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Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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I even agree with you that this game looks kinda fun, but it's not Halo but just another generic shooter with ADS and sprint.

But its not ADS, it still work as it always has, hip-fire is accurate, no movement limitation (hover is stupid, no arguing that), descope. Yes, it clutters the screen.

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But its not ADS, it still work as it always has, hip-fire is accurate, no movement limitation (hover is stupid, no arguing that), descope. Yes, it clutters the screen.

Watch the Rooster Teeth gameplay, they state that the ADS feels like it's more accurate. And after watching a few videos it seems that's the case - the recticle becomes smaller and the spread is not so big as it is when you fire your weapon from the hip.  

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Watch the Rooster Teeth gameplay, they state that the ADS feels like it's more accurate. And after watching a few videos it seems that's the case - the recticle becomes smaller and the spread is not so big as it is when you fire your weapon from the hip.  

 

The roosterteeth people didn't notice the new gamemode had increase damage, and Gus if fucking awful, and they talked about the smg and AR, there was like 2 secs of other weapons

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They strayed way too far away from Halo IMO. That many new additions and it once again, loses even more identity. Is this really Halo any more?

 

Note: I'm not bashing the whole game, I would be content with maybe the thruster and the smart scope, but the rest is just cheese IMO.

 

I'm all for change and innovation but they went overboard. 

 

 

I'll play a game or two on the 29th but I definitely see myself sticking with MCC.

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Yeah, there's been a long CoD thruster and exoskeleton tradition of ONE FUCKING WEEK. This is from Titanfall not CoD.

sliding from Battlefield, clamber from cod 

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Welp, here's my take on the reveal & gameplay that they showed:

 


The Good

 

Ranks: hopefully brought over from Menke's H2/H2A formula, and available at launch for all playlists (aside from any "Social" playlists, should those exist).

 

De-scope: although the scope is cosmetically very, very similar to ADS from most modern shooters (Call of Duty, Titanfall, Destiny, et cetera), it looks as though it functions the same way as scoping-in always has in Halo games: click the right-stick (in default stick control layout) to "zoom in / aim-down-sights", and then get knocked-out of scope if shot at / hit, all while being able to move at standard speeds. While I find the visual obstructions of the "scopes" to be less than desirable (e.g. the bezel of the DMR sight is thick and obstructs view a bit too much for my liking), I don't think it's something that I wouldn't be able to get use to; maybe even prefer. I know you can still hip-shoot with the same accuracy as hip-firing always had in Halo games, and that movement speed is not compromised when scoped-in / aiming down sights, however I would like to know if aiming speeds & acceleration is lowered when scoped-in / aiming down sights the same way it is for Call of Duty, for example. If so, that's a major issue.

 

Static power weapon timers: this is amazing. I really didn't expect this at all, and fully expected a Halo 3 or Halo 2 type of system. But it seems to be more akin to Halo: CE on the original XBOX, which is very, very satisfying. And honestly, the notification / countdown that describes when said power weapon(s) is/are up is fantastic. I'm sure it can be toggled, too, which I don't see as being necessary for competitive play, but it being an option is definitely not a bad thing by any mean. This will make controlling a map much more consistent.

 

Graphics: wow. That pretty much sums it up. The lighting, the textures, the resolution; all of it looks absolutely fantastic. Even the "randomly generated" Tron-like map looked pretty sweet. But the Midship-inspired map really looks phenomenal, despite the fact that it is obviously considerably larger than Midship or even Heretic, for obvious reasons. But from a purely aesthetic standpoint, the game looks absolutely gorgeous and definitely still looks like Halo. The colours of the Spartans also looks more "classic" to my eye, and I'm glad to see not 1, but at least 2 Covenant-themed maps that both look amazing (the second being the brighter, outside / open roof map with the overgrowth of foliage that covers what looks very similar to a Covenant area; an abandoned Covenant structure maybe?).

