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Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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The more I watch of H5, the more competitive potential I see. Honestly, if this game had no sprint, no clamber, no air hover and no pointless assassinations, then this game would be a 10 out of a 10. I am definitely doing a Reddit post when the beta goes live, and I will ask for your guys support on it, especially people who have close ties to the Halo Reddit community.

 

343 wants to make a competitive focused game? Well, let's help them do that.

I agree. It definitely has potential competitively, but I feel there's a lot of nonsense that needs to be fixed, and you pretty much covered the major problems there.

There are two problems with Halo 5 that I just can't see being fixed, and those are Sprint and Clamber, which is unfortunate because they happen to be the two features I hate most. The reason I can't see them being fixed is because they are the types of features whose problems can only be fully avoided by their complete removal, and I think most people would agree that those features just aren't going to be removed. Pretty much every other problem with Halo 5 is something I can see them fixiing in the ways that would be appropriate.

 

I don't actually ever look on Reddit, but if I see you post a link around here then I'll definitely check out your post. I actually can't wait to see the in-depth feedback that different people give once the beta is live. I plan on doing something similar. 

One thing I'd like is for people around here to really discuss everything in as much detial as possible and to really home in on the realistic fixes that will be best for Halo 5, and then to put it all together in a letter for 343, similar to what happened with that Halo 4 feedback letter.

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I have made a lot of posts on how much I hate everything I've seen from Halo 5. In my opinion, I think the game will suck and no matter how much feedback they get from the beta, that the game will still suck because I think it would need to be rebuilt from the ground up. Despite all that, I would like to know what anyone on these forums has seen in the game that they actually like and how they believe it will benefit the game and I don't want to spend hours and hours going through 150+ pages finding little pieces here and there. The only thing I've seen that's good is less auto-aim. So what is it that some of you like?

1. The community has a good POV this time around, when reach/4 came around people didn't really know what to think, this is evident by how disappointed people were despite how much was known, halo 5 on the other hand was the most sobering reveal I have seen, the reason I suspect is that it's more in line with what I expected, which means that not only will the community react in a more sensible fashion, but we will also be able to give much better feedback than "the sniper looks like a toaster"

 

2. Halo 5 will likely be more balanced this time around, from the removal/changes to AA's to the relatively faster killtimes I think it'll be pretty well balanced from day 1.

 

3. Spectator mode/ranks mixed with noob friendly elements like weapon waypoints and Spartan chatter should mean a better competitive title than we've seen in a long time.

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The more I watch of H5, the more competitive potential I see. Honestly, if this game had no sprint, no clamber, no air hover and no pointless assassinations, then this game would be a 10 out of a 10. I am definitely doing a Reddit post when the beta goes live, and I will ask for your guys support on it, especially people who have close ties to the Halo Reddit community.

 

343 wants to make a competitive focused game? Well, let's help them do that.

With a few tweaks I genuinely believe this title could easily surpass H2 and come close to H1 competitively. However, it also has potential to be the absolute worst Halo we've ever had as well.

 

Sprint:

  • If sprint operates even close to how it has in Reach/4, its going to be a problem. Fast killtimes will definitely help but if sprint is much over 125% of base movement speed its not going to matter. It will still be a crutch that reduces the importance of good positioning and map control.
  • We've already seen its effects on map size. The maps in H5 look huge.
  • Solution: be like Murder Miners: reduce sprint to about 120% of base speed and make it so you can quickly shoot upon exiting sprint. Do not adjust maps for sprint. If you have to adjust maps for sprint than the sprint you've implemented is too fast.

ADS:

  • Right now some of the scopes look like trash, especially the DMR.
  • Needs to function exactly the same way as zoom in used to.
  • Solution: take the size of the old zoom in scope and just model the ADS animation around that so that functionally everything is exactly the same.

Clamber:

  • I don't think it'll be an enormous issue if the maps are designed correctly but a wall jump would be better in every way.
  • Seriously just replace this with wall jump.
  • Everyone who has played Murder Miners will tell you how awesome wall jump is.
  • Wall jump would add increased flexibility and verticality to both movement and actual combat.

