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Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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On 10 it's incredibly hard for me to whip my crosshair around and it feels like it takes a long time to work its way up to it's intended sens.

 

I can 100% agree with this. I played on 4 sensitivity from HCE all the way to MCC. i hoped on Halo 5 and it felt extremely slow. I ended up raising my sensitivity every few minutes until it felt right and now I'm playing on 7.

 

But from my standpoint, I feel like players are just searching for reasons to complain about the game. As you said, this happens in almost all console shooters, some more than others. Players should just get used to it and point interest towards things that actually need to be changed, like matching Teams of 4 when your searching solo- my all time least favorite thing. 

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I genuinely think this game is almost close to "perfect". Honestly, I think if they keep the AR as it is and just remove it from the starting load out things will be fine. If they have to need anything, nerf the range. Keep it as an on map pick up like literally ever other tier 2 weapon and it won't be oppressive. Then make a 4sk pistol the primary weapon. I feel like those simple changes would take this game into a whole new level.

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I base the skill curve on a game on how often the opposition quits.

 

When halo CE on MCC came out and there was no ranks in 2v2, I would maybe get 1 out of every 10 games where the other team didn't quit as soon as they were down by 15 or so points.  In halo 5, I'm starting to see that in even 4v4.  The score is 20 something and one guy on the other team has just 1 kill so he quits.  

 

If you can't handle not quitting in something so simple as a video game with a horrible skill curve, how are you going to handle not quitting in real life?  :)

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Are melees slightly delayed when jumping? After trading off the first melee with someone, I feel like I will lose every melee fight if I jump.

 

I've noticed this too. Yet if you start the melee before you jump it works fine. Definitely feels a bit weird.

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Is the phenomenon we're dealing with a manifestation of lag, or rather just bad interpolation?

 

Both I think. Any lag spike that throws off the data I'm uploading to the server is going to create weirdness in the stuff you generate from it.

 

The interpolation is necessary to create a smooth online environment. The less data that needs to be sent between all the various devices involved, the better everything will run in real time. But it limits the quality of any post-game theater recreation.

 

You can't create an accurate Halo theater film from the bare essentials of client to client game data. Just like you can't recreate the Mona Lisa from a connect-the-dots coloring book.

 

So you do it locally, which gives you a 99.9% accurate representation of the game from at least one player's perspective, like we've seen on PC forever and in Halo since H3.

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My guess is that it's an upload bandwidth issue. You only want to send the most vital data to the server so you aren't interfering with shot and movement data. I'm not sure how much extra data it would take to send a 100% accurate set of your actions within the game, but I definitely don't want theater data fucking up my shot latency.

 

This problem didn't exist when we were doing it locally, which will always be the best solution.

 

I'm speculating on all of this. It could actually be locally processed and just dogshit.

 

Maybe it's locally processed but bc of the 60 frames cap theater accuracy takes a hit. Maybe the resolution would drop lower than 343 was comfy with.

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Warzone:

 

-Kid spends his hard earned $2.99 on a req pack and gets a tank.

-Brings the tank out in warzone

-Seconds later someone throws a sticky nade on the tank

-Kid throws his controller and rushes to the waypoint forums to cry about it

 

Good job 343i.... way to crush a kid's hopes and dreams.

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Sorry but I disagree heavily.

 

A 5sk pistol with no zoom and shit for red reticule distance is nowhere near appropriate for a starting weapon, especially in a game where  the mobility features make it so incredibly easy to avoid dying. The BR in Halo 2 took too long to kill, and that gun had more bullet magnetism than anything on god's green earth, so the H5 BR absolutely falls within the idea that the kill times need to be buffed. The DMR is clunky and not easy to be wielded up close. All of these things drive the average kill times to insane heights, especially in later manifestations of the game when everybody knows what's what on the maps and where to go or where not to go at any given time.

