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Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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Let's compare it to utility weapon from other games - basically the same kill time but much harder to use and less range.

Garbage.

 

Let's compare it to other weapons in Halo 5 - is there any weapon less useful or lethal? Nope.

Garbage.

 

Being "skillful" doesn't make up for being useless or we would have been arguing for sentinel beam starts in Halo 3. Keeping that reticle on a moving target takes skill man.

Yeah but "garbage"?

 

That IS hyperbole. Period.

 

It's not the best, hence my various posts to say it needs to be 4sk, but garbage?

 

Nah, that's just not true.

 

I can still win battles against most weapons with the pistol, albeit maybe a bit too difficult, but A garbage utility weapon is an rng weapon in an arena shooter. Garbage is a br that shoots like a god damn water gun dissipating into vapor at anything more than 10 feet.

 

THATS garbage.

 

The pistol needs to be fixed, but it's not trash. It's "average", IMO. That's my point.

 

Then again, on any of the halos where we had an esports scene, none of the default starting weapons were viable (besides CE).

 

The good news is that all this bitching will lead to changes (hopefully) sooner rather than later. So, keep it up?

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None of the games you listed are AAA console games.

What are you talking about? Unreal Tournament 3 was on PS3.

 

Quake 4 was on 360.

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Weapon balancing in Reach was great. Of course you don't want autos to be overpowered cause it'll make the game not fun, like Halo 5.

Autos weren't even worth selecting as a starting weapon. DMR/Magnum was a better setting. They, literally, had no place in the game because everything was better than they were. At best, you could Plasma Rifle/Spiker beatdown people, and the AR couldn't even do that.

 

I'm not defending the overviability of autos in Halo 5, but Reach did them very wrong. 

 

Also, the notion that Halo 5 isn't fun because automatics are so great now is absurd. There are plenty of other factors that contribute to that, and, the fact is, the utility weapons are still ultimately the better weapons when it comes to whether or not you should drop one or the other for a power weapon. A 4sk Magnum really would probably do the trick, though, as crazy as that sounds.

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How about you take your own advice and stop being a hypocrite? You're wasting your energy by complaining about other people complaining because you know damn well that they aren't going to stop complaining. If you want people to be more productive with their time then how about you set a example. Maybe the real reason why you're saying this is because your subconscious is telling you to be more productive with your life. Just some food for thought.

 

 

lol ... I'm pretty sure that one meta post about complaining is not exactly equivalent to literally 1000+ posts of H5 complaining, but whatever works for you

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There is really no solid basis for saying a game with gameplay akin to Halo 1 would fail on today's market since there are no other games like it.

 

Of course there is. Sure, I can't say with 100% certainty, but I'd still bank my house on it.

 

You only need to look at the state of arena FPS on both PC AND console.

 

Gamers these days want progression and constant reward reinforcement.

 

You can argue that Halo isn't really an "arena" game if you want - despite 343 even calling the competitive multiplayer "Arena", but it's still unpopular in today's gaming state for the same reason arena FPS are unpopular.

 

In an arena FPS you can't allow someone to start off with a sniper load out they spent 80 hours unlocking.

 

They can't call in an airstrike after getting a killing spree.

 

Sure, you can give them some cosmetic skins and stuff, but that's only going to entice a tiny percentage of people to grind for hours as opposed to getting that sweet new M4 and Desert Eagle for your load outs.

 

Hell, even single player games do this.

 

Have you played an Ubisoft game recently?

 

Instead of finding guns hidden away in secret locations like you would have done back in the 90's, you now run around doing a bunch of side quests and skinning 10 crocodiles so you can then unlock the gun from a vendor.

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The gaming culture has changed so drastically since 2001 it's not even funny. Once gaming really hit the mainstream during the mid 2000's with the PS2 the entire culture shifted.

 

There's a reason Unreal Tournament 3 never had huge success.

 

There's a reason Quake 4 never had huge success.

 

There's a reason Painkiller never had huge success.

 

There's a reason no players are currently playing Toxikk right now.

 

You're kidding yourself if you seriously think arena FPS are still popular.

 

These types of games don't reward you constantly. They don't feature progression systems designed by top psychologists that are designed to make you addicted to the act of unlocking new guns and armour. They're games that reward player skill. You don't play the game to unlock new armour, you play the game to get better.

But THATS THE THING. Thats the thing halo 3 did soooo well, and why so many fans consider it their personal favourite.

 

The core gameplay, maps, etc were flawed but that didn't end up meaning much because the game was soooooo rewarding. You got addicted to the ranks, the achievements, the armour. Your spartan record and name plate was a testament to everything you achieved. That's something very few games do right, let alone 'arena shooters'.

 

And so the addictiveness of the progression system hooks you in. You have your ranks and flair. What makes you keep playing for years on end?

 

The features. The variety. Customs, social, ranked. Forge, file share, theatre. The things that not only keep players playing but also communities forming and STAYING alive.

