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Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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jXwzagP.png

 

cheap mspaint diagram

 

you do the skill jump to reach the point where you can clamber and if you fail you fall to your death or whatever

Oh I get what you're saying now! Lol that diagram was ace!

 

My only problem with that is that it doesn't seem to do anything more than introduce a redundant Clamber animation at that point. If what you're saying is that they could do it where all the Clamber jumps are only accessible through the use of skill jumps, then it seems to me that they'd be adding in Clamber jumps unnecessarily just for the sake of having them there, rather than as a tool for travelling vertically, if that makes sense?

 

Probably better than what they've actually gone with seeing as it still allows for a lot skill jumps.

 

+1 for that awesome diagram lol.

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So, I've watched some of the Ready to Play videos (the guy commentating them really annoys me). I've been vocal about my dislike of faux-ADS from the start. I still think it is a horrible addition but I would like to update my opinion on it. My main complaints are 1) Aesthetically it doesn't fit, 2) messes with lore, 3) Limits visibility on screen. I'm going to focus on the visibility issue.

 

Battle Rifle

The BR it doesn't look TO bad. Here are some images showing the different between Halo versions. I still drastically prefer Halo 2/3. I hate Halo 4. Halo 5 IMO needs to remove some of the bottom on the gun from the screen.

 

 

Halo 2

halo2_BR.png

 

Halo 3

halo3_BR_2.png

 

Halo 4 (I hate this one the most)

halo4_BR.png

 

Halo 5

Halo5_BR.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

DMR

The DMR looks horrible IMO. In Halo 5 the screen is basically all gun and your vision is extremely limited. I'm not saying the others look great but I'd take Halo 4's DMR HUD over the look of Halo 5. If they are going to keep this "faux-ADS" I think they need to change the scope of this gun.

 

 

Reach

haloreach_DMR.png

 

Halo 4

halo4_DMR.png

 

Halo 5

Halo5_DMR.png

 

 

 

I haven't even bothered looked at the other guns very closely yet. I haven't seen the rocket launcher at all and I can't remember seeing the sniper rifle either. Those are two I'd be very interested in. (EDIT: finally saw the sniper rifle scope, seems fine. Still looking for rocket launcher, keep seeing some other what looks like new weapons)

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At this point ill be happy if the game works...

 

They better not have any major issues with the beta. I can deal with the servers getting overloaded on the first day maybe two but no freezing/crashing, audio issues or matchmaking issues.

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So, I've watched some of the Ready to Play videos (the guy commentating them really annoys me). I've been vocal about my dislike of faux-ADS from the start. I still think it is a horrible addition but I would like to update my opinion on it. My main complaints are 1) Aesthetically it doesn't fit, 2) messes with lore, 3) Limits visibility on screen. I'm going to focus on the visibility issue.

 

Battle Rifle

The BR it doesn't look TO bad. Here are some images showing the different between Halo versions. I still drastically prefer Halo 2/3. I hate Halo 4. Halo 5 IMO needs to remove some of the bottom on the gun from the screen.

 

 

Halo 2

halo2_BR.png

 

Halo 3

halo3_BR_2.png

 

Halo 4 (I hate this one the most)

halo4_BR.png

 

Halo 5

Halo5_BR.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

DMR

The DMR looks horrible IMO. In Halo 5 the screen is basically all gun and your vision is extremely limited. I'm not saying the others look great but I'd take Halo 4's DMR HUD over the look of Halo 5. If they are going to keep this "faux-ADS" I think they need to change the scope of this gun.

 

 

Reach

haloreach_DMR.png

 

Halo 4

halo4_DMR.png

 

Halo 5

Halo5_DMR.png

 

 

 

I haven't even bothered looked at the other guns very closely yet. I haven't seen the rocket launcher at all and I can't remember seeing the sniper rifle either. Those are two I'd be very interested in. (EDIT: finally saw the sniper rifle scope, seems fine. Still looking for rocket launcher, keep seeing some other what looks like new weapons)

 

Psuedo-ADS doesn't effect gameplay right guys?  :rolleyes: Look at how perfect it looks in the other Halo's and then you just wonder why someone would want to change that. It looks absolutely disgusting on the BR and DMR.