 

I couldn't care less about keeping the balance between the pistol, BR, and DMR, but it's undeniable that the kill times are too high in this game, probably the worst in the franchise. The fact that the AR actually competently factors in against the pistol is also a travesty, for reasons elaborated on in excruciating detail earlier.

 

Sorry for the double post if there is one, but 5sk pistol is absolutely fine. It isn't made to perfect shot every player across the map. The game would be boring in my eyes if it was BR start, it is just way too easy to use and is way to forgiving on a players aim. Everyone is complaining about bullet magnetism, but when I use the BR i find it hard to not kill someone in 4 shots. 

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Warzone:

 

-Kid spends his hard earned $2.99 on a req pack and gets a tank.

-Brings the tank out in warzone

-Seconds later someone throws a sticky nade on the tank

-Kid throws his controller and rushes to the waypoint forums to cry about it

 

Good job 343i.... way to crush a kid's hopes and dreams.

Got to be smart with what you have

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Maybe it's locally processed but bc of the 60 frames cap theater accuracy takes a hit. Maybe the resolution would drop lower than 343 was comfy with.

 

Yeah, this could also be it. I'd be very surprised if the 60fps target wasn't the primary reason for the film quality drop.

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Warzone:

 

-Kid spends his hard earned $2.99 on a req pack and gets a tank.

-Brings the tank out in warzone

-Seconds later someone throws a sticky nade on the tank

-Kid throws his controller and rushes to the waypoint forums to cry about it

 

Good job 343i.... way to crush a kid's hopes and dreams.

If you spend actual money on REQ packs you belong on the Waypoint forums.

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I swear to god, every single time someone brings up something important like 4SK Pistol or a messed up Theatre, the conversation always gets derailed.

 

Can we focus on the important shit instead of fucking CS hitboxes? Appreciated.

So back to Grifball....

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You're right, the balanced weapon sandbox argument doesn't REALLY matter that much for good competitive settings. It's sort of just a bonus that every weapon is viable in the game's current state. Even in pro matches lots of players pick up the light rifle, storm rifle, smg etc. But then there are players like snipedown who mostly pass those up and just use the pistol.

 

A 4SK pistol would definitely be a drastic change that is tries to solve a problem that doesn't exist. There are really very few things wrong with the game mechanics. BR is a little easy, magnetism is forgiving, AR scoped might be a little stronger than it should be, but that's about it. It's hard to say if a 4SK pistol would even help these so-called skill gap problems. Faster TTK with the same gun might just make worse players less likely to choke, and give good players less chance to strafe/juke.

 

And sprint thrust and clamber definitely don't feel like cheating mechanisms. Sprint is the worst offender for sure, but it's almost not a problem in this game. Thrust is just plain good and is skillful. And as far as clamber goes, there are plenty of jumps where you still gain a significant advantage by not clambering, and plenty more that require more spartan abilities in combination to hit.

 

Core gameplay changes really aren't necessary. The game is just plain good.

as much of a cheerleader everybody knows I am for thrust, it is NOT an ideal application of the concept, it's overly simplified and limiting, making it easier to use in damaging ways, than it can be in beneficial ways, which I think it has, but let's not say that it's this great mechanic that does nothing but raise the skill gap when if anything it AT BEST breaks even.
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And no, I'm not admitting anything to you when this is apparently a dick-measuring contest to you. We're trying to figure out how theater works which has nothing to do with the actual mechanics of the shooter in question. It's a pure problem of networking architecture and data.

It's not so much a dick measuring contest as I think it's funny that you're so desperate to trash 343 at every possible turn, you chose to attack them regarding an issue with server-side replays that's an inevitable consequence of how netcode works

 

The only possible workaround would be upload 8 clientside replays and come up with some way to stitch them together, which is more frustrating than you think because if you took all 8 perspectives and watched them from an overhead view or something, they never totally match up

 

The game would probably have to fade to black for a second while it recalculated everything from the replay when switching views

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It is just criminal how there's no Firefight 3.0. Seriously, the REQ system seems more at home in something like Firefight than what is essentially BTB with a few AI enemies in it.

