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CyReN

Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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I honestly think the sandbox is solid with a 5 shot pistol, slightly nerfed AR, BR/Snipe aim mag toned down.

 

I just dont see a 4sk pistol being realistic.  All of the "Pro 4sk people" should make a custom lobby and record the footage to let us see what it looks like. What is the main reason for 4sk? To stop the "thrusting away"?  I still think people are going to be thrusting away like mad men.

 

Halo 5s movements are different than traditional halo and what was once considered "out of position" has now changed because of thruster.  

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Yes, local theater takes what happened on your box, lightly compresses it (barely any loss of quality), and puts it in a file. Nice and simple, no networking involved.

 

H5 server theater (we are assuming) is using an amalgamation of all the game states it's receiving throughout the match to create a single theater file. You'd have to compare captured footage to a theater film to figure out just how much liberty the system is taking with the data. I'd assume it would take all the compensation measures into account, but I'm honestly not sure it draws the theater file from the maintained host game-state or if it puts the all the client data through it's own separate set of processes.

 

It would actually be very telling if we compared theater files of the same game from multiple boxes, as well as theater files vs. actual captured footage. For example, If multiple theater files of a single game from various boxes are identical, we know everything is done by the servers.

 

Are theater files actual video data, or are they dynamically generated like PC game "demo" files?

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You can call it a matter of taste, but the fact of the matter is that when the kill times (whether perfect or average) are too high, and when there are other factors at play like open-air/tower-based map design, your shooting skill doesn't become the prevailing factor in whether your team progresses in the match. Instead, it becomes a matter of how many crosshairs you can get on one particular person. This leads to slow, stagnant gameplay where players try to hold down power positions for a long time and retreat easily from death back into the safety of a sphere of influence that is not governed by competent shooting but by sheer numbers.

 

What Halo has been missing since CE is the ability of a single player to do serious damage off spawn, without needing a power weapon or item.

This a billion times.
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Are theater files actual video data, or are they dynamically generated like PC game "demo" files?

I heard theater was recreations of what happened in matches using a shit ton of data to pinpoint exactly what happened in each instant of the match. At least from what I remember reading from Bungie

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The pistol as it is right now is outdone by every other precision weapon, it has a TTK that's pretty much the same but is much harder to use.  The difficulty of the pistol does not properly reward players that use it perfectly because alternative like the BR and DMR are much easier to use.  When I was talking about power weapons people that are using them are hardly under pressure when they're up against a pistol user, there's not much risk to using power weapons improperly so they aren't punished for messing up or being caught off guard due to how underwhelming the pistol is.

That's the point though, there needs to be a reason to pick up weapons, and that's what the balance really means.  If you're good with it, the pistol can outdo the other weapons, if you're not good with it, then pick up a DMR or BR and hopefully you won't run into a magnum user that can outshoot you.

 

The pistol isn't underwhelming though, so if you're not cross map you should be able to handle a sniper minus lucky snapshots. That again is the point, you need a reason to pick up the dmr or br so you don't get outshot across map. Or you have to move around the map and flank the sniper.

 

I mean there was real thought put into each weapon this game.  Smart people made the decisions they made.

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Are theater files actual video data, or are they dynamically generated like PC game "demo" files?

 

Demos for sure, EDIT it's compressed game data, so positions, shots fired, object movement, etc. Not the same as networking game data.

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Demos for sure, though they are likely compressed.

 

I think I'd like to see the coding scheme that goes into something heavily context-dependent in the time domain that. Works for MP3s pretty well.

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I like that nade trap.  going to be using that one.

 

My Main problem with it is the noise it makes. Earlier today i was going across snipe spawn and a loud buzzing was going on that made it hard to hear anything else, had no clue what it was, only solution was to leave the area. Saw the video and realized what it was.

 

 

 

 

Also, Glad it's not just me, but the sniper is way to easy to use, I mean, i can actually be good with it!

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That's the point though, there needs to be a reason to pick up weapons, and that's what the balance really means.  If you're good with it, the pistol can outdo the other weapons, if you're not good with it, then pick up a DMR or BR and hopefully you won't run into a magnum user that can outshoot you.

