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CyReN

Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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So Australia gets helicopter-LAN and we get nothing?

 

Come on Halo devs, get with it.

 

*Your controller has disconnected. Please connect your controller*

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I'm down for AR and Pistol starts, but I too am afraid of the game backing an AR/SMG fest while also a game of who can find the first BR. I personally would prefer a 4 shot pistol or something. 

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I like the opportunism. One the one hand BR starts are bad because the pistol requires "so much more skill", on the other hand (when the argument calls for it), that gap is small enough to not even justify picking up a BR because it's "not that much easier to use"

 

The mental gymnastics you guys are making to rationalize why there aren't utility rifle starts anymore is always good for some entertainment.

Even if something is a little bit more difficult to use, it should be what's used over other options.

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I'm down for AR and Pistol starts, but I too am afraid of the game backing an AR/SMG fest while also a game of who can find the first BR. I personally would prefer a 4 shot pistol or something.

*3. Go big or go home. Increase fire rate and finally swap it out for legendary magnum.

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But when you factor in the burst fire it means the kill time is going to be a bit longer if shots in the burst are missing. Better range and ease of use is the main benefit of a BR.

No matter how you word it, the thing is going to have a lower average TTK. There is no getting around this issue.

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No matter how you word it, the thing is going to have a lower average TTK. There is no getting around this issue.

Based on what? Why is it good to have a lower average killtime?

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Based on what? Why is it good to have a lower average killtime?

 

U serious man? I swear you're fuckin' with me

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U serious man? I swear you're fuckin' with me

Totally. We don't know how the BR is going to play out, how many bullets it will take to kill, and how it's going to behave with thruster in the game to shake up battles.

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A good pistol will be better than an equally good BR.

Yup, and that is totally ignoring the point lol.

 

That's like saying if Robert Griffin III throws as well as Aaron Rodgers, he will be the better Quarterback because he can run better.

 

Or saying I can out BR Snipedown if I 4 shot and he 5 shots.

 

Or that JJ Reddick is more valuable than Shaq in his prime because 3 pointers count for more than points in the paint.

 

Let's look at the likely frequency of that happening... lol.

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Or saying I can out BR Snipedown if I 4 shot and he 5 shots.

No, you're not allowed to do that. You specifically said equally-matched teams.

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No, you're not allowed to do that. You specifically said equally-matched teams.

I'm not talking about Halo 5 in specific, I'm not referring to my exact example. I'm just saying that if my bicycle had three wheels, it would be a tricycle.

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I'm not talking about Halo 5 in specific, I'm not referring to my exact example. I'm just saying that if my bicycle had three wheels, it would be a tricycle.

What are you even trying to say?

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What are you even trying to say?

That if you're defending the pistol being better than the BR, and you are just citing a perfect pistol beating a perfect BR, it's a swiss cheese argument.

 

You're just not accounting for the DIFFICULTY and the FREQUENCY of your point coming to fruition. That's all. 3 pointer shots in Basketball may be worth more than layups, but they happen to be much more difficult. Me out BR'ing Snipedown would happen maybe once a game, and he would kill me 15 times. But the kill time on my 4 shot is better than his 5 shot with the same weapon. It's POSSIBLE that I can outperform him, but it's difficult, and infrequent.

 

That is my point with the pistol vs the BR. In a vacuum, yes it's possible for a perfect pistol kill with a perfect cadence to beat a BR with a perfect cadence. But from what I have seen with the pistol from pro players, and FELT with the BR in my own hands, I have no doubt in my mind that perfect kills are going to be infrequent in a game where people aren't walking in straight lines. The BR with its extra range, auto aim, and partial credit due to burst fire will make it the more powerful weapon.

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That if you're defending the pistol being better than the BR, and you are just citing a perfect pistol beating a perfect BR, it's a swiss cheese argument.

 

You're just not accounting for the DIFFICULTY and the FREQUENCY of your point coming to fruition. That's all. 3 pointer shots in Basketball may be worth more than layups, but they happen to be much more difficult. Me out BR'ing Snipedown would happen maybe once a game, and he would kill me 15 times. But the kill time on my 4 shot is better than his 5 shot with the same weapon. It's POSSIBLE that I can outperform him, but it's difficult, and infrequent.

