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Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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We need forge on day 1 to keep the community alive. Shutting off the custom game community for two months is going to leave a mark. We need the full game on day 1. We can't have 50% of the game released on launch especially since they are already done with these features and refusing to release it later as "free DLC".

 

Did I miss something? Are you saying that H5 won't have custom games right off the bat or that not having Forge will effect the quality of custom games?

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ill be happy with reach population numbers tbh

so would I, perhaps a bit less, moderate success is what we need so that halo doesn't have to suffer another huge shift in gameplay philosophy, and so that it can actually be in a position to refine the current direction into something better.

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Did I miss something? Are you saying that H5 won't have custom games right off the bat or that not having Forge will effect the quality of custom games?

The latter. Forge and custom games go together like peanut butter and jelly. 

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We need forge on day 1 to keep the community alive. Shutting off the custom game community for two months is going to leave a mark. We need the full game on day 1. We can't have 50% of the game released on launch especially since they are already done with these features and refusing to release it later as "free DLC".

Yeah it's disappointing, it will have an effect but I don't think the lack of forge will be that substantial.  How much people enjoy the main experiences - Arena/Warzone/Campaign - will effect the population the most.  I think the competitive environment at launch will create intense and exciting games, rather than the pointlessness of Halo 4s gameplay and lack of ranking.  Halo 5 looks miles ahead of 4, I just hope the mainstream population agrees that it's better than the battlefront/battlefield/cod alternatives.

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Someone mentioned The Sprint in here earlier so I've been going through that for the last hour or so. Really love seeing the development process on something so huge. Its also given me even more hope for the game as they really seem to have their heads/hearts in the right place

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The latter. Forge and custom games go together like peanut butter and jelly. 

Yes but saying it will die is kinda untrue. Customs weren't dead in H1 H2. They weren't as awesome but saying they will die is a bit extreme. 

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The latter. Forge and custom games go together like peanut butter and jelly. 

For real...

 

I already had a nice idea for Empire:

 

Cover the entire balcony with walls so the sun can't get in and only use the lights on the actual map itself. Now, play infection with zombies having those glow in the dark swords and survivors having the shotguns w/ flashlights. 

 

Yeah, sounds good to me. :P

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I feel like only a select few playlists should be ranked.

 

There definitely needs to be unranked playlists for players to avoid ladder anxiety and for playing with less skilled friends.

 

I play Halo with my brother. We're WCG champions so obviously ranked is where we want to be.

 

But on the other end of the spectrum I also play with my wife as well who couldn't care less about ranks. She enjoys winning, but there's no way she's going to have fun if she's partnered with me and I'm matching us up with Diamond/Onyx/Platinum when she's on par with Silver players.

 

This will just make her not want to play if she can't play with me and just have fun.

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For real...

 

I already had a nice idea for Empire:

 

Cover the entire balcony with walls so the sun can't get in and only use the lights on the actual map itself. Now, play infection with zombies having those glow in the dark swords and survivors having the shotguns w/ flashlights. 

 

Yeah, sounds good to me. :P

What so is forge not in the game at launch or is it that the maps intended for forge are not in the game at launch?

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I'm really worried that the Big Team Battle playlist is literally only going to consist of maps made in Forge.

It won't. 343i's said the BTB maps will be custom made for the gametype. They'll be unique.

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Yeah it's disappointing, it will have an effect but I don't think the lack of forge will be that substantial.  How much people enjoy the main experiences - Arena/Warzone/Campaign - will effect the population the most.  I think the competitive environment at launch will create intense and exciting games, rather than the pointlessness of Halo 4s gameplay and lack of ranking.  Halo 5 looks miles ahead of 4, I just hope the mainstream population agrees that it's better than the battlefront/battlefield/cod alternatives.

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I'm really worried that the Big Team Battle playlist is literally only going to consist of maps made in Forge.

What Ice said. 343 are creating maps like Warzone or Arena. Not Forge

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Why don't they just do a ranked/social split like in Halo 3? Have a dual ranking system where you rank up in both.

 

I don't see how that is hard to do. Halo 3's playlist structure pleased everybody just copy and paste that.

 

I suggested that somewhere on reddit and was met with "why do we need a ranked and social version of Arena?" and "343 wants to consolidate as many playlists as possible to help with matchmaking" and other really stupid responses.

 

Launch time is when they should have the MOST available for people to play, ranked and social variations of all the 4v4 game types, Team snipers, doubles, etc. The population will be the highest at launch and shortly thereafter, which is when you want to give people the option to play the game the way they are used to/like to play it. If you limit these things, it will instantly drop the population. Prime example: I played Reach and didn't stay past a day or two, and H4 had awful variety at the start. Sure, Reach fixed a lot of issues, but too little too late. If H4 had had throwdown from the start, or whatever this "Legendary team slayer" or something mode that is rotating in the Halo 4 playlist on MCC, I might have actually played more than a couple days. 

