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Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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sounds like that means nothing, I mean how much better is the dmr post Tu?

So much better. Crouching actually ensured the reticle would never fully bloom and you could easily 5 shot someone.

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 In terms of a making a good game, I'd say 343 have succeeded.

 

Except players are leaving the game so fast we'll be lucky if it maintains a large enough player base for a year.

 

I STILL can't finish my FFA placement matches.

 

I tried earlier at 5:37pm Sunday, Sydney time. You'd think this would be a good time to find a Halo game in my region, but apparently it's not.

 

Pretty much every time I jump on Halo I attempt to find an FFA game and I can never find one. I tried to play the new Rockets playlist the other night as well and failed to find a game. I believe it was around 11pm Sydney time on Saturday night. I eventually found a game in the middle of the day today (Sunday).

 

I can jump on a game like Dirty Bomb which most people here have probably never even heard of and find a game in my region in just seconds. The fact I can't do the same in a AAA title with Microsoft funding is ridiculous.

 

Yes, I'm sure changes will be made.

 

Yes, I'm sure we'll eventually get new maps and modes.

 

But guess what?

 

By then it's too late.

 

Do you think casual players are going to stick around waiting for Zombies or Team Action Sack?

 

Fuck no. They probably already traded in the game when it didn't come with Big Team Battle. The ones that didn't trade it in then probably traded it in after 343's pathetic attempt to include BTB with ONLY Forged maps.

 

The most competitive players in Australia don't even bother to look for games in match making because they can't find games thanks to 343's match making system which is FAR too restrictive.

 

The game is well polished, it looks nice and most of the guns feel satisfying to use but there are some EXTREME flaws.

 

Having weapon balance issues is one thing.

 

Having players unable to find games in certain playlists FOR WEEKS is a catastrophic disaster which is causing people to stay the hell away.

 

Having players lag and suffer connection issues FOR WEEKS is also causing players to lose interest in the game.

 

It's been a month now and I'm still getting frequent lag spikes.

 

So for me I'm limited to playing Warzone, Team Slayer or Team Arena since most other game types I'm lucky to find a game and then when I do find a game I'm often lagging to the point where I don't even want to play the game any more.

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Thats such a cop out for a developer who has damaged a brand repeatedly for multiple years to the point that it is clearly visible in the Halo 5 launch sales.

 

Nope, that's part of the problem but it isn't all of it.

 

I mean, of course gamers do not trust 343 after The 4 and the horrible release of MCC.

 

But the gaming landscape has also shifted radically in the past 10 years.

 

CoD happened. LoL happened. Twitch happened. Free to play happened. Micro-transactions happened.

 

PC gaming is on the rise again. Arena FPS are no longer popular.

 

Blaming the declining population of Halo PURELY on 343 shows a complete lack of understanding the game industry itself.

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Weapons are supposed to be effective within their niche. Storm Rifle just needs better map placement. The AR performs too well outside of its niche but a buffed pistol will put it in its place again. The caster needs a buff too.

Supposed to be effective. Not instant death ray machines.

 

The storm rifle is OP.

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Nope, that's part of the problem but it isn't all of it.

 

I mean, of course gamers do not trust 343 after The 4 and the horrible release of MCC.

 

But the gaming landscape has also shifted radically in the past 10 years.

 

CoD happened. LoL happened. Twitch happened. Free to play happened. Micro-transactions happened.

 

PC gaming is on the rise again. Arena FPS are no longer popular.

 

Blaming the declining population of Halo PURELY on 343 shows a complete lack of understanding the game industry itself.

A streaming website (that surely helps Halo), an FPS series that first came out in 2003, Free to play games and a PC Moba is why Halo isint popular.

 

Its just cop out excuses for a poor game. Why does the above not apply to Destiny who have successfully managed to retain their population. Why is Call of Duty itself not struggling with Twitch and Moba. Oh, and Halo has microtransactions, shockingly 343 have implemented it in a poor way.

 

Good games have always existed. Good games retain their audience by satisfying their audience. Halo 5 dropping to outside of the top 10 on XBL after a month is laughable, and blaming League of Legends/Twitch/Minecraft/farmville/angry birds or any other free to play stuff is a cop out.

 

Blaming the competition getting better for why your product sucks is probably a solid reason why your product is down the drain.

