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Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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I really don't understand the crying about the weapon sandbox, it seems they're purposefully trying to make weapons less redundant. SMG close, AR close-mid, BR utility-best at mid, DMR utility-best at long. Relatively quick kill time for the utility (BR 1.34s with increased kill times in Breakout) and low aim assist across the board - sounds awful >_>.

 

Wall jumping would be a good shout. Personally with what they've already shown I think you should be able to jump out of the clamber animation to increase what people are able to do with the mechanic to separate themselves, think G1 - G2 Guardian style jumps.

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it's not necessarily a new idea, but it definitely would fit Halo super well. The problem is theyd have to build maps with that in mind, so I highly doubt that we'll ever see it. wish we could see it though.

When I say new I mean something new for Halo.

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I think they have always been broken on some level.

 

The way I see it, except for Halo CE, the Assault Rifle has sat awkwardly between the SMG and Battle Rifle, never really being preferable to either weapon, while the Magnum is crammed in there in different ways as well. I'm not saying giving them a scope is the best solution, but I'm curious as to what roles you would assign the overlapping weapons (SMG, Magnum, AR) and what changes you would make to them.

 

To be honest I don't think its so much "automatics are broken" as it is "just what the hell is the point of the Assault Rifle?"

 

Also as for Clamber, I would've added a wall-kick mechanic like this instead:

http://i.imgur.com/IEczHbY.png?1

The wall kick is genius. Seriously why does 343 not hire the people who give great ideas like these?

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I really don't understand the crying about the weapon sandbox, it seems they're purposefully trying to make weapons less redundant. SMG close, AR close-mid, BR utility-best at mid, DMR utility-best at long. Relatively quick kill time for the utility (BR 1.34s with increased kill times in Breakout) and low aim assist across the board - sounds awful >_>..

Compared to the rest of the franchise you are correct in saying that it's relatively good, however it's still trash bro, not only will we face the same level of tension we did with 4 because of different weapon starts, we will also end up with a sandbox full of variations with a real lack of originality, oh and it's important to note that they could end up just making it worse from now on so hopefully we give them the right kind of feedback instead of "remove this" or "nerf that".

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Compared to the rest of the franchise you are correct in saying that it's relatively good, however it's still trash bro, not only will we face the same level of tension we did with 4 because of different weapon starts, we will also end up with a sandbox full of variations with a real lack of originality, oh and it's important to note that they could end up just making it worse from now on so hopefully we give them the right kind of feedback instead of "remove this" or "nerd that".

They could also make it better? Weapon loadouts were one of the best things in H4. Also the comp community doesn't have worry about being ostracized as the gametypes / settings we'll be playing will come directly from 343.

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The wall kick is genius. Seriously why does 343 not hire the people who give great ideas like these?

 

Because copying mechanics of whatever CoD game is out at the time is much more innovative.

 

 

 

Right?

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They could also make it better? Weapon loadouts were one of the best things in H4. Also the to community doesn't have worry about being ostracized as the gametypes / settings we'll be playing will come directly from 343.

The changes up until launch launch next year will be almost entirely dependant on the feedback from the community, that being said it could go either way.

 

I agree with weapon loadouts.

 

How confident are you in competitive settings made from 343i? How confident are you that we won't see resistance/backlash from the community? I expected them to make day 1 settings (and no slayer pro doesn't count) so at first there shouldn't be much disagreement, however after a while you'll likely see a rift among the community, the same way we did with halo 4.

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So I guess I'm one of the few who thinks the game looks like fun and will at least be an acceptable competitive Halo title.

Acceptable isn't good enough. Stop settling for acceptable and demand greatness instead.

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Whoever said that putting the reticle back in the centre of the screen would be unwanted, where have you been forever? Ever since it got changed for Halo 2 people have wanted it to be centred again.

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How confident are you in competitive settings made from 343i? How confident are you that we won't see resistance/backlash from the community? I expected them to make day 1 settings (and no slayer pro doesn't count) so at first there shouldn't be much disagreement, however after a while you'll likely see a rift among the community, the same way we did with halo 4.

It's not a case of confidence in 343, personally I haven't really decided either way - H2A will show somewhat what they're capable of. I simply don't expect backlash because I don't see backlash. 343 has the reigns, H2A will be played competitively on their settings, then the comp scene will move to H5 on 343's settings.

 

 

 

Clamber with added kick.