 

All these things made Halo 3 just about the most successful title, and that was with some of the worst maps, balancing, gameplay, and aiming of the entire series. Reach is very similar in it's own way too.

 

So just imagine a Halo getting all these right?

 

...And what do we have now? almost none of that. Almost none of the stuff that made halo successful or lasting. You know exactly which things Halo 5 doesn't have that the successful ones did, no need for me to list them like anyone else. Halo 5 and 343 are going nowhere, whether you (anybody) likes the game or not.

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How am I supposed to defend my rank when I cant get games anymore? I want to play some BTB but I am simply not able to. Even got a message after a while that I should search in another playlist.

 

Yay :)

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The halo franchise reminds me so much of the resident evil franchise.

 

Resident evil was very popular and critically acclaimed. Then gears came out and RE changed itself to try and be more actiony and less of a survival horror game. RE5 came out and it was hated by the hardcore fanbase but it sold well so capcom pinned the feedback on a "vocal minority". RE6 came out and sold like shit because so many people had hated RE5. The so called "vocal minority" was in fact correct but they had been ignored.

 

I think a lot of the issues h5 is facing are due to the hordes of people who were massively disappointed with h4. H5 is another CODified, generic looking halo much like h4 was. So why would those people play h5?

Actually RE 6 didn't sell like shit, it's their 2nd most sold game after RE 5.

 

http://www.capcom.co.jp/ir/english/business/million.html

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This can be a pretty good competitive game if they made the Pistol a 4sk and had better maps but man.. this game just isn't fun for me. I really wanted to like this game too. I am a level 46 and it just feels like i'm grinding instead of enjoying the game. I have no motivation to even turn on my Xbox One anymore. This game is just missing what made Halo CE - 3 so great. It also feels like the community is gone. I remember going to Halo 3 LANs back in the day and we would get both competitive players and casual players who would just have fun doing the thing we all had in common, playing Halo. Nobody (at least where I live) even talks about Halo anymore. Meanwhile, two of my local LAN centers holds Smash Bros tournaments every Thursday and Saturday night and on average 50+ people show up. That is what I want Halo to have again. 

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You can argue that Halo isn't really an "arena" game if you want - despite 343 even calling the competitive multiplayer "Arena", 

So does COD.

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One thing about 343 is that they love to have lots of things going on at once i.e overcomplicating things.

 

From Bungie's simple Visuals to 343's overtextured mess, even to the soundtrack now sounding like something from Transformers with like 20000 different instruments going ham at once.

 

The one thing they never overdo though is the gameplay. Gameplay is the one thing that could benefit from having more layers, yet you decide to make my eyes bleed when I look at Master Chief. Thanks, 343.

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So, lets go a different route with this thread for a little bit here:

 

If you absolutely HAD to pick JUST 3 things to fix in Halo 5 ASAP, what would it be?

 

Mine would be:

 

1) Remove radar

2) Nerf Automatic weapons

3) Fix pistol to 4sk, or lower TTK in other ways

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Of course there is. Sure, I can't say with 100% certainty, but I'd still bank my house on it.

 

You only need to look at the state of arena FPS on both PC AND console.

 

Read the first post on this page to understand why your assumptions are taking too big of a leap IMO. (Generic mechanisms added to Halo's gameplay have actually turned off casual gamers and gives them less incentive to stick around or return and dabble.)

 

By the way, Quake 4 was released in 2005 on PC. Unreal Tournament 3 was released in 2007. Neither of those arena shooters have gameplay designed around console specifically. They are ports on console. Halo was designed around the console and the gunplay shows this. Slower tactically and gunplay emphasizes steady shot-making consistency. Counter-Strike is on console too, but its very poor. That doesn't mean CS is junk or not popular in general.

 

While original Halo was built on arena principles, its not in the same style of arena shooter.

 

On a side note, many in the Unreal Tournament community are concerned that UT4 won't release on Steam and that this is going to be a major hinderance to casual gamers trying it. Ironically, UT4 is being built in attempt to go back to its roots, while providing something more unique than a pure clone of one of the predecessors. Interesting plan.

 

The fact that there is no dominating modern arena game on PC could have opened the opportunity for Halo to be a true console seller to non-attached gamers who don't own an XBO and who are not Halo fans already. But 343 wanted to take a different direction.

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What are you talking about? Unreal Tournament 3 was on PS3.

 

Quake 4 was on 360.

Lol. Both of those games were far from AAA experiences. Quake 4 on 360 looked like a nintendo 64 game.

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So, lets go a different route with this thread for a little bit here:

 

If you absolutely HAD to pick JUST 3 things to fix in Halo 5 ASAP, what would it be?

 

Mine would be:

 

1) Remove radar

2) Nerf Automatic weapons

3) Fix pistol to 4sk, or lower TTK in other ways

1) Party restrictions

2) Social playlists

3) Team Doubles

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Of course there is. Sure, I can't say with 100% certainty, but I'd still bank my house on it.

