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Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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So if a divide between casual and competitive worlds prevents bringing more casuals into competitive play then how do you address the fact that casuals want sprint and most/many won't play the game without it? You can't bring casuals into competitive if they won't play the game. Isn't it better to have a divide but have more casuals to pull in? Serious question.

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This game looks like complete shit. Stop trying to convince yourselves otherwise.

Solid, thoughtful, & contributive post. 

 

Just ignore low aim assist, smaller sandbox, fast kill times, equal starts, descope, graphics, and the fact that it's a beta that we can balance/tweak. 

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So if a divide between casual and competitive worlds prevents bringing more casuals into competitive play then how do you address the fact that casuals want sprint and most/many won't play the game without it? You can't bring casuals into competitive if they won't play the game. Isn't it better to have a divide but have more casuals to pull in? Serious question.

The answer is to find a way to balance sprint. Its just that many people believe this is impossible because reach and H4. but I actually think 343 is heading in the right direction at least.

 

Im not saying its 100%okay right now, but fast ttk and the shield mechanic are gonna do more than a lot of people think. It might not be quite enough, but it's a start.

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So if a divide between casual and competitive worlds prevents bringing more casuals into competitive play then how do you address the fact that casuals want sprint and most/many won't play the game without it? You can't bring casuals into competitive if they won't play the game. Isn't it better to have a divide but have more casuals to pull in? Serious question.

 

Why is everyone subscribing to this bullshit? You've literally fallen into 343s trap. Casuals don't want sprint. There have been polls on Halo Waypoint that prove this. And even if those polls were wrong, and even if it's not just a small and petty minority vocalising loud enough to convince you they are the majority, why does that make them right?

 

The only things worth paying attention to are population counters. You cannot explain away a high or low population by any other factor than the quality and playability/replayability of the game itself. All the Halos up until Halo 3 were hugely popular. Halo 2 and 3 dominated XBL for basically their entire run. Reach and 4 flopped hard, and the population count dropped off very quickly, especially in comparison to earlier Halos. The majority of the playerbase is casuals, therefore casuals didn't find Halo Reach or 4 to have the same quality and replayability, or to be worth continuously investing their time in. You can't really argue with those statistics. That's why it's all the more infuriating 343 keeps on keeping on with sprint - nobody, or certainly no majority, is asking for it.

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Solid, thoughtful, & contributive post. 

 

Just ignore low aim assist, smaller sandbox, fast kill times, equal starts, descope, graphics, and the fact that it's a beta that we can balance/tweak. 

Keep telling yourself that. Your feedback means nothing. You're not gonna tweak shit.

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So if a divide between casual and competitive worlds prevents bringing more casuals into competitive play then how do you address the fact that casuals want sprint and most/many won't play the game without it? You can't bring casuals into competitive if they won't play the game. Isn't it better to have a divide but have more casuals to pull in? Serious question.

 

I'm sure you have personal casual friends who play/use to play halo.  For the ones who quit, ask them straight up why they did.  From my personal exp, every single person said it was because of sprint/amour abilities.  I honestly don't get people's mindset when it comes to causal players.  Anytime ANYONE (or 99%) of people on this forum hear the word "casual" they automatically associate them with people who love broken game mechanics. WHY?!?!  The 90% of the people who love sprint are the people who are going to leave the game in 3 weeks, regardless of how good the game is, so why cater to them?   The old school players (competitive and casual) all know what makes halo, so I hate to see people associate "casual halo player" with "plain old casual"

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Keep telling yourself that. Your feedback means nothing. You're not gonna tweak shit.

If they put a beta out, almost a year in advance, and don't change anything, it would only piss people off. Sure, they'll be compromises, but we will be listened to. Also, one of the leakers for MCC & H5 has posted that MS/343 is taking this beta seriously...

 

also, should I remind you again of the Halo 4 Turbo update? Where they listened to the community (for some things)?

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Keep telling yourself that. Your feedback means nothing. You're not gonna tweak shit.

 

If you don't actually put forth the effort to play the Beta? Hmm... Then what is the point of a Beta?

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I'm sure you have personal casual friends who play/use to play halo.  For the ones who quit, ask them straight up why they did.  From my personal exp, every single person said it was because of sprint/amour abilities.  I honestly don't get people's mindset when it comes to causal players.  Anytime ANYONE (or 99%) of people on this forum hear the word "casual" they automatically associate them with people who love broken game mechanics. WHY?!?!  The 90% of the people who love sprint are the people who are going to leave the game in 3 weeks, regardless of how good the game is, so why cater to them?   The old school players (competitive and casual) all know what makes halo, so I hate to see people associate "casual halo player" with "plain old casual"

I quit Halo about a year into Reach, not because of sprint, not because of AAs, i quit because of the community. The negativity of the community at that time was so unbearable that i literally could not convince myself it was worth playing anymore. 

 

It's not that bad anymore, but there is still a decent chunk of negative in this community that will not accept change, will not give constructive feedback, and are not about what our game really needs to be big  again. We need new blood. we need new, passionate players to fall in love with halo over other games. if sprint has to be in the game to make that happen, which may or may not be the case, i'm fine with it as long as 343 is willing to balance it this time around. The only thing all this preemptive hate is gonna do is further hurt the community and the game's image to the point that H5 will fail before it's even out. 