 

The pistol isn't underwhelming though, so if you're not cross map you should be able to handle a sniper minus lucky snapshots. That again is the point, you need a reason to pick up the dmr or br so you don't get outshot across map. Or you have to move around the map and flank the sniper.

 

I mean there was real thought put into each weapon this game.  Smart people made the decisions they made.

If other rifles on the map are preferred over the pistol it isn't a utility weapon at all.  Halo shouldn't be a game of rock-paper-scissors, you need to spawn with a weapon that you can competently defend yourself with at all ranges against all weapons.  The pistol in it's current state doesn't fulfill that role.

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I honestly think the sandbox is solid with a 5 shot pistol, slightly nerfed AR, BR/Snipe aim mag toned down.

 

I just dont see a 4sk pistol being realistic.  All of the "Pro 4sk people" should make a custom lobby and record the footage to let us see what it looks like. What is the main reason for 4sk? To stop the "thrusting away"?  I still think people are going to be thrusting away like mad men.

 

Halo 5s movements are different than traditional halo and what was once considered "out of position" has now changed because of thruster.  

Why stop at 4

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I think I'd like to see the coding scheme that goes into something heavily context-dependent in the time domain that. Works for MP3s pretty well.

 

I definitely noticed a bit of simplification to my actual vs theater reticle movement in Halo 3, but it was very slight, almost imperceptible, hence it didn't screw over the montage makers like the current system.

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If other rifles on the map are preferred over the pistol it isn't a utility weapon at all.  Halo shouldn't be a game of rock-paper-scissors, you need to spawn with a weapon that you can competently defend yourself with at all ranges against all weapons.  The pistol in it's current state doesn't fulfill that role.

They are not necessarily preferred over other weapons, the pros stick with the magnum plenty. 

 

Yes it does, you can competently defend yourself with the pistol against any other weapons.  Yes you can.

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If other rifles on the map are preferred over the pistol it isn't a utility weapon at all.  Halo shouldn't be a game of rock-paper-scissors, you need to spawn with a weapon that you can competently defend yourself with at all ranges against all weapons.  The pistol in it's current state doesn't fulfill that role.

It's not rock paper scissors though. The pistol straight up kills faster than the BR. By picking up the BR you are picking up a relatively easy to all purpose weapon, but conceding that you may be out gunned by spawning players if you aren't careful. I think a lot of players are already at the point where they'd prefer the pistol to the BR in a close range fight, and the best players don't seem to have trouble competing with BRs/DMRs at range either.

 

 

I basically agree with everything Vobble Wobble and Nj Pro are saying. Glad im not the only one in these forums that doesn't think the game needs major gameplay overhauls to be a competitive 4v4 shooter

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They are not necessarily preferred over other weapons, the pros stick with the magnum plenty. 

 

Yes it does, you can competently defend yourself with the pistol against any other weapons.  Yes you can.

You are at an inherit disadvantage if you don't pick up a rifle over the pistol.  The pistol has less aim assist than all the other rifles, a smaller potential for kills before reloading than than the other rifles, and a TTK on par or even slower than the other rifles, it isn't an utility weapon because it doesn't fulfill it's role or fit the definition.  

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It's not so much a dick measuring contest as I think it's funny that you're so desperate to trash 343 at every possible turn, you chose to attack them regarding an issue with server-side replays that's an inevitable consequence of how netcode works

 

The only possible workaround would be upload 8 clientside replays and come up with some way to stitch them together, which is more frustrating than you think because if you took all 8 perspectives and watched them from an overhead view or something, they never totally match up

 

The game would probably have to fade to black for a second while it recalculated everything from the replay when switching views

 

So how come it worked perfectly in Halo 3 and Reach? (can't confirm H4 and H2A, never used theater in these games).

 

Before you say "only first person views from one player", why not use approximations for these as well? It's already used for player positions, actions etc, why not align the theater clip perfectly with the player PoV and the approximate the PoV of all other players?

 

From what I understand: in H5 we have Theater clips that are aligned to the host, which is the dedicated server, so therefore they aren't aligned to ANY player, which makes theater basically worthless.

