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Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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I wrote that gigantic post and all you got from it is that I don't like clamber? Haha :)

 

I don't necessarily think that clamber is going to wreck the game, but I do think when you combine clamber with slide, sprint, ground pound and thrusters the game is going to basically be a COD/Titanfall clone. Which isn't a good thing. Halo is basically the last game not following the general military shooter groundwork set by COD and the general population of Halo doesn't want to play a Halo x COD/Titanfall/Destiny clone even if it plays relatively well within the context of a Halo x COD/Titanfall/Destiny clone, as proven by H4. 

 

I really don't understand why 343 seems to believe Halo needs to evolve so heavily. MCC generated more hype and interest in Halo than there has been since H3. Why do they keep throwing new ideas at the wall to see what sticks and even gluing stuff that didn't stick back on? We have this wonderful, successful game that is pretty much universally loved. Why keep taking these risks and fucking around with the formula?

I'm just tired of responding to every single point at the moment, haha. also, are you two people?  0_o

 

Just because some of the mechanics have a similar function to CoD/titanfall, doesn't mean the game plays like that. Everything I've seen of Halo 5 looks like a halo game to me. moreso than H4 by a long shot.

 

Also, at this point, none of this is evolution, the game already evolved, if anything, 343 are going back towards old Halo in a huge way. if you watch that pro gameplay from the reveal again, that looks amazing (op sword notwithstanding). just because the youtubers were shit at the game and were probably used to playing CoD, and therefore played it like it was CoD, doesn't mean the game is a knock-off of CoD. 

 

Hell, H5 probably started development before the most recent cod that added all the movement mechanics, or at least they had their mechanics in before CoD showed they had their movement mechanics. Just because the game comes out later doesn't mean it's ripping off CoD. 

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Nothing its just that sprint can be balanced makes gameplay more fast paced and you.People need to stop complaining the essentials of halo are balanced starts,no AAs,and small to medium sized competitive maps.

 

Yet it will still be slower paced than CE. CE is proof that we have absolutely NO reason to include sprint at all in Halo.

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I'm just tired of responding to every single point at the moment, haha. also, are you two people? 0_o

 

Just because some of the mechanics have a similar function to CoD/titanfall, doesn't mean the game plays like that. Everything I've seen of Halo 5 looks like a halo game to me. moreso than H4 by a long shot.

 

Also, at this point, none of this is evolution, the game already evolved, if anything, 343 are going back towards old Halo in a huge way. if you watch that pro gameplay from the reveal again, that looks amazing (op sword notwithstanding). just because the youtubers were shit at the game and were probably used to playing CoD, and therefore played it like it was CoD, doesn't mean the game is a knock-off of CoD.

 

Hell, H5 probably started development before the most recent cod that added all the movement mechanics, or at least they had their mechanics in before CoD showed they had their movement mechanics. Just because the game comes out later doesn't mean it's ripping off CoD.

In some ways they are returning to the core buy in a lot of other important ways they're moving further from the core.

 

Whether or not they're "copying COD" per say is kinda irrelevant. Who did it first doesn't really matter to me.

 

Like I originally stated, I do think the game looks like an excellent Halo at times. My point though is that there are also times when the game looks exactly like COD. There's a bit in one of the Greenskull gameplays where he hucks two grenades into a room, goes sprinting in and sprays two kids down with the SMG while using ADS, and it just looks heartbreakingly like COD.

 

It definitely all does come down to opinion at the moment of course, but from my end it looks like the beta we're going to be playing is going to feel like COD for a lot of the moments you experience during gameplay.

 

But regardless of opinion, I think one thing we can all agree on is that 343 being amenable to making REAL changes (not just making the BRs kill time .2 seconds shorter for example) based on beta feedback would be a good thing.

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Not everyone hates sprint.

 

I bet you used to think the world was flat too. You can like a concept, but sprint has been proven over and over to do nothing, but damage Halo. Science BEEP

 

 

 

- That Controller Scheme vid makes me want to play the Beta even less because of how messed up my muscle memory will get with such drastic changes. Also HILARIOUS that Default caters more towards CoD players, don't even hide the fact you(343) care more about pleasing CoD players than your own userbase.

 

- For the Sprint "Drawback" of No Sprint to Recharge. Does sprinting stop shields from recharging OR does it stop the timer from ticking down and shield recharge? By timer I mean lets say you take a shot and it takes 5 seconds to wait until shields start recharging, If I'm sprinting do those 5 seconds tick down while sprint and as soon as I stop sprinting I don't need to wait that time it will just start recharging. 

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I bet you used to think the world was flat too. You can like a concept, but sprint has been proven over and over to do nothing, but damage Halo. Science BEEP

 

 

 

- That Controller Scheme vid makes me want to play the Beta even less because of how messed up my muscle memory will get with such drastic changes. Also HILARIOUS that Default caters more towards CoD players, don't even hide the fact you(343) care more about pleasing CoD players than your own userbase.