 

I have faith. I may eat my words when H5 comes out, but until then im trusting 343 to listen to the pros and the constructive suggestions from the community to make the best game they can. If it fails, be negative then.

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Fine, if you never want to play any new games... 

 

I don't understand your logic. You're criticising me for sticking to what I like? Halo is a hobby to me, so much so I set it aside from just the larger category of 'gaming', because no other game comes close to entertaining me consistently and always being a fun and engaging activity to fall back on.

 

So no, I don't care about playing new games if they don't interest me. The point of enjoying games isn't to play whatever's newest just because everyone else might be.

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I quit Halo about a year into Reach, not because of sprint, not because of AAs, i quit because of the community. The negativity of the community at that time was so unbearable that i literally could not convince myself it was worth playing anymore. 

 

It's not that bad anymore, but there is still a decent chunk of negative in this community that will not accept change, will not give constructive feedback, and are not about what our game really needs to be big  again. We need new blood. we need new, passionate players to fall in love with halo over other games. if sprint has to be in the game to make that happen, which may or may not be the case, i'm fine with it as long as 343 is willing to balance it this time around. The only thing all this preemptive hate is gonna do is further hurt the community and the game's image to the point that H5 will fail before it's even out. 

 

I have faith. I may eat my words when H5 comes out, but until then im trusting 343 to listen to the pros and the constructive suggestions from the community to make the best game they can. If it fails, be negative then.

 

I agree with that the community can be negative at times but I have to respectively disagree with the way of gaining new players.  You say that to gain new players, we have use sprint but again I ask why do you think this?  We have a classic example of a game (h4) that tried to please the new comers with sprint, while slapping the name halo on it to please old school people and look how that turned out.  It's a classic case of trying to appeal to everyone and pleasing no one.

 

Look, not everyone is going to like the style of halo, like I don't like the style of COD.  You don't see Infinity or Activation trying to appeal to me.  Why?  Because they created a game that they wanted and invite anyone else to play who also like it and if someone doesn't like it, sorry just play another game.  So I don't understand why we can't have the same mentality.  We like halo for what it is, and most of us are willing to let the game change in some ways (I personally look forward to thruster) AS LONG AS it adds to the core of the game and sprint is mechanically not apart of halo.  

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I agree with that the community can be negative at times but I have to respectively disagree with the way of gaining new players.  You say that to gain new players, we have use sprint but again I ask why do you think this?  We have a classic example of a game (h4) that tried to please the new comers with sprint, while slapping the name halo on it to please old school people and look how that turned out.  It's a classic case of trying to appeal to everyone and pleasing no one.

 

Look, not everyone is going to like the style of halo, like I don't like the style of COD.  You don't see Infinity or Activation trying to appeal to me.  Why?  Because they created a game that they wanted and invite anyone else to play who also like it and if someone doesn't like it, sorry just play another game.  So I don't understand why we can't have the same mentality.  We like halo for what it is, and most of us are willing to let the game change in some ways (I personally look forward to thruster) AS LONG AS it adds to the core of the game and sprint is mechanically not apart of halo.  

I said the sprint thing may or may not be true, but the thing is, sprint is not a new mechanic. it's already a part of Halo, like it or not. Some people won't be satisfied till it's gone, but there's an equal number that wouldn't like playing without it (they do exist, they just aren't as vocal.) It's not going away. I'm indifferent on sprint if they can balance it this time around. they're heading in the right direction is all I'm saying.

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Catering to casuals never works because casuals are casuals. So when they continue to cater to casuals and games continue to fail, I hope they understand why. You shouldn't direct a game towards a fleeting demographic defined by its fleetingness. 

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I said the sprint thing may or may not be true, but the thing is, sprint is not a new mechanic. it's already a part of Halo, like it or not. Some people won't be satisfied till it's gone, but there's an equal number that wouldn't like playing without it (they do exist, they just aren't as vocal.) It's not going away. I'm indifferent on sprint if they can balance it this time around. they're heading in the right direction is all I'm saying.

I don't plan on sprint going away, it is quite obvious the game is revolved around it considering half the spartan abilities can only be activated when you are in some form of sprint.  But once again I have to point to h4 and even reach player numbers because numbers don't lie.  Reach was only able to hold around 100k after a year of release, which isn't bad but it's not "halo" numbers and this was with the beginning of the sprint mechanic/armor abilities.  Then comes along h4, where the game makes sprint a standard and after around 2 years the population holds what, 10-15k?  You don't find that to be a direct correlation?  You might debate that halo had other games to compete with like COD and others so that's why the numbers went down.  Then why I ask was halo 3 the most popular game in the franchise population wise, even at the end of its life?  A game that had no sprint mechanics and had to fight with 2-3 cod titles along with gears and such? 