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It's not rock paper scissors though. The pistol straight up kills faster than the BR. By picking up the BR you are picking up a relatively easy to all purpose weapon, but conceding that you may be out gunned by spawning players if you aren't careful. I think a lot of players are already at the point where they'd prefer the pistol to the BR in a close range fight.

It very much is rock-paper-scissors right now when it comes to weapon balance.  The pistol kills faster than the BR by about a hundredth of a second, the DMR is essentially a pistol with a larger magazine and more aim assist, the Carbine and LR kill much faster than the pistol.  The pistol doesn't properly reward players for it's difficulty of use which is why it's not the ideal starting or utility weapon. 

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The AR may beat the pistol at medium range if you're standing still and they hit every headshot, but if you're shooting and strafing and using abilities like you should be, the magnum will win.  They did test it, and it seems like it's what works best... remember pro team?

It's not outdone by every weapon though.  It can beat DMR and BR and AR and SMG if you're playing right.

It may work best for pro team, because they are pros, but most people aren't going to have the accuracy and consistency that pros have. I know I don't, but does that mean I should lose a battle to a kid walking in a straight line spraying his AR?

 

If you're using pistol and the other guy that is using DMR, BR, SMG is "playing right" too, you're going to lose almost every battle and are lucky if you get a trade.

 

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You are at an inherit disadvantage if you don't pick up a rifle over the pistol.  The pistol has less aim assist than all the other rifles, a smaller potential for kills before reloading than than the other rifles, and a TTK on par or even slower than the other rifles, it isn't an utility weapon because it doesn't fulfill it's role or fit the definition.  

No you're not, because it's balanced.  It shoots faster, TTK is faster, it also reloads faster. It actually gives you an advantage if you can aim.

 

It's 100% a utility weapon, the literal definition, because it can beat any other weapon, minus maybe power weapons, but no "utility" weapons are meant to outshoot those, that's why they are rare.

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A quick question to the Mods.

 

http://teambeyond.net/forum/topic/10822-improving-the-arena-ranking-system/ this thread just got closed because it's about Halo 5 and it should apparently be posted in this thread.

 

What's the difference between that thread and this http://teambeyond.net/forum/topic/10735-issues-w-halo-5-ffa/, both threads are pretty in-depth in explaining their purpose and both provide solutions to their problems in detail.

 

And then a thread like this http://teambeyond.net/forum/topic/10817-halo-5-multiplayer-map-layouts/ that really doesn't need to have it's own thread is kept open with no issues.

 

I know TB likes big singular threads but sometimes I feel they are too broad and important and cool posts can get skimmed and not discussed as much as they deserver.

 

My question is where's the line between something that deserves it's own thread and something that goes into a big singular thread like this.

 

@@Proto @@Saucey @@CyReN

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It may work best for pro team, because they are pros, but most people aren't going to have the accuracy and consistency that pros have. I know I don't, but does that mean I should lose a battle to a kid walking in a straight line spraying his AR?

 

If you're using pistol and the other guy that is using DMR, BR, SMG is "playing right" too, you're going to lose almost every battle and are lucky if you get a trade.

No, if you can't beat an AR with a guy walking in a straight line, then I can't help you.  You may have to switch to the AR, or pick up on of the other rifles.  But the other rifles don't give you a better option than the magnum.

 

No you're not, to the second point.  The mag shoots faster and out shoots those other guns, so you won't lose.

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No you're not, because it's balanced. 

I stop you right there.

 

Why is it balanced?  Why would it be worth using the pistol over rifles that kill faster and are easier to use over it?  How is it a utility weapon if it's outdone by weapons that aren't even power weapons?

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You can call it a matter of taste, but the fact of the matter is that when the kill times (whether perfect or average) are too high, and when there are other factors at play like open-air/tower-based map design, your shooting skill doesn't become the prevailing factor in whether your team progresses in the match. Instead, it becomes a matter of how many crosshairs you can get on one particular person. This leads to slow, stagnant gameplay where players try to hold down power positions for a long time and retreat easily from death back into the safety of a sphere of influence that is not governed by competent shooting but by sheer numbers.

 

What Halo has been missing since CE is the ability of a single player to do serious damage off spawn, without needing a power weapon or item.

 

yup

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