2lj2vxi.jpg

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My counter argument regarding the Wall Kick

 

And Why Clambering isn't as bad as you thought

 

I hope you guys find this post thoughtful

 

"Requires more timing to pull off with its specific "activation" box" - I haven't played the game but as far as I've seen, the window of opportunity doesn't really leave room for much error. I can't see pressing A at the right moment - especially when the player can hold A to the same effect - as something that requires more skill than timing a wall-kick so that you kick off at the right height to make it to the top.

 

"Is less random than the proposed wall-kick" - I don't know how the wall kick is random. The way I'm imagining it, you would have to kick off at the right height on the wall in order to get to the top. Please explain for me if I'm misunderstanding what would be random about it.

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So being able to aim down your sights is "NO ADS"?

 

And please stop using "spectator appeal". It's just a buzzword that can mean anything and nothing.

Whenever shitty decision needs to be rationalized people throw in "spectator something" as if that suddenly changed anything.

 

Edit:

 

To clarify what I meant:

 

The most competitive playlists have routinely had the lowest populations across Halo games. Playlist numbers correlated pretty well ( atleast before Halo 4) with stream numbers. Would there have been a higher population/stream numbers if the settings would have been noobified? Probably not, and even then, it wouldnt have made much of a difference.

 

The real factor for spectator appeal is how good the tournament production is,  how entertaining the casters are etc.

 

If the game has sprint or ads or not really does not matter the slightest for "spectator" appeal.

 

Actually art style has a lot to do with viewer appeal.

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2ljoqoi.jpg

 

- Maintains the skill-jump aspect of Halo and keeps it just as viable as it was before

- Is a new mechanic for Halo. Helps to keep things moving forward

- Ties into 343's idea of taking Halo forward by exploring the enhanced movement of a Spartan

- Allows for exactly the same thing as Clamber: getting to higher parts of the maps that normal jumps wouldn't allow for

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Also as for Clamber, I would've added a wall-kick mechanic like this instead:

http://i.imgur.com/IEczHbY.png?1

I don't understand why both couldn't be in the game. Clamber would require you to hold A and wall kicking tapping it, both would launch up with a similar split second animation allowing for the wall kick to transition into Clamber if you decide to hold it for a few frames. 

 

Or it could as simple as if you're within climbing range, Clamber kicks in automatically and if you choke you wall kick, which in a way, would leave you in the air for longer (also read: punish). But I'm afraid people might get accidental wall kicks and be punished for it.

 

Maybe L-stick facing behind you as you press jump button again to wall kick. And you should be able to do it "infinitely", at some point you're just going to love momentum and end up falling down anyway.

 

Here's what I mean about "infinite" wall kicking, but with a more steeper momentum drop off.

FirsthandObedientDrake.gif

 

Acceptable isn't good enough. Stop settling for acceptable and demand greatness instead.

I agree with this, but when we can't even get a working game almost two weeks after launch... your expectations and demands can only be so high.

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I don't understand why both couldn't be in the game. Clamber would require you to hold A and wall kicking tapping it, both would launch up with a similar split second animation allowing for the wall kick to transition into Clamber if you decide to hold it for a few frames. 

 

Here's what I mean about "infinite" wall kicking, but with a more steeper momentum drop off.

FirsthandObedientDrake.gif

I get what you're saying, but here's my personal reason for not feeling comfortable about the idea of an infinite wall-kick: it would mean that timing it right the first time isn't as necessary. What Ramirez suggests is perfect to me because when you only get one wall-kick per jump from the ground, it creates a situation where you absolutely have to time the jump at the right time in order to kick off from the right point on the wall. When you can do it infinitely, it kind of eliminates this part of it. Clarify for me if I'm missing something; this idea is very new to me so I'm still figuring it out in my head.

 

Also, I don't like the idea of both being in the game (though I'd take that over only having Clamber) because there's less incentive to use the skills involved in wall-kicking if you can simply Clamber your way up the wall. If wall-kick is the only option, then there's more room for error, but there's still the same amount of capability for travelling around the map, which is something I love about the idea.

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Seriously, some people would take armor abilities over spartan abilities?  :maven:

 

Strong SMG isn't bad unless there are too many on map.

 

One big thing we should push for in the Beta is AR & BR starts for all playlists. Two solid mid range weapons - if you want more close-range, you can pick up pistol or SMG. If you want longer range, DMR or LR. 