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Nope, that's part of the problem but it isn't all of it.

 

I mean, of course gamers do not trust 343 after The 4 and the horrible release of MCC.

 

But the gaming landscape has also shifted radically in the past 10 years.

 

CoD happened. LoL happened. Twitch happened. Free to play happened. Micro-transactions happened.

 

PC gaming is on the rise again. Arena FPS are no longer popular.

 

Blaming the declining population of Halo PURELY on 343 shows a complete lack of understanding the game industry itself.

Its not 100% thier fault but most of it is thier fault.

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Nope, that's part of the problem but it isn't all of it.

 

I mean, of course gamers do not trust 343 after The 4 and the horrible release of MCC.

 

But the gaming landscape has also shifted radically in the past 10 years.

 

CoD happened. LoL happened. Twitch happened. Free to play happened. Micro-transactions happened.

 

PC gaming is on the rise again. Arena FPS are no longer popular.

 

Blaming the declining population of Halo PURELY on 343 shows a complete lack of understanding the game industry itself.

 

While true let's consider the things that Halo 5 does not have at the moment that Halo 3 and Halo: Reach had.

 

- Fileshare

- Forge

- Social vanilla playlists/good selection

- Game chat in lobbies (for me)

- Split screen

- LAN (and for people who don't have internet)

- Party restrictions (from what I know)

 

For a casual audience that's pretty huge, not every casual can keep playing Warzone till they unlock every piece of armour and achieving platinum 6 in Arena and then giving up. Besides campaign and standard custom games what can they do? Given that Warzone/Warzone assault is the only relatively new experience that Halo 5 is offering to the consumer I don't believe that this is going to sustain population. The Arena gameplay is great mind you, I really enjoy it but I don't feel like this experience thus far is social enough for me. Not everyone wants to just grind the whole time, people want to relax and enjoy the moment. With the lack of social features it makes the game pretty much built for REQ grinders and hardcore competitive players. 

 

What I started doing recently was creating new accounts and I found arena much more enjoyable given the fact that I was finding lower ranked matches and not hardcore sweaty cock fights the whole time and I didn't have as much risk. I just enjoyed playing Halo because it was Halo. Besides that it doesn't really offer the same classic experience to me. I believe I'm going to enjoy this game a hell of a lot more when forge comes out though because of forging fun custom maps.

 

 

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The halo franchise reminds me so much of the resident evil franchise.

 

Resident evil was very popular and critically acclaimed. Then gears came out and RE changed itself to try and be more actiony and less of a survival horror game. RE5 came out and it was hated by the hardcore fanbase but it sold well so capcom pinned the feedback on a "vocal minority". RE6 came out and sold like shit because so many people had hated RE5. The so called "vocal minority" was in fact correct but they had been ignored.

 

I think a lot of the issues h5 is facing are due to the hordes of people who were massively disappointed with h4. H5 is another CODified, generic looking halo much like h4 was. So why would those people play h5?

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Nope, that's part of the problem but it isn't all of it.

 

I mean, of course gamers do not trust 343 after The 4 and the horrible release of MCC.

 

But the gaming landscape has also shifted radically in the past 10 years.

 

CoD happened. LoL happened. Twitch happened. Free to play happened. Micro-transactions happened.

 

PC gaming is on the rise again. Arena FPS are no longer popular.

 

Blaming the declining population of Halo PURELY on 343 shows a complete lack of understanding the game industry itself.

 

Except that Halo has never been an Arena shooter, especially since 2004. The main problem is that 343s Halos are just not fun and they aren't more than mediocre games overall. Even Reach, with all of its shitty gameplay, was objectively pretty good. I'm sick of hearing this "The industry has changed" nonsense. People will buy an excellent game with the name "Halo" on it. They are just not interested in this weird hybrid abomination that doesn't even know what it wants to be.

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Nope, that's part of the problem but it isn't all of it.

 

I mean, of course gamers do not trust 343 after The 4 and the horrible release of MCC.

 

But the gaming landscape has also shifted radically in the past 10 years.

 

CoD happened. LoL happened. Twitch happened. Free to play happened. Micro-transactions happened.

 

PC gaming is on the rise again. Arena FPS are no longer popular.

 

Blaming the declining population of Halo PURELY on 343 shows a complete lack of understanding the game industry itself.