Ground Pound:

  • I honestly think this is just in there for the eye candy. Really seems pretty stupid to give players who already have a height advantage the ability to drop on players and kill them.
  • I hope its removed but if it absolutely has to stay just make it hugely tough to do.

Air Hover:

  • Just put it on a different button than zoom in so people can still do dropping zooms without being forced to hover. 
  • As long as we regain the option to zoom in while dropping I think this will be fine. Its going to leave anyone who uses it a sitting duck so it'll be well balanced in terms of risk vs reward. 

All in all if H5 ends up as a game with tons of movement flexibility and fast but difficult to achieve ideal kill times, its going to be a fantastic Halo. On the other hand, this game could also end up feeling like a disgusting Destiny hybrid. How the base spartan abilities are tweaked/changed/removed combined with the quality of the maps is going to determine which end of that spectrum the game swings towards. 

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I have made a lot of posts on how much I hate everything I've seen from Halo 5. In my opinion, I think the game will suck and no matter how much feedback they get from the beta, that the game will still suck because I think it would need to be rebuilt from the ground up. Despite all that, I would like to know what anyone on these forums has seen in the game that they actually like and how they believe it will benefit the game and I don't want to spend hours and hours going through 150+ pages finding little pieces here and there. The only thing I've seen that's good is less auto-aim. So what is it that some of you like?

 

It's not that I really like much added to Halo 5, it's that I don't really hate anything added to Halo 5.  There's a lot of little things I dislike, such as clamber and stabilizers, but it's not strong enough to turn me off from the game.

 

I like thrusters. I understand why some people hate them, but overall I personally feel its a good addition.  I admit they can allow you to escape, but at least you have to be close to cover to begin with, unlike sprint where you can just run at cover from the middle of the map.  They could use a slight nerf in range to make this more difficult.  Besides just running away though, they do add a significant amount of utility.

 

If clamber is made more difficult to pull off, it will be okay.  Not as good as crouch jumping, but close enough.

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Air Hover:

  • Just put it on a different button than zoom in so people can still do dropping zooms without being forced to hover. 
  • As long as we regain the option to zoom in while dropping I think this will be fine. Its going to leave anyone who uses it a sitting duck so it'll be well balanced in terms of risk vs reward. 

There is an option to toggle the air hover off.

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It's not that I really like much added to Halo 5, it's that I don't really hate anything added to Halo 5.  There's a lot of little things I dislike, such as clamber and stabilizers, but it's not strong enough to turn me off from the game.

 

I like thrusters. I understand why some people hate them, but overall I personally feel its a good addition.  I admit they can allow you to escape, but at least you have to be close to cover to begin with, unlike sprint where you can just run at cover from the middle of the map.  They could use a slight nerf in range to make this more difficult.  Besides just running away though, they do add a significant amount of utility.

Yeah the way I feel about default Thrusters is that they should be treated as something that can enhance strafe and create new trick-jump opportunities, as opposed to being a running away type mechanic. If it allows only for a really short distance of movement, but very fast, and also has a fairly long cool-down time, then I think it would be an awesome addition to Halo.

 

I really like the idea of thrutsing always being in first person. It just seems better to me for some reason.

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Yeah the way I feel about default Thrusters is that they should be treated as something that can enhance strafe and create new trick-jump opportunities, as opposed to being a running away type mechanic. If it allows only for a really short distance of movement, but very fast, and also has a fairly long cool-down time, then I think it would be an awesome addition to Halo.

 

I really like the idea of thrusing always being in first person. It just seems better to me for some reason.

One thing I would like to add to this, and something that has annoyed me since about thrusters is that while you are thrusting you are not allowed to shoot, to me this is the single biggest flaw with it and frankly should be changed, not only would it make thrusters less defense/evade oriented but it would also mean a whole new type of montage/skillgap to the game.

 

As for clamber as long as there are jumps that are only accessible via clambering then it should be ok, just don't reduce it to a simple crutch and to me it would be acceptable.

 

I want people to understand that most of the changes are based on aesthetics and not gameplay, same reason bungie got rid of ladders and replaced them with grav lifts.

