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Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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Apparently pros brought that up during the time they played, and 343 said they were aware it was a problem. I imagine they'll make it the sprint button midair or something.

 

Yeah, or at least hold the melee button in mid-air or something... You'd think that'd make way more sense than just outright removing a tried-and-true mechanic like that.

 

But nah, clamber is the new crouch-jump apparently... <_<

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2ljoqoi.jpg

 

- Maintains the skill-jump aspect of Halo and keeps it just as viable as it was before

- Is a new mechanic for Halo. Helps to keep things moving forward

- Ties into 343's idea of taking Halo forward by exploring the enhanced movement of a Spartan

- Allows for exactly the same thing as Clamber: getting to higher parts of the maps that normal jumps wouldn't allow for

OK you are selling me on clamber now because it has the potential to bring back vertical game play.

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With all of the new movement mechanics in Halo 5 I'm curious to see whether 343 will remake Guardian. That map was pretty popular for jumps iirc (never owned h3) and I think it'll be well liked in h5. Or a similar map. I don't think they'd do Lockout again seeing as we have it this year..

 

Halo 5 is appropriately titled Guardians anyway. 

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343 should of done a wall-jump or wall-kick instead of clamber, but like Frankie said in the H5 video "How do we introduce new movement mechanics but still make them accessible"? In other words, how do we introduce shit that people playing their first FPS can figure out their first or second time playing while still making it look like were building a competitive Arena shooter. Wall-jump/Wall-kick would actually take skill to time and execute instead of just holding B when your near a ledge like in modern FPS games, that is why they went with clamber instead.

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343 should of done a wall-jump or wall-kick instead of clamber, but like Frankie said in the H5 video "How do we introduce new movement mechanics but still make them accessible"? In other words, how do we introduce shit that people playing their first FPS can figure out while still making it look like were building an Arena shooter.

Accessible doesn't have to mean unskillful.

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Don't know if posted already

 

That SMG though...it's just...holy fuck.

 

Anyways...new discussion,

 

Does anyone think Breakout will have any potential for competitive play?  I personally don't think so, it seems like you just run in and rapidly kill people a single time for a couple of rounds before you win.  No real strategy or objective.  Wasn't too entertaining to watch either.

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Accessible doesn't have to mean unskillful.

No shit, but that doesn't give you a license to ignore what has happened to Halo since CE. It has a track record of becoming more accessible to casuals in detrimental ways to competitive gameplay. Developers have always made Halo more accessible by removing skill-based mechanics. It's a ridiculous trend that makes your response mystifying.

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That SMG though...it's just...holy fuck.

 

Anyways...new discussion,

 

Does anyone think Breakout will have any potential for competitive play? I personally don't think so, it seems like you just run in and rapidly kill people a single time for a couple of rounds before you win. No real strategy or objective. Wasn't too entertaining to watch either.

The only thing I can see breakout offering would be a way to avert terrible spawns, outside of that it seems somewhat pointless... maybe warm-up matches?

 

Breakout is lazy as fuck though, it's like 343i just gave up.

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That SMG though...it's just...holy fuck.

 

Anyways...new discussion,

 

Does anyone think Breakout will have any potential for competitive play?  I personally don't think so, it seems like you just run in and rapidly kill people a single time for a couple of rounds before you win.  No real strategy or objective.  Wasn't too entertaining to watch either.

The pros told 343 at the launch tourney it needed an objective I remember Lethul talking about it on stream. Without an objective it would get campy and such.

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No shit, but that doesn't give you a license to ignore what has happened to Halo since CE. It has a track record of becoming more accessible to casuals in detrimental ways to competitive gameplay. Developers have always made Halo more accessible by removing skill-based mechanics. It's a ridiculous trend that makes your response mystifying.

 

I hear the word "accessible" being thrown around so much by devs these days in Vidocs and such, but apparently the definition varies considerably around the industry because to some its just a nicer way to say "Dumbing down". How many times did we hear 343 say they are making the power weapon system more "accessible", Halo more "accessible" to modern audiences(aka making it more like CoD), and that Halo had a steep learning curve and we wanted to make it more "accessible" to new players in the H4 Vidoc? Its just a less controversial way to say "were dumbing this down" to 343 as the Spartan Wheelchair image proved.

 

What exactly is clamber doing? Making skill-jumping more "accessible"(aka dumbing it down) for players who do not wish to learn the intricacies of traditional skill-jumps that take proper map knowledge and skill to execute under pressure. I just feel bad for the trick-jumping community that has been around since HCE  :( RIP trick/skill-jumps  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ViVoFgtUgo

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That SMG though...it's just...holy fuck.

 

Anyways...new discussion,

 

Does anyone think Breakout will have any potential for competitive play?  I personally don't think so, it seems like you just run in and rapidly kill people a single time for a couple of rounds before you win.  No real strategy or objective.  Wasn't too entertaining to watch either.