 

- For the Sprint "Drawback" of No Sprint to Recharge. Does sprinting stop shields from recharging OR does it stop the timer from ticking down and shield recharge? By timer I mean lets say you take a shot and it takes 5 seconds to wait until shields start recharging, If I'm sprinting do those 5 seconds tick down while sprint and as soon as I stop sprinting I don't need to wait that time it will just start recharging. 

The sprint mechanic is:

 

There's a small bar above your shield bar you can see in gameplay, when it reaches the end, your shields recharge. If you sprint at any time during this countdown, it is reset.

 

It's not just CoD that has left trigger zoom. borderlands, destiny, killzone (i think,) the list goes on. its just there to make the players that are used to zooming with LT more comfortable. EVERY OTHER setting does not have LT zoom.

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In some ways they are returning to the core buy in a lot of other important ways they're moving further from the core.

 

Whether or not they're "copying COD" per say is kinda irrelevant. Who did it first doesn't really matter to me.

 

Like I originally stated, I do think the game looks like an excellent Halo at times. My point though is that there are also times when the game looks exactly like COD. There's a bit in one of the Greenskull gameplays where he hucks two grenades into a room, goes sprinting in and sprays two kids down with the SMG while using ADS, and it just looks heartbreakingly like COD.

 

It definitely all does come down to opinion at the moment of course, but from my end it looks like the beta we're going to be playing is going to feel like COD for a lot of the moments you experience during gameplay.

 

But regardless of opinion, I think one thing we can all agree on is that 343 being amenable to making REAL changes (not just making the BRs kill time .2 seconds shorter for example) based on beta feedback would be a good thing.

I think you thought i was quoting you before, when it was actually a different post, so that removes my confusion.

 

I think low-skilled gameplay is going to feel and look a little like CoD, because those are the players that play a lot of CoD. High level H5 gameplay is going to look and play great. 

 

As long as 343 uses this beta to really balance the game, anyway. They're showing they have the right mentality, so it's up to them to follow through. 

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Pseudo-ADS.  Interesting way to try to appeal to other demographics.  Good thing it seems to just be cosmetic.

Ledge-Climbing.  Never been a fan, but it will be interesting to see how map makers incorporate it.  Very worried that it isn't a suitable replacement for crouch jumping.

Sprint.  Sigh.

Ground Pound seems fairly balanced, less range and doesn't really need the float in air thing though.

Thruster Pack looks fun to use, could use less range as well.

Power weapons are called out in advance.  I don't mind this, I'm sure everyone else will (or already has) complained.

 

Saw a guy attempt a melee at closish range and fail, when I'm sure he would've launched at the person and got the kill if it was Halo 3 instead.  This is good, very good.

 

Aim assist seems to be at reasonable levels.

 

After watching that I'd say I'm cautiously optimistic.

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So I guess I'm one of the few who thinks the game looks like fun and will at least be an acceptable competitive Halo title.

 

Yeah I think we should take as much advantage of this Beta as possible to get what we want. I'm not expecting a game everyone will enjoy, don't get me wrong, but I appreciate the fact we're even getting a Beta again.

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So I guess I'm one of the few who thinks the game looks like fun and will at least be an acceptable competitive Halo title.

 

I think we have to accept that fact that 343 isn't going to change the way the series is going, so we have to enjoy it for what it is (if possible). The more I watch, the more enjoyable it looks to me, but not as enjoyable as the old Halo's though.

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The power weapon indicators drive me crazier with each gameplay that I see. Bad kids shouldn't be rewarded...ever.

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When I sit down to play the beta, I'm not just going to play it as they "intended" it to play, I'm going to try to break the game.  I think this is the kind of mindset we have to go into this.  If these new features break the game, exploit them like crazy and show what needs fixed because if everyone played games as they were intended to be played, no game would be broken.

This. Everyone needs to play like a bunch of online warriors, abuse the hell out of everything and show how it's broken.

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This. Everyone needs to play like a bunch of online warriors, abuse the hell out of everything and show how it's broken.

 

I want 343 to say right now, "We finally listened and after we get some more data on MCC's most played games and some impressions on the Beta we will throw the disgusting looking H4 engine in the trash and make a new one and design a Halo multiplayer that caters to fans of actual Halo."

 

Unless they say that, I doubt any real changes will happen after the Beta, 343 is just saying they will make changes, but in the end they will lie to us AGAIN.

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So essentially what we've got here is a fundamental difference in what makes a good Halo game. I think skill jumping is important, but can coexist with clamber, but you think it's essential and can't. I'm ok with that. We'll see when the beta comes out i guess.