 

I don't get why its so hard for people to admit and see that the console market has significantly changed. Top 10 most played with the exception of the R6 beta which will be out of the top 10 soon along with the full game two weeks after it releases, are all casually orientated games with little to no skillgap that offer instant gratification.

 

Casual gamers just aren't willing to go through that learning curve in a competitive game anymore. The days of 2007 are gone and Halo, Gears of war and R6 will probably never get back to the top of the most played list because they aren't pick up and play games like the majority of games in the top 10 and they don't offer that mindless fun that casuals want which is why I find it so baffling that GOW: Ultimate edition and H5 offer no fun casual experience or its extremely limited (warzone).

 

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The halo franchise reminds me so much of the resident evil franchise.

 

Resident evil was very popular and critically acclaimed. Then gears came out and RE changed itself to try and be more actiony and less of a survival horror game. RE5 came out and it was hated by the hardcore fanbase but it sold well so capcom pinned the feedback on a "vocal minority". RE6 came out and sold like shit because so many people had hated RE5. The so called "vocal minority" was in fact correct but they had been ignored.

 

I think a lot of the issues h5 is facing are due to the hordes of people who were massively disappointed with h4. H5 is another CODified, generic looking halo much like h4 was. So why would those people play h5?

 

Except that RE4 which is arguably the best game in the series is a lot more actiony than any of the games before it and sold amazingly well. I'd argue that had more of an effect on where they wanted to go with RE5 than what gears of war did. RE6 sold like shit because it was a terrible game plain and simple.

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At least some good came with Halo 5 being a mess. This studio is now fully living up to their name. They are 3-for-3 on fucked up Halo games. HOORAH

 

Man, what I would do to be in the meeting with Phil Spencer and the 343 guys about the sales and dwindling population.

Phil Spencer: Hey 343, what are we going to do about this situation?

343: LIE TO THEM! Say Halo 5 is the fastest selling game in the franchise!

Phil Spencer: Didn't we already do that for Halo 4?

343: Did I stutter?

 

Wonder if Reach will have higher concurrent pop than H5...Is the counter broken? Someone said it was. If it isn't its getting 15k concurrent.

Counter's fine. If it isn't I wouldn't be surprised if more people were playing.

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I don't get why its so hard for people to admit and see that the console market has significantly changed. Top 10 most played with the exception of the R6 beta which will be out of the top 10 soon along with the full game two weeks after it releases, are all casually orientated games with little to no skillgap that offer instant gratification.

 

Casual gamers just aren't willing to go through that learning curve in a competitive game anymore. The days of 2007 are gone and Halo, Gears of war and R6 will probably never get back to the top of the most played list because they aren't pick up and play games like the majority of games in the top 10 and they don't offer that mindless fun that casuals want.

 

Yeah, Halo 5 failed because it's too hard. Right.

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Going for my Champion game and I get a guy in my team who goes 2-13 and another who goes 4-14. Never running solo again

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A streaming website (that surely helps Halo), an FPS series that first came out in 2003, Free to play games and a PC Moba is why Halo isint popular.

 

Its just cop out excuses for a poor game. Why does the above not apply to Destiny who have successfully managed to retain their population. Why is Call of Duty itself not struggling with Twitch and Moba. Oh, and Halo has microtransactions, shockingly 343 have implemented it in a poor way.

 

Good games have always existed. Good games retain their audience by satisfying their audience. Halo 5 dropping to outside of the top 10 on XBL after a month is laughable, and blaming League of Legends/Twitch/Minecraft/farmville/angry birds or any other free to play stuff is a cop out.

 

Blaming the competition getting better for why your product sucks is probably a solid reason why your product is down the drain.

 

The gaming culture has changed so drastically since 2001 it's not even funny. Once gaming really hit the mainstream during the mid 2000's with the PS2 the entire culture shifted.

 

There's a reason Unreal Tournament 3 never had huge success.

 

There's a reason Quake 4 never had huge success.

 

There's a reason Painkiller never had huge success.

 

There's a reason no players are currently playing Toxikk right now.

 

You're kidding yourself if you seriously think arena FPS are still popular.

 

These types of games don't reward you constantly. They don't feature progression systems designed by top psychologists that are designed to make you addicted to the act of unlocking new guns and armour. They're games that reward player skill. You don't play the game to unlock new armour, you play the game to get better.