 

Reminds me of this http://youtu.be/W1ZtBCpo0eU

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Honestly, smart scope looks good... except for BR & DMR. So fucking ugly. There needs to be a toggle for this - maybe smart scope for automatic/CQC weapons, and classic zoom for ranged weapons? OR just on or off for all weapons.

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Honestly, smart scope looks good... except for BR & DMR. So fucking ugly. There needs to be a toggle for this - maybe smart scope for automatic/CQC weapons, and classic zoom for ranged weapons? OR just on or off for all weapons.

I don't see why automatic/CQC weapons need a zoom function to begin with. Those weapons are mostly spray and pray as opposed to accuracy-based, so they require far less skill to use effectivitely. The fact that they had such limited range worked to make sure that there was still an advantage to be gained when using precision weapons. My worry is that automatic weapons will now be almost as viable as precision weapons at longer ranges, making skilled use of the BR/DMR/Pistol more redundant and less rewarding.

 

It's 343 doing their typical "we fixed what wasn't broken!" routine.

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It's 343 doing their typical "we fixed what wasn't broken!" routine.

Yeah when I saw the SmG with ADS it kinda broke my heart 

 

I'm still salty about it Gun looks better than any precision weapon in Short-Mid Range... 

 

That should be fixed before the Beta arrives seriously

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Oh I get what you're saying now! Lol that diagram was ace!

 

My only problem with that is that it doesn't seem to do anything more than introduce a redundant Clamber animation at that point. If what you're saying is that they could do it where all the Clamber jumps are only accessible through the use of skill jumps, then it seems to me that they'd be adding in Clamber jumps unnecessarily just for the sake of having them there, rather than as a tool for travelling vertically, if that makes sense?

 

Probably better than what they've actually gone with seeing as it still allows for a lot skill jumps.

 

+1 for that awesome diagram lol.

What it can do is give you a mechanism to lower the jump height while not impacting your ability to move around on the map

 

Personally I like H1/Reach jump height better but it's mostly just a preference thing. So you end up with the best of both worlds, H2 jump height for hopping around from platform to platform but H1 jump height for combat purposes

 

If clamber can't work like this, then yeah, it actually is a totally useless mechanic.

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I don't see why automatic/CQC weapons need a zoom function to begin with. Those weapons are mostly spray and pray as opposed to accuracy-based, so they require far less skill to use effectivitely. The fact that they had such limited range worked to make sure that there was still an advantage to be gained when using precision weapons. My worry is that automatic weapons will now be almost as viable as precision weapons at longer ranges, making skilled use of the BR/DMR/Pistol more redundant and less rewarding.

 

It's 343 doing their typical "we fixed what wasn't broken!" routine.

 

Uh, automatic weapons have needed a change since CE. Maybe this isnt the right way to fix that, but automatic weapons shouldn't remain as useless as they are in the other games.

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Uh, automatic weapons have needed a change since CE. Maybe this isnt the right way to fix that, but automatic weapons shouldn't remain as useless as they are in the other games.

They're not useless, they're just limited to short range, as I believe they should be. If they're so useless that they aren't even powerful at short range, which I don't even believe is the case, then the best fix would probably be to make them more powerful within that range. I can't see giving an AR and SMG such long ranges being a good thing.

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They're not useless, they're just limited to short range, as I believe they should be. If they're so useless that they aren't even powerful at short range, which I don't even believe is the case, then the best fix would probably be to make them more powerful within that range. I can't see giving an AR and SMG such long ranges being a good thing.

This. In H2A, the AR and the silenced SMG are both very viable for their intended range. Even the Plasma Rifle is useful as a good and skillful alternative to the dreaded Boltshot. Plasma Pistol isn't as OP as in Reach in CQC but otherwise, it's definitely back filling the "noob combo" niche, which, fortunately, has the drawback of being loud and being something you have to commit to. Pistol is the ultimate thing to use with melees, while being a headshot capable weapon and also dual-wieldable. 