 

By balanced i mean it has a place in the game without breaking the fundamental mechanics of the game competitively, which for me is shooting skill, awareness, and communication. It's useful, but as long as it's better to make the skill jump in the first place, and clamber has downsides, I'm fine with it in the game, I don't think it'll break it.

Exactly, that's what this disagreement is really about. We both place different importance on how large of a role skill jumping should play in Halo.

I would be ok with Clamber if the general amount of skill jumps (meaning the ones that can't be clambered) was still the same, and if the Clamber jumps were added in on top of those. But as we've seen from the gameplays, and as we can guess just by being realistic, this isn't the case. Clamber is close to completely replacing them.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'll still play Halo 5 - I'll probably get a lot of fun out of it in some way, but I would get even more fun out of it if skill jumps were playing as large a role as in previous Halo games. That's my problem.

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So I guess I'm one of the few who thinks the game looks like fun and will at least be an acceptable competitive Halo title.

 

Don't take this personal, it's a long winded post to something that doesn't directly relate you. I just wanted to expand on some things.

 

I'm hoping for it to be a great competitive game, even if not from an e-sports standpoint.. just a game that has a great core and depth to it. A lot of the issues stem from it being a "Halo" title. I could be mistaken, but I believe a high majority of the long time halo fans would rather see the game go back to a more classic route. I feel the same honestly.

 

Then there's the whole, well they have to be "innovative" debate, and that's a whole different can of worms. I understand the importance of keeping a series fresh, but I HARDLY feel this is innovative. What are we looking at here that is so innovative to the Halo series? Is it something that pushes Halo to a more unique feel? Or are we simply merging classic Halo with a modernized version of what the shooter genre has become over the last 5+ years? One could argue what they did with reach was innovative, I wouldn't. Same goes for Halo 4, there were tons of new additions to the series at that point, none of which I felt could be considered innovative for a positive reason.

 

I also believe a big issue is in their wording. Why tell me that Halo 5 Guardians is going back to its roots as an arena shooter, then show me gameplays of a weird Search N Destroy game-mode with a bunch of abilities like sprint, mantleing and that dumb slide shotty charge? The more factors you squeeze into Halo the less room I feel you have to be truly innovative within your own series. This statement will probably piss people off.. but i feel as if I've watched Halo get passed around some gangbang with other games.

 

Games should have room to be innovative, you shouldn't force that innovation into your game. Ground Pound is an ability, Sprint is an ability, Mantling is an ability. As far as I know, you have the option to choose which you want to use.. It's not an option to be innovative. Hey, maybe you can find a jump that can only be completed with a mantle, but how much more impressive is that then all the Jumptacular videos?

 

It wouldn't be right if I wrote this much without throwing my Halo CE elitism around :P However, look how innovative that game was at the time? Guess what? I wouldn't say it's exactly innovative today, but I've played for YEARS on end and still find new strategies or really ways I can become more effective. I know you play Larry, and I know I'm preaching to the choir, so I won't go over all the areas of Halo CE that promote a level of gameplay where the player needs to be innovative, not the developer. In fact, I think that one sentence could sum up my thoughts if I wasn't the kid who wrote a novel for every post.

 

I think I could enjoy Halo 5 Guardians. I think much like the oldschool Shadowrun fans (Not FPS, the tabletop dungeons and dragons game or the genesis game) they can enjoy the game but their view is tainted because it was a Shadowrun title. If this was a random game that wasn't Halo, I think the majority would be excited for a game like this.

 

 

@@Infinity I still don't believe Ground Pound will be a great skill inducing ability. You provided me with one video that showed someone missing and getting punished which was great. However in the other video you provided I wasn't convinced that missing would be frequent. It looked as if someone was slightly off and still rewarded for it. However, Wiiiiizzzard (spelling is off) and I had a nice PM discussion trying to balance out sprint. I used my other video, and video game as an example, I'm not sure how much you read into that though. I think it should have a bigger risk and reward than what it currently does.

 

I would have to think more how to balance it, but I would like to see the ability take out at LEAST 1/2 of your shield to use, maybe 3/4ths The skill has a cool down ability, and landing directly onto a player model is an instant kill, and allows you to move instantly after dying. It You still have half of your shield or so to get away. However, if you miss you still have a bit of a shock radius where you can still effect players. I'm not sure about if the blast radius of the slam should infact damage or push players like in the video I provided, but i think it would be interesting to put a stun or slow effect on those caught. This could create some additional risk/reward situations in which a single individual has enough power to effect another team. The specific scenario I could picture is that your team is running the flag carbine side on Midship. You're front P2 checking for them getting lucky spawns on your flag guy at carbine. Instead, your team calls out P1 spawns coming to the base. Instead of getting the single kill on a player, you can try to ground pound in a specific area in-between 2/3 players and sorta sacrifice yourself to create a "slow/stun" effect for those rushing your flag about to cut off the carrier.