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Noticed in the gameplay these options that I haven't seen in previous videos:

 

9b0fbd7d85c136b7142369d02f1c9d41.png

 

 

Clench Protection: Prevent accidental clicks when thumbsticks are held for a long period of time

 

End Sprint via Button: While sprinting, pressing the sprint button stops sprint when set to on

 

Maintain Sprint: Maintain speed during thruster pack, clamber, and reload if the movement thumbstick is held forward

 

Auto-Stabilize: Automatically maintain position during Smart Scope in mid-air when set to On. Press the Sprint button to stabilize during Smart Scope when set to Off

 

 Hold to Clamber: Hold the Jump button to clamber when set to On. Press jump a second time to clamber when set to Off.

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NEW

This is the most promising gameplay shown so far to me. Pistol looks like a good starting weapon, extremely fast kill time if you can land the shots, but looks really hard to do. It can be used cross map, but takes very precise aiming, which means you'll want to pick up a BR or DMR as soon as you can. Pistol/AR starts might actually work out. SMG didn't look nearly as powerful as it does in breakout also, but might still need a nerf, who knows.

 

@1:24 he gets punished for clambering improperly, caused him to get the sword slower and die. Also, fast kill times made it so he had no time to sprint away. 

 

@3:36 shows the lack of auto aim punishing the reach-style "sweep aim." If this game had Reach's aim assist, he would have landed those shots.

 

@7:36 the only reason he lost to the AR guy is because he was missing shots

 

DMR seems real weak compared to BR, on this map at least. Seems like the DMR's main use is cross-map shooting, as it seems to have a disadvantage in most 1v1 scenarios. Also DMR's scope is basically the only one that doesn't look great to me. all the other ones look good. 

 

I didn't notice any instances that sprint got somebody out of a bad situation. Thruster pack will probably need a higher CD, but i think the distance it goes is fine.

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Noticed in the gameplay these options that I haven't seen in previous videos:

 

9b0fbd7d85c136b7142369d02f1c9d41.png

 

 

Clench Protection: Prevent accidental clicks when thumbsticks are held for a long period of time

 

End Sprint via Button: While sprinting, pressing the sprint button stops sprint when set to on

 

Maintain Sprint: Maintain speed during thruster pack, clamber, and reload if the movement thumbstick is held forward

 

Auto-Stabilize: Automatically maintain position during Smart Scope in mid-air when set to On. Press the Sprint button to stabilize during Smart Scope when set to Off

 

 Hold to Clamber: Hold the Jump button to clamber when set to On. Press jump a second time to clamber when set to Off.

 

Is there any option to prevent sprint :P

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I'm looking forward to the beta, though I really don't like seeing Midship in just because it's so much bigger, and plays so much slower. The spartan chatter is interesting; maybe you could toggle it on or off for specific teammates? If the feature was improved a bit (Spartans called out who killed them, and where an enemy is when they hit another player with bullets) it could help fill the gaps left by mic-less players, or those who simply don't know callouts. It would definitely have to be turned off for actual matches, as it should not be powerful enough to more or less replace communication between players.

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The good news is, with equal starts and no loadouts, the BR vs DMR debate it's over before it even begins this time around. I mean, it's clear that they designed the dmr for mid-long combat, and it seems like it's no match for the BR on small maps. I would've preferred just one (single shot) UNSC utility weapon, but at least this will avoid us a lot of beating that dead horse.

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The good news is, with equal starts and no loadouts, the BR vs DMR debate it's over before it even begins this time around. I mean, it's clear that they designed the dmr for mid-long combat, and it seems like it's no match for the BR on small maps. I would've preferred just one (single shot) UNSC utility weapon, but at least this will avoid us a lot of beating that dead horse.

I'd honestly prefer BR and DMR to be equal in kill times and you'd pick up one or the other based on the fact you like burst shot vs. single shot. Burst=easier headshots, single= no stray bullets causing you to lose a fight. 