 

Maps: the ones we saw (looked like 4 total to me: "Midship", abandoned / foliage-covered Covenant structure, the "Skyline" look-a-like, and the randomly generated Tron-Forge looking map) all looked great, finally had decently named / sectioned call-outs above the radar, had a very competitive arena-stye layout to them (most of them anyway; "Skyline 2.0" was questionable due to limited look at it), had decent routes and clearly distinguishable areas to help avoid confusion off-spawn, et cetera. They still look larger than typical small 4v4 arena-style maps have in the past, but again... that's obviously due to the other "features" of the game.

 

Thruster: honestly doesn't look that bad! I know it's "not Halo", but I'll get to that later. It obviously can't be spammed non-stop, and it doesn't launch you across the map vis a vis "Evade" from Halo: Reach. It looks like something that will help you get behind a wall when you're speak-shotting and happen to miss a shot or two and need to hide, but doesn't look like it will be an easy and permanent solution; it won't get you out of being naded if someone predicts your thuster to get behind the wall you're peak-shotting from, for example. I'm not 100% sold on it yet, as I haven't played it and can't really tell if it needs to be fine-tuned one way or the other, but it certainly doesn't look like it will completely break gameplay.

 

Clamber: it's not really "good" per se, but it doesn't look terrible either. It's fast, seemingly easy, and doesn't really allow you to make every jump guaranteed if you didn't time your jump properly; it honestly just looks like a middle-ground solution to having really, really high & floaty jumps like Halo 2, and kind of looks like it would help with getting to a short ledge quicker and more accurately. For example: when Pistola used it to get to "Blue Window" in the exhibition match: with a regular, really high & floaty jump, you'd have to wait until you landed from the jump to be able to strafe, which leaves you exposed for much longer than you'd need to, because the jump isn't that high and you can't really accurately control the force at which you jump (e.g. lightly tap the jump button to make a mid-hight jump to a short platform). If they could speed it up just a bit more, I think it would be perfect. But since I haven't played it yet, I can't accurately tell how much or little (if at all) it should be tweaked.

 

Kill-times: they seem to be fairly quick, which is something we haven't really seen in recent Halo titles (going back as far as Halo 3 and even Halo 2, to a degree). Engagements seem to be fairly quick yet still involved a noticeable skill gap. In other words, it's quick but not Call of Duty "one shot and your dead" or "whoever sees the other person first is almost guaranteed to win the engagement" quick. And the "Thruster" abilities seemed to add a degree of skill & almost "trick-killing" to some of the engagements. Example: when Pistola thrustered (guess that's a word now?) backward to avoid the increase in speed from his opponent's use of the Prophets' Bane, so as to land the final headshot. Some might see this as a cheap tactic to get out of a losing battle, but I see it as a way of making engagements more interesting, and would likely make for some pretty incredible highlight-reel moments.

 

Equal starts / no loadouts or AAs: we all know this is great. Granted, yes there are "Spartan Abilities" now but honestly they're all just an off-shoot of one ability: the thruster pack. The "Slide" ability I don't see becoming too popular or widely used, as you need to be sprinting for a while to even attempt it, and given that your shields don't recharge whilst sprinting, I can't see too many people using it frequently. Not only that, but it takes a while to get up to "terminal velocity" (a term they use incorrectly by the way) so it's not like you can just slide around the entire map every half-second. In any case: no loadouts is a great thing, not spawning with camo or an ability to see through walls or full-on jetpack is even better.

No kill-streaks or personal ordinance: also pretty obviously a great thing. No more going into an engagement wondering, "Well, is MisterChiefGamer17563 going to have a SAW for no reason and shit down my throat before I can even get 3 full BR shots off?", which is a nice change.

 

Being able to shoot instantly coming out of sprint: I saw this several times, and it looks like there is absolutely no delay going from being in-sprint to shooting (from the hip, anyway). While I still don't like sprint being in the game as a whole, the no-shields-whilst-sprinting thing, as well as being able to shoot instantly after sprinting are both very big improvements that make it less cumbersome of a mechanic to use at the very least. It, however, doesn't make up for its affect on map design, which I'll get into shortly.