 

Is this the most idea situation? Probably not.. but there is no reason we should be settling for Armor Abilities V2 with minimal risk/reward scenarios in a game that was advertised to go back to it's Arena roots.

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Exactly, that's what this disagreement is really about. We both place different importance on how large of a role skill jumping should play in Halo.

I would be ok with Clamber if the general amount of skill jumps (meaning the ones that can't be clambered) was still the same, and if the Clamber jumps were added in on top of those. But as we've seen from the gameplays, and as we can guess just by being realistic, this isn't the case. Clamber is close to completely replacing them.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'll still play Halo 5 - I'll probably get a lot of fun out of it in some way, but I would get even more fun out of it if skill jumps were playing as large a role as in previous Halo games. That's my problem.

What if it ends up working out that you can forge a spot on a map where you need to execute a skill jump in order to be able to clamber it

 

This sounds like something they would implement in whatever their lockout clone is on a jump from mid to s3

 

At that point what's the difference?

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I watched the gameplay. I see greenskull just sprinting away, thrusting away from danger, clambering like some monkey and did he just cancel his ground pound?

 

Sprint can still be an escape mechanic regardless of whether your shields even recharge, thrusting can also allow you to escape dangerous situations and it really just look messy with the player just thrusting around and clamber just replaces jumping altogether. Finally did he just cancel his damn ground pound??? Like wtf???

 

The gameplay honestly didn't look fun for me, it made me feel more skeptical of halo 5 instead. I really feel like these spartan abilities just have to go, they make the game look messy, too fast, too gimmicky and just simply not fun. There's still the beta, I know, but if 343 wants to make the game LOOK competitive and fun to watch, I just don't know what to say

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I watched the gameplay. I see greenskull just sprinting away, thrusting away from danger, clambering like some monkey and did he just cancel his ground pound?

 

Sprint can still be an escape mechanic regardless of whether your shields even recharge, thrusting can also allow you to escape dangerous situations and it really just look messy with the player just thrusting around and clamber just replaces jumping altogether. Finally did he just cancel his damn ground pound??? Like wtf???

 

The gameplay honestly didn't look fun for me, it made me feel more skeptical of halo 5 instead. I really feel like these spartan abilities just have to go, they make the game look messy, too fast, too gimmicky and just simply not fun. There's still the beta, I know, but if 343 wants to make the game LOOK competitive and fun to watch, I just don't know what to say

 

I saw the ground pound cancel too, I wonder how long you've to hold down melee for and if we won't be plagued with glitches like accidental ground pound when trying to do an air assassination or beatdown/vice versa. Also looking at the amount of time you can hold the ground pound start up animation in the air, it looks like you'd have time to pop on the stabilizers and go back into a ground pound animation again. Broke yer game by thinkin bout it 343. remove sprint or die.  

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If Sprint can't be removed then we need too push for players too be taken out of Sprint when shot in combination with shields not recharging while Sprinting since it doesn't really mean anything given Sprint is a lot faster in this game and Sprint is unlimited in this game as well.

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I watched the gameplay. I see greenskull just sprinting away, thrusting away from danger, clambering like some monkey and did he just cancel his ground pound?

Before you launch, you stabilize in mid-air. You can either ground pound or shoot.

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So I guess I'm one of the few who thinks the game looks like fun and will at least be an acceptable competitive Halo title.

 

I'm excited to play this new, interesting shooter. The more I treat Halo 5 as a new game separate from the Halo franchise I love, the more I find myself enjoying the recent gameplay videos. 

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What if it ends up working out that you can forge a spot on a map where you need to execute a skill jump in order to be able to clamber it

 

This sounds like something they would implement in whatever their lockout clone is on a jump from mid to s3

 

At that point what's the difference?

I don't know how that would work. If you've already made the jump by skill jumping it, then what's left for there to Clamber? I'm probably misunderstanding your suggestion.

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Any idea what size this beta will be? With the amount of updates we will be getting for MCC I might have to buy a larger hard drive.

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The power weapon indicators drive me crazier with each gameplay that I see. Bad kids shouldn't be rewarded...ever.

 

It's not rewarding; if anything it's more punishing because there's no conceivable reason (aside from uneven team sizes or one team being all dead) that anyone can get a free weapon any more.

 

Players at the lower end of the skill spectrum now have to experience what everyone who timed weapons already does. It's a great teaching aid and just happens to be cheese-proof in that weapons on such a system can't be dirtied. At the same time it maximises the effect of power weapons to serve their real purpose of encouraging map movement and conflict in cyclical patterns.

 

As I said earlier, the only people this system is a negative for are those who liked to pubstomp against noobs who don't know timers. Personally I don't really care about those kind of players because their preferred style of play is directly in opposition to the purpose of a good matchmaking system (which it's looking like H5 will have).

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