 

I'd also think that making Firefight in Halo 5 would be extremely easy. Just do what Reach did and take specific areas of the Campaign, and turn them into a Firefight level. Hell, like half of the enemy encounters in Halo 5 basically take place within a big arena where you have to defend yourself against several waves of enemies anyway. Just mess with the enemy spawns a bit, slap some REQ stations on the map, and let the players use their custom Spartans, and bam, you've got Firefight.

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Sorry but I disagree heavily.

 

A 5sk pistol with no zoom and shit for red reticule distance is nowhere near appropriate for a starting weapon, especially in a game where  the mobility features make it so incredibly easy to avoid dying. The BR in Halo 2 took too long to kill, and that gun had more bullet magnetism than anything on god's green earth, so the H5 BR absolutely falls within the idea that the kill times need to be buffed. The DMR is clunky and not easy to be wielded up close. All of these things drive the average kill times to insane heights, especially in later manifestations of the game when everybody knows what's what on the maps and where to go or where not to go at any given time.

 

I couldn't care less about keeping the balance between the pistol, BR, and DMR, but it's undeniable that the kill times are too high in this game, probably the worst in the franchise. The fact that the AR actually competently factors in against the pistol is also a travesty, for reasons elaborated on in excruciating detail earlier.

 

The pistol definitely does have a zoom, and kill times seem fine in the top pro streams ive been watching a ton of. There's nothing wrong with needing some help from teammates to get an overkill. I get that you want faster TTK, but what problem does that actually solve? The game is built around the current TTK, and 1 week in it seems to play great. Do think you its too hard to make progress in objective games if one player can't get a double/triple off of a single flank?

 

There's a pretty strong argument to be made that 4v4s are better in H2C and H3 than they are in CE. And this game has more potential than either of those games did at launch. Couple that with the fact that the 4SK pistol change would require 343's hand (pretty much a pipe dream at this point), I just don't understand why the idea is promoted so heavily in these beyond forums.

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I don't think that's exactly the main issue with people complaining about aim. A lot of whats going on there happens in just about every console shooter, but it's the levels of these factors that vary in each game. I'm assuming the biggest factor, which isn't talked about in that video, is the way that aim acceleration feels for those who wish to play on a medium and higher sensitivity. I have very twitchy aim and like high sensitivities. On 10 it's incredibly hard for me to whip my crosshair around and it feels like it takes a long time to work its way up to it's intended sens.

 

 

The style of aiming in this clip is just impossible with the current system. Even just a toggle between this style and the current one would make me happy (though a slider is the optimal solution).

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What games have you guys been playing? Every halo game ive ever played has started you out with little to no default options.

I feel like that's news to me. Armor was always locked behind something whether it was achievements, in game currency, or commendations. 

 

To expand on your previous post, it really doesn't discourage completionists. Achievement Hunters will still 100% this game no matter the what they get in-game for it. Obviously a percentage of the sales of REQ packs won't help esports since we already have a $1M prize pool but this has been something a lot have been wanting for awhile now. The free maps is debatable but I have no doubt they would charge if we didn't have microtransactions

I don't have answers to either of these, or a strong opinion I want to argue.  I was just attempting to list some of the points Angry Joe made in his review since multiple people requested it.  You should really just watch it if you want to understand his perspective.

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I base the skill curve on a game on how often the opposition quits.

 

When halo CE on MCC came out and there was no ranks in 2v2, I would maybe get 1 out of every 10 games where the other team didn't quit as soon as they were down by 15 or so points.  In halo 5, I'm starting to see that in even 4v4.  The score is 20 something and one guy on the other team has just 1 kill so he quits.  

 

If you can't handle not quitting in something so simple as a video game with a horrible skill curve, how are you going to handle not quitting in real life?   :)

This is an interesting metric, 343... take notes.

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Yeah, this could also be it. I'd be very surprised if the 60fps target wasn't the primary reason for the film quality drop.