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I get what you're saying, but here's my personal reason for not feeling comfortable about the idea of an infinite wall-kick: it would mean that timing it right the first time isn't as necessary. What Ramirez suggests is perfect to me because when you only get one wall-kick per jump from the ground, it creates a situation where you absolutely have to time the jump at the right time in order to kick off from the right point on the wall. When you can do it infinitely, it kind of eliminates this part of it. Clarify for me if I'm missing something; this idea is very new to me so I'm still figuring it out in my head.

 

Also, I don't like the idea of both being in the game (though I'd take that over only having Clamber) because there's less incentive to use the skills involved in wall-kicking if you can simply Clamber your way up the wall. If wall-kick is the only option, then there's more room for error, but there's still the same amount of capability for travelling around the map, which is something I love about the idea.

After you posted that image, I definitely agree more to your version of wall kicking over Clamber, and I'd be fine with just that being in the game, taking into account the fact that you can use thrusters for a skill jump.

 

I also understand your point about how you have to time the jump at the right time, but rare are the situations where you will have two walls within wall kick distance of each other and then a ledge / window to reach up there, so when you think about it, it's almost never going to happen. If you were to be able to wall kick infinitely (and missed the jump the first time), you would be stuck in mid-air anyway, making you a more visible target than on the ground. If anything, you're exposed for longer AND more visible.

 

But I mean there's nothing wrong with just one wall kick either, I definitely like that idea of yours and I don't see a point in changing it, so I'll go along with it.

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My counter argument regarding the Wall Kick

 

And Why Clambering isn't as bad as you thought

 

I hope you guys find this post thoughtful

 

 

Hitbox Argument:  You could use this exact same argument for jumping in any Halo game, during the brief time between launching off the ground and actually landing on top of the box.

 

More time left in the air if you fail:  I.e. you are punished for failing.  If this is a problem, perhaps some way to quickly descend could be added.  But from what I understand people want players to be punished for failing trickjumps.

 

I don't necessarilly agree with the randomness argument either.  If we do want to consider this random, I don't feel it's significant.

 

Wall Kicking could easily have some form of an audio cue.

 

At present, I don't believe clamber is more difficult.  From what I've heard you can practically hold A down and do it automatically.

 

 

Infinite Wall Kick

 

I just don't think it's a good idea.  In skillful hands it could potentially have the same effect on map design that jetpack does.  Developers would have to go over their maps again and again to make sure someone can't just launch themselves to the very top in a short amount of time.

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After you posted that image, I definitely agree more to your version of wall kicking over Clamber, and I'd be fine with just that being in the game, taking into account the fact that you can use thrusters for a skill jump.

 

I also understand your point about how you have to time the jump at the right time, but rare are the situations where you will have two walls within wall kick distance of each other and then a ledge / window to reach up there, so when you think about it, it's almost never going to happen. If you were to be able to wall kick infinitely (and missed the jump the first time), you would be stuck in mid-air anyway, making you a more visible target than on the ground. If anything, you're exposed for longer AND more visible.

 

But I mean there's nothing wrong with just one wall kick either, I definitely like that idea of yours and I don't see a point in changing it, so I'll go along with it.

Ah ok I was imagining something slightly different. I thought you were talking about a wall-kick where players could actually walk-kick off of the same wall to get to the top, as opposed to needing two walls. In a situation where the player would need two walls placed next to each other like that, then I wouldn't be against the infinite wall-kick idea because, as you say, it would pretty much never be useful anyway.

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Is crouch-jumping even a thing anymore though? Ground-pound is set to "crouch" now I believe and is of course, a mid-air mechanic...

 

I really hope we don't lose crouch-jumping. :(

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Is crouch-jumping even a thing anymore though? Ground-pound is set to "crouch" now I believe and is of course, a mid-air mechanic...

 

I really hope we don't lose crouch-jumping. :(

 

Wow, I honestly didn't even realize that.  I forgot that crouching in midair was how you ground-pounded.

 

Welp, good bye crouch jumping.

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Wow, I honestly didn't even realize that.  I forgot that crouching in midair was how you ground-pounded.

 

Welp, good bye crouch jumping.

Apparently pros brought that up during the time they played, and 343 said they were aware it was a problem. I imagine they'll make it the sprint button midair or something.

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Wow, I honestly didn't even realize that. I forgot that crouching in midair was how you ground-pounded.

 

Welp, good bye crouch jumping.

Crouch jumping was so last year.

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