitive players want...

 

Too be fair, lots of them seem to be upset with the map as well..

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sadly it's not going to happen...too many people love they way it is "balanced" now..

"casuals"  like the idea of this class based weapon system where every gun has just one single area where it's usefull, they like that the AR carries them, and they like that Pistol/BR/DMR are not the weapon that they need to get good with to win...

 

I think with the honorable but desperate attempt to bring "us"closer to "them" by using the same settings for both casual and competitive, 343 actually drove both ideologies/mindsets even further apart...

it a pitty, if it would have been done right at launch, it might have helped both sides but if 343 fixes the sandbox the way we want it to be, they will have the whole casual community crying for taking away their new favorite toy..

 

Yup.

 

Go to /r/halo and say that Halo is unbalanced and in less than 5 minutes your post is sitting at -50 while a bunch of random nobodies that have never even attended a LAN tournament proceed to tell you how much you must suck at the game and the only reason you're complaining is because you don't understand how to use different weapons besides the BR, etc...

 

Of course they think the game is balanced, it's confirmation bias. They WANT to believe the game is balanced because for the first time in more than a decade running around spraying people to death with an AR is actually a valid tactic whereas before they would have gone -20 every game.

 

I love how none of them will ever mention skill or the lack of skill required in using these spray and pray weapons.

 

Yup, a weapon that requires skill to use constantly losing against a weapon that takes none. That's balance =)

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Honestly the player count change made FFA worse. Typical for a 343 "fix" too, "fixing" a problem by changing something that is completely unrelated to the actual problem.

 

Empire Slayer (aka Storm Rifles,Shotty and SMGs) plays the way it plays in 1v1 4v4 or 8 or 6 man FFA.

 

Overgrowth is also the worst map of all time in Halo. Yes, worse than Snowbound and Epitaph. It plays as if its only purpose was to magnify everything bad about Halo 5. What could they have possibly been thinking?

 

Just a reminder that even people here were saying that FFA needed to be changed to 6 players.

 

I used to blame a lot of stuff on 343, (and I still do), but not in this instance. Talk about a conflicting message.

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Yup.

 

Go to /r/halo and say that Halo is unbalanced and in less than 5 minutes your post is sitting at -50 while a bunch of random nobodies that have never even attended a LAN tournament proceed to tell you how much you must suck at the game and the only reason you're complaining is because you don't understand how to use different weapons besides the BR, etc...

 

Of course they think the game is balanced, it's confirmation bias. They WANT to believe the game is balanced because for the first time in more than a decade running around spraying people to death with an AR is actually a valid tactic whereas before they would have gone -20 every game.

 

I love how none of them will ever mention skill or the lack of skill required in using these spray and pray weapons.

 

Yup, a weapon that requires skill to use constantly losing against a weapon that takes none. That's balance =)

You seem to think that they not just understand Halos gameplay, but also want the same balance as we do, but I don't think this is the case.

They have a fundamentally different view on weapon balance.

They might not play CoD/BF but in the end, they want Halo to follow those games with automatics beeing the go-to weapon and single shot weapons beeing some niche weapon for long distance only.

 

When they think about skill, they don't think about "basic" skills like aming skill but about stuff like "you have to know which weapon is good for which situation"

So it's not like they want to believe certain things, they just want to play a totally different game

 

it's like saying "a football player should not be allowed to touch the ball with his hand", this is a true statement for european football (aka soccer) fans but it's not true for american football fans

 

At least this is the impression that I get on Waypoint

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To the guys in the Beyond Spartan Company who are getting Combat Evolved medals...

 

e6lMp8J.png

 

youtherealmvp-300x166.jpg

Is it full still or is it possible to join?

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Is it full still or is it possible to join?

I believe its full.

 

@@Moa..Is it possible you could look at some of the members to see how many are still actively playing? I would bet there are players in our company that dont even play anymore.

 

Some of these commendations are going to take a long time and we're going to need all the help we can get.

 

Just a thought....

 

EDIT: Just quickly looking through the list , I found somebody named : Bondservant 28. He has 0 multiplayer games played with a SR 1.

 

If you want me to go through the whole list and pick out situations like this , let me know.

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Just a reminder that even people here were saying that FFA needed to be changed to 6 players.

 

I used to blame a lot of stuff on 343, (and I still do), but not in this instance. Talk about a conflicting message.

 

Fair point. However, a competent developer should be able to distinguish legitimate concerns from concerns that aren't. Plenty of other game developers are able to do this, so why should 343 get a free pass? I would honestly not have any qualms with it if they didn't listen to community feedback whatsoever if the game was still made as competitive and fun as possible.

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You seem to think that they not just understand Halos gameplay, but also want the same balance as we do, but I don't think this is the case.

They have a fundamentally different view on weapon balance.

They might not play CoD/BF but in the end, they want Halo to follow those games with automatics beeing the go-to weapon and single shot weapons beeing some niche weapon for long distance only.

 

When they think about skill, they don't think about "basic" skills like aming skill but about stuff like "you have to know which weapon is good for which situation"

So it's not like they want to believe certain things, they just want to play a totally different game

 

it's like saying "a football player should not be allowed to touch the ball with his hand", this is a true statement for european football (aka soccer) fans but it's not true for american football fans

 

At least this is the impression that I get on Waypoint

I happened to get banned after posting a rather lengthy treatise on Auto balancing in CE. There was a single offending word in an 800 word post and the whole thing was shot to hell. I can't really say its the mod's fault, because in the end they've got to adhere the site's bizarrely rigid forum guidelines. And yet, chances are that someone reported me for that, considering the whole thing worth silencing because my tongue (fingers?) slipped in a way the censor's couldn't fix. :/

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