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Nice idea, Doubles and FFA can F-off to Social though. If we are going to limit it don't beat around the bush

 

Dude, we had WCG Halo devoted to 1v1 and 2v2 before Halo 3 came along...

 

2v2 is VERY competitive and if 1v1 doesn't suck in Halo 5 1v1 is the ultimate display of skill.

 

Yes, you're right LoL is 5v5, CS is 5v5, etc, however that's because other formats don't work.

 

1v1 in LoL is pointless since a champion can just straight up counter another champion.

 

1v1 in CS is pointless because it's an asymmetric objective game with multiple paths to the objective.

 

Since Halo is an arena shooter 1v1, 2v2 AND 4v4 are all viable for tournaments.

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What so is forge not in the game at launch or is it that the maps intended for forge are not in the game at launch?

Forge is not in the game at launch. Coming December.

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This is a bit of a stretch

 

Uh.... What?

 

This is an FPS with its roots in arena shooters.

 

Want to know what format most Unreal Tournament and Quake tournaments are in?

 

I'm not saying MLG should be 1v1, however 1v1 definitely displays who the better player is, as long as the game supports 1v1 properly.

 

No Halo game since Halo 1 has supported 1v1 and Halo 5 probably isn't the answer, however if by some chance 1v1 is good in Halo 5 I'd definitely want to see tournaments for it.

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You're assuming that unranked means no skill-based matchmaking in effect. Even without visible ranks, matchmaking should be solving for like skill. And if it didn't, you're overlooking the fact that the situation you are trying to solve for your wife (having her get frustrated playing against Diamond+ skill players) is the same one you are wishing on the people she would prefer to play against with you. In that case, YOU would be the Diamond+ player romping on someone else and HIS wife, frustrating the shit out of them.

 

Matchmaking will do its best to find the best combination of skill between teams w/ a wide range of talent. But it's not an easy problem to solve and usually winds up with lower caliber talent getting frustrated.

 

I think that was his point though (if not then lmk Pyroteq). If all the playlists are ranked, then the skill gap becomes a huge issue. All lists should be searching for the best possible match skill-wise, but if there's a social variant of a ranked list (basically, a hidden rank for the playlist: think LoL normals here where everyone has a hidden MMR to make games not completely 1-sided, but allows people to play with their bad friends and not have anything actually on the line), then the disparity doesn't mean much as even though its matched on skill the best as possible, people can relax and not stress about losing rank if you are indeed playing with a friend or family member who is well below your skill level.

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I see the downside of not having forge right off the start, but I don't think it will be detrimental to the game's success. I am looking forward to being able to play fun forge maps in customs when it is released. However, I believe the game has enough content to sustain the community long after forge has launched. Forge will only add to the awesome content provided for this game.

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Yeah I get that. Removing ranks from a bunch of lists is one way to deal with the issue. The other is letting the players decide which play list to care about when it comes to CSR. Maybe that's Team Arena for one person and Team Slayer (or even Breakout!) for another. Preserve the list you care most about and play socially in the others. Or go full try hard and refuse to play social in any list unless using a secondary account (easy on XB1).

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You're assuming that unranked means no skill-based matchmaking in effect. Even without visible ranks, matchmaking should be solving for like skill. And if it didn't, you're overlooking the fact that the situation you are trying to solve for your wife (having her get frustrated playing against Diamond+ skill players) is the same one you are wishing on the people she would prefer to play against with you. In that case, YOU would be the Diamond+ player romping on someone else and his wife, frustrating the shit out of them.

 

Matchmaking will do its best to find the best combination of skill between teams w/ a wide range of talent. But I t's not an easy problem to solve and usually winds up with lower caliber talent getting frustrated.

 

@@Sal1ent

 

I fully realise this and I'm sure most games have some sort of hidden ranking system even if it's not displayed.

 

However, I think that's what people here want a solution for.

 

If I search an unranked playlist in other Halo games we can generally have fun, even if my hidden rank is quite high.

 

This may be because people don't try as hard or maybe it's other people like me searching with their less skilled buddies.

 

So while I might find the game quite easy, it's not like I'm going 50:0 every game. I'll still die a decent amount of times, especially when you don't have team mates backing you up and controlling the rest of the map.

 

I'm not the game developer and I don't have all the statistics and math in front of me, but perhaps a social playlist would simply take all players ranks into account and try to balance the teams as best as possible with a larger degree of leniency.

 

If each team has a Diamon, Silver, Gold and Bronze than obviously the bronze players will get killed the most, but at least they still have a chance against the bronze and silver players, possibly even the gold.

 

I don't think anyone here expects the bronze player to somehow get an awesome K:D in a social game, they just want somewhere they can play casually and not even think about their rank.

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