 

BTW, Halo 5 may not be a good Halo game, but it's still better than most the other games in the top 10.

 

Being a "good" game has nothing to do with how well the game sells or how many people are playing it. If we were going to judge a game by how many active players it had then Minecraft would be the best game ever made.

 

Guess what? No matter how good the next Unreal Tournament is it's STILL not going to reach mass appeal. It could be objectively the greatest game ever created and it STILL would not reach the mass appeal that CoD has.

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Except that Halo has never been an Arena shooter, especially since 2004. The main problem is that 343s Halos are just not fun and they aren't more than mediocre games overall. Even Reach, with all of its shitty gameplay, was objectively pretty good. I'm sick of hearing this "The industry has changed" nonsense. People will buy an excellent game with the name "Halo" on it. They are just not interested in this weird hybrid abomination that doesn't even know what it wants to be.

 

Yeah, it's never been an arena shooter...

 

Except for the weapon and power ups placed on the map on static/dynamic timers.

Rocket jumping and grenade jumping.

Double kills, Triple kills, killing sprees, etc.

An overshield that slowly trickles down until you reach 100% shields... *cough*Mega Health*cough*

 

 

Hmmmmmm... Some of these sound familiar...

 

I'm sick of hearing this "The industry has changed" nonsense.

 

Ok, so then please explain to me why the hell more people aren't playing Tribes, Quake, Unreal, Toxikk and other arena FPS.

 

If you don't think the industry has changed than I can only guess that you haven't been gaming long enough to actually witness the industry change, because as someone that has been playing first person shooters since Wolfenstein 3D I can safely say with 100% accuracy that the industry has gone through MASSIVE changes, especially within the last 5 years.

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This is just straight up wrong.

How so

 

Sprint, thruster, ADS

 

We even have destiny's shoulder charge and ground smash for good measure.

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The gaming culture has changed so drastically since 2001 it's not even funny. Once gaming really hit the mainstream during the mid 2000's with the PS2 the entire culture shifted.

 

There's a reason Unreal Tournament 3 never had huge success.

 

There's a reason Quake 4 never had huge success.

 

There's a reason Painkiller never had huge success.

 

There's a reason no players are currently playing Toxikk right now.

 

You're kidding yourself if you seriously think arena FPS are still popular.

 

These types of games don't reward you constantly. They don't feature progression systems designed by top psychologists that are designed to make you addicted to the act of unlocking new guns and armour. They're games that reward player skill. You don't play the game to unlock new armour, you play the game to get better.

 

BTW, Halo 5 may not be a good Halo game, but it's still better than most the other games in the top 10.

 

Being a "good" game has nothing to do with how well the game sells or how many people are playing it. If we were going to judge a game by how many active players it had then Minecraft would be the best game ever made.

 

Guess what? No matter how good the next Unreal Tournament is it's STILL not going to reach mass appeal. It could be objectively the greatest game ever created and it STILL would not reach the mass appeal that CoD has.

And Minecraft knows its audience and caters to them. All of those games failed for various reasons. If any of those developers say "well, time's changed, the game is great", then they just prove why it failed. Dont blame your customer base for wanting different things.

 

Lets look at shadowrun as an example. Its not as simple as "too competitive, too hard". It released a 60 dollar multiplayer game in a time where you couldn't get away with that shit, as well as a general lack of marketing or compelling features out of the game to keep players away from Halo 2/3 for long periods of time. Shadowrun is probably a game that would do better today actually, fits into a competitive niche, can be supported by competitive communities more, and could probably be released for cheaper via the digital marketplace.

 

343 can not cater to their audience. You are making it out that Halo is some uber nice hyper competitive quake style shooter from 2000. Its a generic console shooter that is relatively low in the spectrum of competitive gaming.

 

Yes, times change and its up to game developers to either adapt to the modern market or continue pursuing its original vision, and in itself create a niche when other games branch from their roots. Halo chose to ditch its roots and is now a game that has copied elements from COD/mobas/CS to apparently appeal to the modern market, and shit the bed completely. Its failed to retain its audience (notice I keep saying that, not quality). So to say Halo has failed because its a quake style shooter is nonsense.