 

H2A has done a great job with the sandbox, except for the Needler with ridiculously slow projectiles (not even fire rate, just the speed at which the shots travel is horrendous), but I know this was an attempt to replicate H2. In no situation ever it's good to use over the BR. 

 

I think it's just that in H5, the average encounter distance is just higher and weapon range is scaled up across the board for it. Now, the problem is just the amount of damage required for automatics. The AR could be at least 2-3 more bullets to kill (upped from 14) and the SMG given substantial recoil and we'd be onto something.

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"There needs to be a toggle for this" God damn how many toggles yall want? The options screen gonna look like a fucking Mcdonalds menu lol.

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The only thing I want from this game, is for it to be a good game out of the box.

 

Halo 1, 2 and yes even Halo 3 did this very well. The NUMBER 1 reason Halo died in the first place is that Reach needed to basically redone from the ground up in custom settings, and Halo 4 even went to the extent of 3rd party mods.

 

343 needs to get the settings right from Day 1, and the casuals need to play the settings we play in comp in public matches, much like LoL and CS. Only then will Halo 5 be a successful game, but the ranking system has already confirmed a buy for me, lol

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Honestly, the more I look at this, the more I feel a bitter sweetness.

 

We have a ton of movement options to choose from now, which makes the game a tad more Arena in said aspect. However, the execution of some of the options are a discouraging familiarity of casual ideas.

 

On one hand, if the developers are smart, they can make all new maps that are akin to the design of Unreal Tournament, or Quake. Asyms could be vertical and crazy, with interesting positions, teleporters, and unique meta. Syms could be versatile with multiple sight-lines, jumps, paths, choke points, and defense options. All in all, it could turn into something really fun and competitive.

 

On the other hand, we have long respawn times for power weapons, a ridiculous amount of space in-between cover and important positions, and maps that are too large to accommodate enough of a reason to push out and fight. This can negate the feel of an Arena game, which is something we simply cannot accept anymore.

 

I wouldn't call this a true Halo game, as it trades the simplicity out for something different. To me, this is like a more in-depth version of Murder Miners. I don't mind that, so I think Halo 5 Guardians will be a good game. Of course, we still need to voice our opinions.

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The only thing I want from this game, is for it to be a good game out of the box.

 

Halo 1, 2 and yes even Halo 3 did this very well. The NUMBER 1 reason Halo died in the first place is that Reach needed to basically redone from the ground up in custom settings, and Halo 4 even went to the extent of 3rd party mods.

 

343 needs to get the settings right from Day 1, and the casuals need to play the settings we play in comp in public matches, much like LoL and CS. Only then will Halo 5 be a successful game, but the ranking system has already confirmed a buy for me, lol

 

I really hope they also have the competitive HCS gametypes on the disc as well an ready to go.

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Honestly, the more I look at this, the more I feel a bitter sweetness.

 

We have a ton of movement options to choose from now, which makes the game a tad more Arena in said aspect. However, the execution of some of the options are a discouraging familiarity of casual ideas.

 

On one hand, if the developers are smart, they can make all new maps that are akin to the design of Unreal Tournament, or Quake. Asyms could be vertical and crazy, with interesting positions, teleporters, and unique meta. Syms could be versatile with multiple sight-lines, jumps, paths, choke points, and defense options. All in all, it could turn into something really fun and competitive.

 

On the other hand, we have long respawn times for power weapons, a ridiculous amount of space in-between cover and important positions, and maps that are too large to accommodate enough of a reason to push out and fight. This can negate the feel of an Arena game, which is something we simply cannot accept anymore.

 

I wouldn't call this a true Halo game, as it trades the simplicity out for something different. To me, this is like a more in-depth version of Murder Miners. I don't mind that, so I think Halo 5 Guardians will be a good game. Of course, we still need to voice our opinions.