Still interested in the reason why the dropped splitscreen. If it's even a technical reason.

 

If it is it makes me question how much budget they actually have.

 

Anyways, it seems logical that the would sacrifice theater accuracy for in-game real time resolution in this theoretical scenario.

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Warzone:

 

-Kid spends his hard earned $2.99 on a req pack and gets a tank.

-Brings the tank out in warzone

-Seconds later someone throws a sticky nade on the tank

-Kid throws his controller and rushes to the waypoint forums to cry about it

 

Good job 343i.... way to crush a kid's hopes and dreams.

I wonder how many people actually buy REQ packs

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Both I think. Any lag spike that throws off the data I'm uploading to the server is going to create weirdness in the stuff you generate from it.

 

The interpolation is necessary to create a smooth online environment. The less data that needs to be sent between all the various devices involved, the better everything will run in real time. But it limits the quality of any post-game theater recreation.

 

You can't create an accurate Halo theater film from the bare essentials of client to client game data. Just like you can't recreate the Mona Lisa from a connect-the-dots coloring book.

 

So you do it locally, which gives you a 99.9% accurate representation of the game from at least one player's perspective, like we've seen on PC forever and in Halo since H3.

 

So what I'm getting here is that when theater is generated locally, it is completely disregarding any host/client conflict and relying solely on what's being shown on screen, whereas when theater is generated and stored on the cloud, it is being created after the resolution of the client's data vs. the host's data (and not applying any compensation for measuring ping or interpolation).

 

It's not so much a dick measuring contest as I think it's funny that you're so desperate to trash 343 at every possible turn, you chose to attack them regarding an issue with server-side replays that's an inevitable consequence of how netcode works

 

The only possible workaround would be upload 8 clientside replays and come up with some way to stitch them together, which is more frustrating than you think because if you took all 8 perspectives and watched them from an overhead view or something, they never totally match up

 

The game would probably have to fade to black for a second while it recalculated everything from the replay when switching views

 

The fuck are you talking about, bashing 343? I'm sitting here trying to work out the fine details of how theater works as a matter of curiosity, not going on a developer-bashing crusade, you fucking weird person.

 

The pistol definitely does have a zoom, and kill times seem fine in the top pro streams ive been watching a ton of. There's nothing wrong with needing some help from teammates to get an overkill. I get that you want faster TTK, but what problem does that actually solve? The game is built around the current TTK, and 1 week in it seems to play great. Do think you its too hard to make progress in objective games if one player can't get a double/triple off of a single flank?

The problem it solves is the problem that has existed in this game for 10 straight years, which is an over-reliance on teamshot due to the ease with which a player can avoid dying which is compounded by a number of different issues. This is absolutely an issue of limiting what a player can do by themselves, it takes away from the ability of a player to do damage on their own because attacking will just result in a 1-to-1 trade.

 

There's a pretty strong argument to be made that 4v4s are better in H2C and H3 than they are in CE. And this game has more potential than either of those games did at launch. Couple that with the fact that the 4SK pistol change would require 343's hand (pretty much a pipe dream at this point), I just don't understand why the idea is promoted so heavily in these beyond forums.

 

There is no argument that H2 and H3 4's are better than CE that originates from a philosophy of design. Add more spawn points to H1, tweak a few of the objective settings (like auto pickup, etc.), and it crushes any other 4s experience in the series.

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Still interested in the reason why the dropped splitscreen. If it's even a technical reason.

 

If it is it makes me question how much budget they actually have.

 

Anyways, it seems logical that the would sacrifice theater accuracy for in-game real time resolution in this theoretical scenario.

 

They say it came down to resources and getting it working with the 60fps target. The amount of polygons and effects they wanted on screen combined with 60fps apparently didn't leave room for one of Halo's major selling points.

 

Would be interesting to know exactly why the engine can't vary in fps or resolution enough to accommodate at least 2-player arena split, if it could even be understood by the layman.

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