 

You only need to look at the state of arena FPS on both PC AND console.

 

Gamers these days want progression and constant reward reinforcement.

 

You can argue that Halo isn't really an "arena" game if you want - despite 343 even calling the competitive multiplayer "Arena", but it's still unpopular in today's gaming state for the same reason arena FPS are unpopular.

 

In an arena FPS you can't allow someone to start off with a sniper load out they spent 80 hours unlocking.

 

They can't call in an airstrike after getting a killing spree.

 

Sure, you can give them some cosmetic skins and stuff, but that's only going to entice a tiny percentage of people to grind for hours as opposed to getting that sweet new M4 and Desert Eagle for your load outs.

 

Hell, even single player games do this.

 

Have you played an Ubisoft game recently?

 

Instead of finding guns hidden away in secret locations like you would have done back in the 90's, you now run around doing a bunch of side quests and skinning 10 crocodiles so you can then unlock the gun from a vendor.

You love making assumptions dont you. If I were to describe minecraft to you 5 years ago it would sound like an irrelevant indie game. You don't know how a game is going to fare until it is out there. We dont know how a AAA console fps that plays like classic halo would do in todays marketplace. All we do know is how hybrid "modern" halo does. And its not well.

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You love making assumptions dont you. If I were to describe minecraft to you 5 years ago it would sound like an irrelevant indie game. You don't know how a game is going to fare until it is out there. We dont know how a AAA console fps that plays like classic halo would do in todays marketplace. All we do know is how hybrid "modern" halo does. And its not well.

Exactly, 343 has never attempted it, so to say it will fail is purely assumption. What there is evidence of is that 343's approach isn't working.

 

@@Pyroteq

As for Quake 4, that game failed because it was catered to a controller. Quake and UT gameplay will. never. work. on. consoles. It's too fast and if it's changed to work with a controller, then it's no longer Quake/UT. Epic and id learned their lesson quickly since UT4 and Quake Live are only on PC, but id is a shell of what it once was so we'll probably never get a proper Quake game again.

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So, lets go a different route with this thread for a little bit here:

 

If you absolutely HAD to pick JUST 3 things to fix in Halo 5 ASAP, what would it be?

 

Mine would be:

 

1) Remove radar

2) Nerf Automatic weapons

3) Fix pistol to 4sk, or lower TTK in other ways

1. Social playlists

2. More modes/maps

3. Nerf autos slightly

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We dont know how a AAA console fps that plays like classic halo would do in todays marketplace. All we do know is how hybrid "modern" halo does. And its not well.

 

To your point, the simplicity of gameplay in classic Halo actually benefits casual gamers who are dabbling. They are not overwhelmed with sensory-perception overload saying "what just happened?"

 

Another point is that while traditional Halo gameplay is based on arena principles, its not as twitchy as the PC genre. The gunplay is much different. Traditional Halo gameplay would not intimidate casual gamers so I don't agree with the correlation to arena games on PC not being as popular. There is also enough variety in traditional Halo playlists where casuals can play and still have fun outside the traditional arena gameplay. Big Team Battle, now Warzone, and other game modes and gametypes going back to Halo CE on PC to Halo 2, Halo 3 have all thrived in casual circumstances. Halo's arena foundation allows for tons of variety and plenty of silly fun game modes, unlike the traditional military shooter. Its unfortunate we haven't seen enough of that potential in H5.

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It is far too difficult to defend than it is to attack in Warzone.

 

To me it's like a slot machine, except it comes off as a bit rigged. I lose either three to five matches, or win around the same ratio.

 

Still, Warzone is the only real (doable) escape from the ranks in this game. Sad. Warzone and Red Pill...

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One thing about 343 is that they love to have lots of things going on at once i.e overcomplicating things.

 

From Bungie's simple Visuals to 343's overtextured mess, even to the soundtrack now sounding like something from Transformers with like 20000 different instruments going ham at once.

 

The one thing they never overdo though is the gameplay. Gameplay is the one thing that could benefit from having more layers, yet you decide to make my eyes bleed when I look at Master Chief. Thanks, 343.

I would the say the gameplay looks like an overcomplicate mess when players have so many tools to use/routes to traverse on the map. Movement prediction (one of the things that sprint ruins) really helped the gameplay in earlier Halo's, which got removed with the additions of sprint/evade/jet packs/thrust/clamber etc.

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To me it's like a slot machine, except it comes off as a bit rigged. I lose either three to five matches, or win around the same ratio.

 

Still, Warzone is the only real (doable) escape from the ranks in this game. Sad. Warzone and Red Pill...

Yeah, I'm kind of in the same boat.

 

I'll either win a lot, or just lose a lot. I don't like how when you defend, that you'll get spawned far away from the base, it doesn't make any sense to me.

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