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The good news is, with equal starts and no loadouts, the BR vs DMR debate it's over before it even begins this time around. I mean, it's clear that they designed the dmr for mid-long combat, and it seems like it's no match for the BR on small maps. I would've preferred just one (single shot) UNSC utility weapon, but at least this will avoid us a lot of beating that dead horse.

Loadouts were never really used for halo 4 (competitively) so your point is moot, 343i playing an active role in establishing settings should help unify the community somewhat so hopefully we won't see the same GP/unity/Orange garbage we saw from 4 (no offense)

 

Oh and I would like to give RUL some credit for providing the best content so far, just thought I would give credit where credit is due.

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I'd honestly prefer BR and DMR to be equal in kill times and you'd pick up one or the other based on the fact you like burst shot vs. single shot. Burst=easier headshots, single= no stray bullets causing you to lose a fight. 

i don't know, if you already got one good utility weapon i don't really see the need for another, extremely similar one. I'm by no mean an expert in the matter but it sounds like cluttering the sandbox.

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Loadouts were never really used for halo 4 (competitively) so your point is moot, 343i playing an active role in establishing settings should help unify the community somewhat so hopefully we won't see the same GP/unity/Orange garbage we saw from 4 (no offense)

 

Oh and I would like to give RUL some credit for providing the best content so far, just thought I would give credit where credit is due.

Yes, but the BR was underpowered in vanilla Halo 4, and the DMR was better in almost every respect. That's why there was even a discussion in the first place; the halo community -as a whole- will always take a good BR over a good DMR due to the BR popularity, even if it's not the best option (unfortunately). Also, this DMR seems considerably less viable at mid and short-mid range.

P.s. sorry for the double post.

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Yes, but the BR was underpowered in vanilla Halo 4, and the DMR was better in almost every respect. That's why there was even a discussion in the first place; the halo community -as a whole- will always take a good BR over a good DMR due to the BR popularity, even if it's not the best option (unfortunately). Also, this DMR seems considerably less viable at mid and short-mid range.

P.s. sorry for the double post.

I have a differing opinion on what a "utility weapon" should be i think. I don't like a utility weapon that is clearly the best in all scenarios. I like pistol as our "utility" for H5, because it is strong close range, is hard to use long range yet still effective, giving it a clear weakness. BR and DMR would outshine pistol long range, but if the person with the pistol can contend mid-range. So basically, you'd ideally want a BR and pistol, or BR and AR, or something similar. I like Pistol/AR start for this game potentially because it places importance on weapon drops other than power weapons, but also you don't feel useless/at a big disadvantage off spawn.

 

Maybe this could even go so far as to have different maps/gametypes have different starts as well, but I doubt the community would ever accept that.

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I like that DMR is weaker - gives it more of a support role. Or anti-sniper. We don't need clones of weapons just so single-shot and burst-fire people will both be happy.

 

Pistol bloom needs to go. Just make its RRR shorter. As long as Pistol kills as fast as BR, we'll be fine. BR should be slightly easier to use IMO, so people have a reason to pick one up. Or 2-shot beatdown is good enough. 

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I still don't know how I should feel about Halo 5. If sprint is here to stay then they have to severely limit its use as a defensive capability which is something faster kill times will do but having both thruster AND sprint? Having both just feels like it's too much. As for clamber I just don't see the need for it in halo. It will either result in "lets raise this platform so they have to use clamber" or "lol messed up my jump onto that platform but by the magical use of clamber I can climb on up." In my view there is honestly zero point in having it in the game.

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I still don't know how I should feel about Halo 5. If sprint is here to stay then they have to severely limit its use as a defensive capability which is something faster kill times will do but having both thruster AND sprint? Having both just feels like it's too much. As for clamber I just don't see the need for it in halo. It will either result in "lets raise this platform so they have to use clamber" or "lol messed up my jump onto that platform but by the magical use of clamber I can climb on up." In my view there is honestly zero point in having it in the game.

To me halo 5 really made me think of Halo 3 more than anything, maybe it was just me lol.

 

Like I said previously most of the changes were based on aesthetics and had little to do with gameplay, I honestly expect it to play like the first trilogy more so than reach/4, despite how it looks.

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