 

Lets stop pretending Halo is some niche title. Its still a juggernaut AAA title that Microsoft invests an awful lot of money into. They did again for Halo 5, and its the first clear tangible sign that its brand is damaged.

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Yeah, it's never been an arena shooter...

 

Except for the weapon and power ups placed on the map on static/dynamic timers.

Rocket jumping and grenade jumping.

Double kills, Triple kills, killing sprees, etc.

An overshield that slowly trickles down until you reach 100% shields... *cough*Mega Health*cough*

 

 

Hmmmmmm... Some of these sound familiar...

 

 

Ok, so then please explain to me why the hell more people aren't playing Tribes, Quake, Unreal, Toxikk and other arena FPS.

 

 

They either no longer exist or are not AAA releases.

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Except that RE4 which is arguably the best game in the series is a lot more actiony than any of the games before it and sold amazingly well. I'd argue that had more of an effect on where they wanted to go with RE5 than what gears of war did. RE6 sold like shit because it was a terrible game plain and simple.

RE4 scared the fuck out of me.

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They either no longer exist or are not AAA releases.

 

Are you serious?

 

Since when is iD software not a AAA developer? They invented the first person shooter. iD is now owned by ZeniMax Media - the same company that owns Bethesda studios who just released Fallout 4.

 

And Epic isn't a AAA developer? Besides the fact that half of the AAA games you're playing run on the Unreal engine they also released the hugely successful Gears of War.

 

Are you really going to tell me Unreal and Quake don't do well because they're not made by AAA game developers?

 

Why are people so afraid to admit that maybe Halo isn't popular any more because casual gamers prefer other games? I'm not saying Halo doesn't have any casual appeal AT ALL, what I'm saying is that Halo has LESS casual appeal than games like CoD with instant kill times and other free to play games that have absolutely zero barrier to entry.

 

If I want to play Halo I have to buy an Xbox One and Halo 5. If I want to play LoL I can jump on my toaster and download the game for free.

 

Which game do you think is going to appeal to more casual gamers?

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Are you serious?

 

Since when is iD software not a AAA developer? They invented the first person shooter. iD is now owned by ZeniMax Media - the same company that owns Bethesda studios who just released Fallout 4.

 

And Epic isn't a AAA developer? Besides the fact that half of the AAA games you're playing run on the Unreal engine they also released the hugely successful Gears of War.

 

Are you really going to tell me Unreal and Quake don't do well because they're not made by AAA game developers?

None of the games you listed are AAA console games.

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Yeah, it's never been an arena shooter...

 

Except for the weapon and power ups placed on the map on static/dynamic timers.

Rocket jumping and grenade jumping.

Double kills, Triple kills, killing sprees, etc.

An overshield that slowly trickles down until you reach 100% shields... *cough*Mega Health*cough*

 

 

Hmmmmmm... Some of these sound familiar...

 

 

 

Of course it has arena elements in it, but also contains many mechanics that are typically found in squad shooters.

Halo 1 was also a weird hybrid, but unlike modern halos in a very good way.

 

 

Ok, so then please explain to me why the hell more people aren't playing Tribes, Quake, Unreal, Toxikk and other arena FPS.

 

I don't know, but none of these games is like Halo and/or a massive AAA game on the console.

 

 

 

If you don't think the industry has changed than I can only guess that you haven't been gaming long enough to actually witness the industry change, because as someone that has been playing first person shooters since Wolfenstein 3D I can safely say with 100% accuracy that the industry has gone through MASSIVE changes, especially within the last 5 years.

I'm not saying the Industry hasn't changed, just that it's not the primary reason for Halo's decline (except you want to argue that Halo has become bad in the first place because the Devs wanted to make Halo more like other games which I agree with, but that's not the point). The film industry has also changed, yet sequels of popular, older movies can still be extremely successful if they stick to their franchise's roots with some modernizations. That is something that has NEVER been done in Halo's history. There is really no solid basis for saying a game with gameplay akin to Halo 1 would fail on today's market since there are no other games like it. It would really stand out among modern shooters, but even aside from gameplay 343 seems incapable of making a game that meets the high standards of a AAA title.

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The Arena shooter elements are actually the only thing H5 has going for it. The maps, storyline, overall content and non-gameplay features are a joke compared to other AAA titles (besides Titanfall maybe)

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