 

If we use our opinions when the beta comes out correctly, major things can be changed. I want everyone on this website to be constructive, no "WOW 343 BLOWS" etc, put up lists on what is wrong, explain why it's wrong, and express how it should be changed. Hitzel's Reddit post on MCC Halo CE was bang on, and we should construct our opinions like that when the beta launches. Hell, I would not be surprised if @@Hitzel_89 did another Reddit list when the beta goes up (wink wink)

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I wouldn't compare Halo 5 to Murder Miners simply because Halo 5's movement animations restrict your ability to shoot, while Murder Miners NEVER restricts your ability to shoot.  That's why Sprint and everything else works in Murder Miners, but not in Halo Reach/4/probably5.  Not to mention that Sprinting, Dashing, and Walljumping are way more fluent and open up way more combat possibilities than Halo's ever have.

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I feel like some people out there that say "it still feels like Halo" only started playing the series after Halo 3. I feel the game is just as far removed from 1 & 2 as it has ever been.

 

Why that is so crazy to me is the further we moved from those originals the worse the games did of sustaining interest. And if the MCC shows us anything it is that the simplistic classic gameplay of 1 & 2 are just as fun today as they ever were and can hang just fine in modern games. The competitive scene is building with pros, orgs, and tourneys. Even with the game being essentially broken.

 

I mean it just seems crazy is all. Do less work, make a less complicated game, more people want to play it, be more successful. NO, we must #evolve. Huh?

 

 

PS: ground pound looks like it has way more range than I expected from comments from goldenboy. Honestly I'm starting to disagree with everything he says.

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From what I've seen and heard H5 looks good. They are going back to halo roots: Arena maps, competitive focus, equal starting weapons, weapons on map, low auto aim, ect... Yes, they have sprint,but the shield recharge mechanic seems like a solid balancing idea. The "spartan abilities" are a new feature that I'm skeptical about, but seems like it's more balanced when compared to reach and h4. I hope people realize halo needs to be fresh and new for it to grow, and if they keep the halo feel and a big skill gap I'm all for it. Just a note, I stated playing halo in 2002 and absolutely love h1-h3, but I honestly like what I've seen from H5 so far

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My worry is that automatic weapons will now be almost as viable as precision weapons at longer ranges, making skilled use of the BR/DMR/Pistol more redundant and less rewarding.

 

It's 343 doing their typical "we fixed what wasn't broken!" routine.

This is exactly what I see happening the SMG already looks too powerful as it is I mean what is going too be the point of the BR/DMR if the automatic weapons have the same range as the rifles but can do more damage.

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I feel like some people out there that say "it still feels like Halo" only started playing the series after Halo 3. I feel the game is just as far removed from 1 & 2 as it has ever been.

 

Why that is so crazy to me is the further we moved from those originals the worse the games did of sustaining interest. And if the MCC shows us anything it is that the simplistic classic gameplay of 1 & 2 are just as fun today as they ever were and can hang just fine in modern games. The competitive scene is building with pros, orgs, and tourneys. Even with the game being essentially broken.

 

I mean it just seems crazy is all. Do less work, make a less complicated game, more people want to play it, be more successful. NO, we must #evolve. Huh?

 

 

PS: ground pound looks like it has way more range than I expected from comments from goldenboy. Honestly I'm starting to disagree with everything he says.

I agree, they need to reduce the splash damage, either making it not take shields all the way out, or just reduce the range a decent amount, but it's not terribly far off from balance from what I've seen.

 

This is exactly what I see happening the SMG already looks too powerful as it is I mean what is going too be the point of the BR/DMR if the automatic weapons have the same range as the rifles but can do more damage.

I think the intent with the SMG is to make it a mid-range version of a shotgun (why it's a starting weapon on the breakout gametype makes no sense though, the increased dmg in that gametype makes those smgs kill on CoD levels.)

 

With the way the automatics work, they seem to be effective close range,, but you have to scope in to get past medium range to be effective. Shoot them out of scope and suddenly your precision weapons become king again.  as long as the ideal kill time of the AR is similar to a 5sk from the BR (miss one shot,) that should be balanced. The SMG will be fine if its map placement is treated like a shotgun; one or two on the map in places that are either inconvenitent so that you deliberately have to go for it, or in places that are contested. If they don't treat it that way, it needs a nerf for sure. 

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