 

Sounds: the sounds are incredible. Miles apart from Halo 4 for sure, and even that of Halo 2: Anniversary. The guns actually sound like guns and not cheap, gimmicky toy versions of themselves. Also, the announcer, while still a bit too over-the-top, has been toned down slightly, and could likely be taken down a peg or two more if appropriate feedback is given to that end.

 

 

 

The Bad

 

ADS-aesthetic scoping-in: I realize scoping still operates fundamentally the same way as it always has, but the look of the "scope" now seems very distracting.The animation speed could still be kicked-up a bit faster in my opinion, but the main thing I don't like is that my view both around the "scope" and below it (where your gun is) is now blocked. If I'm top-mid on "Midship", and I'm scoping-in on someone top-blue, I can't tell if someone is directly below at bottom-blue because my gun is in the way of my view. That's a huge pitfall for me; anything that obstructs my visibility, and thus my map awareness, is a pretty big issue.

 

Sprint: come on 343, you acknowledge that sprint is a broken mechanic for Halo that simply doesn't work. It's not just that it's a "get out of jail free" tactic; that's only half the problem. The main problem is that it severely affects map design. Admittedly, the use of sprint before was something that had to be done to move about the map efficiently, but broke the flow of combat due to the delay coming out of sprinting (e.g. having to wait a full second or more in order to shoot someone you see whilst sprinting), which doesn't seem to be an issue anymore. So yes, they "sort of" fixed that issue, as well as "sort of" fixed the fact that people spam it to get out of their poor positioning choices or way too easily got out of a losing battle without even having to think about anything other than "press this button" (which "Thrusting" seems to take the place of, although admittedly it has a lot more versatility to it and isn't always 100% effective depending on how you use it). But still... sprinting in and of itself adds no value to gameplay, and therefore is absolutely not needed.

 

No on-map equipment shown: granted, this isn't a really "bad" thing per se, but I was hoping things like trip-mine, or grav-lift, or even regen would make a return as 1-time use, on-map power-ups. I also did not see any OS or Camo, but being that we only really saw 1 full game on a map that is supposed to be inspired by Midship (which didn't have either of those), I can't really make a judgement call on this one 100% yet. However, there had better be at least OS and Camo. I wouldn't even really mind something like Damage Boost if it were nerfed a bit; I could see it being used on some maps in place of OS, to allow for more offensive-based flag running rather than defensive. As long as it didn't turn the BR, for example, into a guaranteed 3-shot-kill-regardless-of-where-you-aim kind of thing (cough:Halo4:cough).

 

 

 

The Ugly

 

Ground-pound: absolutely ridiculous. Not because it's OP (it's really not; you only get an instant kill if you get a direct hit, apparently, so no splash-damage) or because it can be spammed (obviously not, due to that insanely long charge-up period). But just because it's a non-shooting mechanic that is stuck in limbo between mid and short range. Melee works because it's a CQB compliment. This thing is just... nuts. But if it's capable of being toggled, I really only see this as being the absolute must turn-off feature for competitive play.

 

 

 

With all that being said: I know it's not "traditional Halo", I really do, but I'm still excited to try it. I never thought we were going to get a traditional Halo game; anyone who did was absolutely delusional. It's a game that is coming out in 2015, people... you really think they're going to release a re-skinned version of CE with new maps and weapons? Are you kidding? Especially after now that they have released "traditional Halo" in MCC? What would be the point of that? None.

 

I won't say I wasn't a bit let down initially, because I was. In some respects, I still am. It's my nostalgia for a time when I was just finishing high school and was playing CE, and longing for that period again with the hopes that the new Halo game would provide it. But that just isn't going to happen. We have MCC now, which can scratch that itch in a good, fun way. And if you're not open to new things, you don't have to be: play MCC until your fingers bleed! But they have to do something to make Halo relevant again, and releasing MCC and then making a newly re-skinned version of one of the games in that collection is not going to accomplish that. Like it or not, the die-hard Halo: CE and Halo 2 crowd are not the majority anymore, and while I agree Halo 4 tried to "Call of Duty"-up the Halo franchise and failed, that doesn't mean that Halo's only chance to stay alive is to revert completely back to 2001 schematics.