 

Also yes there are people who do like sprint in halo but are you really going to alienate 85% of your fanbase for the people that do like it?  Again looking at the numbers

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I don't plan on sprint going away, it is quite obvious the game is revolved around it considering half the spartan abilities can only be activated when you are in some form of sprint.  But once again I have to point to h4 and even reach player numbers because numbers don't lie.  Reach was only able to hold around 100k after a year of release, which isn't bad but it's not "halo" numbers and this was with the beginning of the sprint mechanic/armor abilities.  Then comes along h4, where the game makes sprint a standard and after around 2 years the population holds what, 10-15k?  You don't find that to be a direct correlation?  You might debate that halo had other games to compete with like COD and others so that's why the numbers went down.  Then why I ask was halo 3 the most popular game in the franchise population wise, even at the end of its life?  A game that had no sprint mechanics and had to fight with 2-3 cod titles along with gears and such? 

 

Also yes there are people who do like sprint in halo but are you really going to alienate 85% of your fanbase for the people that do like it?  Again looking at the numbers

There are other factors at play than sprint. Bad maps, bloom, flinch, slow ttk, etc. Hell, even the negative view of the community itself was a huge factor. no one wants to play a game when people they get matched with talk about how shitty the game is.

 

Even factors outside halo caused it, CoD becomes popular and has a competitive scene, a lot of people went to PC games like LoL, there's too many factors at play to just assume that it's sprint that's the problem, just because the voice that says it is is the loudest one you hear in the community. People bringing up the waypoint forums don't take into account that people that go to the forums to complain or vote in polls like that aren't the ones that are happy with the game. Happy people don't go to forums to argue against taking out sprint. 

 

I'm sure 343 has done plenty of research, if the vocal community has been against sprint for so long, they wouldn't just bring it back without a reason.  

 

CoD wasn't huge when H3 was out. it got big at the end and into Reach. There was no alternative to halo that was as big as halo at the time.

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I don't understand your logic. You're criticising me for sticking to what I like? Halo is a hobby to me, so much so I set it aside from just the larger category of 'gaming', because no other game comes close to entertaining me consistently and always being a fun and engaging activity to fall back on.

 

So no, I don't care about playing new games if they don't interest me. The point of enjoying games isn't to play whatever's newest just because everyone else might be.

Not really criticizing you. Just pointing out that every Halo fan has a role in how good H5 can be (which will continue with 6 & 7, etc.). Eventually MCC will have a low population and/or get boring after a while. Then when you want to get a new game, you'll want the next Halo, by which time it'll be hard to change the 343 Halo direction for the better. We as a community have already had a huge role in shaping H5, from all our feedback regarding H4. Have they taken it all? No, but they've taken most of it... we can still make it better.

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The thing that can grow Halo is the same thing that made it grow in the first place - make it fun to play. Then people will play it and have fun and get their friends playing.

 

No amount of gimmicks, competitive support or marketing can do as much as just making it fun.

 

Sprint might seem fun but it isn't fun - because it breaks the game play.

 

You get it, you really get it!! <3

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The thing that can grow Halo is the same thing that made it grow in the first place - make it fun to play. Then people will play it and have fun and get their friends playing.

 

No amount of gimmicks, competitive support or marketing can do as much as just making it fun.

 

Sprint might seem fun but it isn't fun - because it breaks the game play.

It's all about the placebo effect bruh  :kappa:

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Which would you rather have? Game like Halo 4 w/ sprint and other bullshit, or game w/ sprint but better overall gameplay? That's what the beta's for. 

 

Edit: And what game are you going to play that doesn't have sprint? H5 is going to be a good game w/sprint. Not a true Halo game, but a good game nonetheless - would you consider COD or Titanfall better than H5?

CSGO, which btw is having lots of success. 

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Not really criticizing you. Just pointing out that every Halo fan has a role in how good H5 can be (which will continue with 6 & 7, etc.). Eventually MCC will have a low population and/or get boring after a while. Then when you want to get a new game, you'll want the next Halo, by which time it'll be hard to change the 343 Halo direction for the better. We as a community have already had a huge role in shaping H5, from all our feedback regarding H4. Have they taken it all? No, but they've taken most of it... we can still make it better.

I've been consistently playing Halo 3 since it came out, even after the population dropped to a few thousand. I would still find enough games to make it fun.

 

Halo MCC will have a better population than that for many years to come. That's good enough for me.

 

Yes, I will play the Halo 5 beta, and yes, I will share my feedback as sensibly and calmly as I can, but if Halo 5 blows, Halo 5 blows. You can't really blame those of us who are cynical for being that way at this point, after every cock-up 343 has orchestrated. I want to believe, but I can't. I'm just glad I have the MCC as a solid backup.

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CSGO, which btw is having lots of success. 

But releasing the knife out is basically sprint? or am I wrong?

 

EDIT : Nevermind got the answer myself,,, In CS when someone gets shot character movement slows down so you can't do a Halo 4 and suddenly use the boost mechanic (knife in this game) to greatly increase your chances of getting away with a push of a button...

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But releasing the knife out is basically sprint? or am I wrong?

Was that a serious question? I saw Gandhi make a similar comparison on one of his videos, and it's not even close to the same thing. Having a knife out does increase your speed, but the difference in speed is nowhere even close to as significant, and it is not even close to comparable.

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