 

That is my point with the pistol vs the BR. In a vacuum, yes it's possible for a perfect pistol kill with a perfect cadence to beat a BR with a perfect cadence. But from what I have seen with the pistol from pro players, and FELT with the BR in my own hands, I have no doubt in my mind that perfect kills are going to be infrequent in a game where people aren't walking in straight lines. The BR with its extra range, auto aim, and partial credit due to burst fire will make it the more powerful weapon.

The infrequency that you are referencing sounds a lot like the CE pistol.  Everybody claims it is OP because of tsk, but in fact the skill gap makes a tsk for most players a some what seldom occurrence.   If that's the way this new pistol works, then I'm all for it baby!

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That if you're defending the pistol being better than the BR, and you are just citing a perfect pistol beating a perfect BR, it's a swiss cheese argument.

 

You're just not accounting for the DIFFICULTY and the FREQUENCY of your point coming to fruition. That's all. 3 pointer shots in Basketball may be worth more than layups, but they happen to be much more difficult. Me out BR'ing Snipedown would happen maybe once a game, and he would kill me 15 times. But the kill time on my 4 shot is better than his 5 shot with the same weapon. It's POSSIBLE that I can outperform him, but it's difficult, and infrequent.

 

That is my point with the pistol vs the BR. In a vacuum, yes it's possible for a perfect pistol kill with a perfect cadence to beat a BR with a perfect cadence. But from what I have seen with the pistol from pro players, and FELT with the BR in my own hands, I have no doubt in my mind that perfect kills are going to be infrequent in a game where people aren't walking in straight lines. The BR with its extra range, auto aim, and partial credit due to burst fire will make it the more powerful weapon.

So you're going to bring up variables for the BR, but ignore everything the Pistol has to offer? Does the swap speed, fast reloads, and quick thrust recovery not matter suddenly?

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That if you're defending the pistol being better than the BR, and you are just citing a perfect pistol beating a perfect BR, it's a swiss cheese argument.

You're just not accounting for the DIFFICULTY and the FREQUENCY of your point coming to fruition. That's all. 3 pointer shots in Basketball may be worth more than layups, but they happen to be much more difficult. Me out BR'ing Snipedown would happen maybe once a game, and he would kill me 15 times. But the kill time on my 4 shot is better than his 5 shot with the same weapon. It's POSSIBLE that I can outperform him, but it's difficult, and infrequent.

That is my point with the pistol vs the BR. In a vacuum, yes it's possible for a perfect pistol kill with a perfect cadence to beat a BR with a perfect cadence. But from what I have seen with the pistol from pro players, and FELT with the BR in my own hands, I have no doubt in my mind that perfect kills are going to be infrequent in a game where people aren't walking in straight lines. The BR with its extra range, auto aim, and partial credit due to burst fire will make it the more powerful weapon.

 

Yup. Not sure how people aren't getting this - it's pretty simple.

 

Add in the fact that we're still talking about a Halo game with long kill times that will necessarily involve lots of teamshot, and the technical superiority of the pistol looks even more unrealistic. The entire meta around teamshot revolves around one of two things:

  1. Shooting at one enemy with a teammate so that you can kill him before he can kill either of you - or -
  2. Reliably put the most amount of damage into enemy before you die so that the person who killed you can be cleaned up by another teammate, or killed by a pushing teammate. 

In both scenarios, the important factor is hitting your shots, not having crazy individual skill. Considering this, an extremely effective strategy would be to try and use a weapon which gives you the highest chance if hitting your shots.

 

The infrequency that you are referencing sounds a lot like the CE pistol.  Everybody claims it is OP because of tsk, but in fact the skill gap makes a tsk for most players a some what seldom occurrence.   If that's the way this new pistol works, then I'm all for it baby!

 

It's not. To start with, the shooting skillgap is nowhere hear the H1 pistol. It's still hitscan, there still is a pretty good amount of Bullet Magnetism and Sticky Aim. The H5 pistols slow killtime also gives enemy players plenty of time to thrust/sprint or even just walk to safety. It has less range than the BR and DMR, less zoom, and is harder to use.

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The infrequency that you are referencing sounds a lot like the CE pistol. Everybody claims it is OP because of tsk, but in fact the skill gap makes a tsk for most players a some what seldom occurrence. If that's the way this new pistol works, then I'm all for it baby!

But that seldom occurrence you're hoping for won't be a 3SK at 0.6s but a miserable 5SK at 1.2

 

The CE pistol wouldn't have a reputation as a good or even skillful weapon of it perfect killed in the same time frame as the BR from every other Halo and had an average kill time over 2s

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