This is a custom mode where people have lower damage resistance or something

 

That's why you're seeing an insanely powerful SMG and 3 shot pistol kills

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Accessible doesn't have to mean unskillful.

He meant it would take more time to develop the skill. And yes accessible does mean unskilled in the relative sense. He actually articulated his view very well.

 

His analysis is spot on.

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I hear the word "accessible" being thrown around so much by devs these days in Vidocs and such, but apparently the definition varies considerably around the industry because to some its just a nicer way to say "Dumbing down". How many times did we hear 343 say they are making the power weapon system more "accessible", Halo more "accessible" to modern audiences(aka making it more like CoD), and that Halo had a steep learning curve and we wanted to make it more "accessible" to new players in the H4 Vidoc? Its just a less controversial way to say "were dumbing this down" to 343 as the Spartan Wheelchair image proved.

 

What exactly is clamber doing? Making skill-jumping more "accessible"(aka dumbing it down) for players who do not wish to learn the intricacies of traditional skill-jumps that take proper map knowledge and skill to execute under pressure. I just feel bad for the trick-jumping community that has been around since HCE  :( RIP trick/skill-jumps  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ViVoFgtUgo

The idea behind making something "accessible" for a developer is to make a new player easily grasp the concept and understand it, but not necessarily be good at it. The problem is, by making people understand it right away, the tendency is to make the skill ceiling lower as well, because that is the easiest way for new players to understand and use a mechanic. 

 

I think with a lot of things, 343 is hitting the mark, but might miss it in others. The power weapon notifications let a new player know that something important is happening and they should go there and fight for it, but a good player/team will know how to set up for it and control an area before the spawn. I believe this is good for the game overall, because it doesn't affect the skill ceiling, it just helps new players understand the flow of the game. 

 

Where they may miss the mark is with clamber. It's showing the new players that making these jumps is good and important, but is lowering the skill ceiling at the same time by lowering the importance of skill jumps. I've said previously in this thread that as long as clamber has obvious downsides that place importance on landing skill jumps, this will be okay, but we'll have to see how 343 adjusts.

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breakout is basically the execution gametype for gow.  i guess quinn delhoy added it because of his gears background.  same problem when i played exec in gears.  no objective, very slow/campy.  idk how it played out in the gow LAN scene.  maybe the pros played it faster or slower 

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For Breakout 343 should remove obstacles on the battlefield every 20secs, and in the last minute it is just a plain/empty map, and therefore it would prevent camping imo.
Don't know if you see what I mean tho, gotta go to class my bad, can explain later if you want.

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Can we get rid ADS simply because it looks bad? Honestly, I liked the scope for the Magnum and BR when it was grayed out all around and had the reticule in the center of the screen. Now the magnum's iron sights look atrocious and I absolutely despise the RDS on the BR.

 

If they want to add a zoom for all of those weapons, then fine, but only if it doesn't look horrid.

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For Breakout 343 should remove obstacles on the battlefield every 20secs, and in the last minute it is Just a plain/empty map, and therefore it would prevent camping imo.

Don't know if you see what I mean tho, gotta go to class my bad, can explain later if you want.

It's really as simple as adding an objective to the map. every other solution i can think of is sub-optimal. your idea would prevent camping, but would remove a lot of skill in the matchup, because a team with superior map movement and awareness would lose any advantage, since the map essentially disappears. It would make the gameplay extremely 1 dimensional, because all teams would just camp it out then have a shootout at the end. might as well just drop them all into an octagon and call it a day.

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With Breakout killtimes as low as they are I really don't see camping being a problem. If anything it will make things more tense as each mistake will be very punishable.

 

I'm more concerned with it possibly being shoehorned into the competitive playlist. It strikes me as something more akin to SWAT or Grifball.

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Can we get rid ADS simply because it looks bad? Honestly, I liked the scope for the Magnum and BR when it was grayed out all around and had the reticule in the center of the screen. Now the magnum's iron sights look atrocious and I absolutely despise the RDS on the BR.

 

If they want to add a zoom for all of those weapons, then fine, but only if it doesn't look horrid.

 

The only one I can't stand is the DMR's ACOG scope.  Holy shit is that thing hideous.  I do like the look of the Magnum and BR though.

 

I think it doesn't need to be said though that none of us here would have much opposition to them changing the scopes back to normal.

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At least looks like there are no grenade indicators.

 

Perhaps 343 realised they massively nerf nades, especially when everyone has thruster.

 

Edit: also that empire map looks like a reskinned adrift, all corridors and hall way choke points. Sigh

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breakout is basically the execution gametype for gow.  i guess quinn delhoy added it because of his gears background.  same problem when i played exec in gears.  no objective, very slow/campy.  idk how it played out in the gow LAN scene.  maybe the pros played it faster or slower 

 

Breakout is actually Kevin (presumably Franklin)'s baby according to Quinn based on his experiences playing competitive Paintball.

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