I for one am happy to try the beta out, give my feedback along with everyone else, see what they do with that feedback (if anything), and then decide whether or not I am going to support the game. It looks like it has potential to be a fun game. Again: not a fun, "classic Halo" game, but potentially fun nonetheless. It's now up to us to guide them on how to make it as fun as it can possibly be, and then judge for ourselves if it hit the mark or not once the full game is released.



Thanks for reading :)

(...assuming you were bored and had a bit of time lol)

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What's bad about announcer calling when power weapons would be up? Weapons are static anyways

 

Anyone complaining about the announcer telling us when power weapons will be up is a hypocrite: what competitive CE player doesn't use a third-party timer anyway?

 

Just because they built it into the game, now it's suddenly not a good idea? Bananas. I think that's one of the smarter additions they've put in.

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The community clearly said they don't want sprint in Halo Reach, 343 made it possible to play without sprint, but they put it in in Halo 4 again.

Halo 4 sucked ass, and they still will not listen to us.

You could always remove sprint in Reach, actually.
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Spartan Abilities (Usually discussed as AA's)

 

I was far from impressed at first by these; when we first sat down having no information about the game and i had to select a loadout ability i was like 'Oh god not again' but i was pleasantly surprised by them all.

 

Even though shoulder charge and ground pound make me feel like i'm playing as a Titan from Destiny they are incredibly balanced once again; if you miss the shoulder charge any remotely skilled player will have killed you.

 

The ground pound was hit and miss for me; i was playing a bunch of lower skilled players (Journalists basically) so when i tried the ground pound i was getting easily 10 kills in a 50 kill team slayer game with it; BUT when the tables turned and other people tried to use it against a more aware player they were basically swatted out of the air 

 

Weapon Changes

 

I played largely with the BR and Magnum as primary's and had a few killed with the new energy sword and sniper and everything just felt correct; the game does have increased auto aim from Halo 3 for example but not too much for again lower skilled players.

 

One thing people keep bringing up is the weapon design and single shot from the BR and the below paragraph should summarize why i believe this is a good thing.

 

 

Doesn't sound like you actually played Halo 5, for a variety of reasons.

 

1) There are no loadouts. Everybody has all the spartan abilities.

2) There is very little autoaim according to pros who have played.

3) BR is still burst fire. 

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Anyone complaining about the announcer telling us when power weapons will be up is a hypocrite: what competitive CE player doesn't use a third-party timer anyway?

 

Just because they built it into the game, now it's suddenly not a good idea? Bananas. I think that's one of the smarter additions they've put in.

I love the built in talking timer! Everyone would use a timer anyways, just like in Halo CE, and the skill is how you go about controlling the power-ups/weapons, not knowing when they come up.

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Anyone feel like ledge grab is the most pointless out of all the additions?  I seemed to me as if they made every ledge slightly higher just to make you ledge grab it...

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So, I don't know if this has been mentioned already but in addition to the ranking info in the front page article Josh Holmes also confirmed that Pro tier will be limited to the top 200 players worldwide.

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So, I don't know if this has been mentioned already but in addition tot he ranking info in the front page article Josh Holmes also confirmed that Pro tier will be limited to the top 200 players worldwide.

If the game itself works out... Imagine?

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Anyone feel like ledge grab is the most pointless out of all the additions?  I seemed to me as if they made every ledge slightly higher just to make you ledge grab it...

The only good reason I can think of for it is to make maps taller and make higher points (like Midship top mid) into stronger power positions. That effect would be complemented even further by ground pound - assuming ground pound itself is balanced.

 

If, and only if, it does indeed make power positions more pronounced, then it would be worth sacrificing the skill jumps. The nice responsive feel of the mechanic would be an added bonus.

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What's bad about announcer calling when power weapons would be up? Weapons are static anyways

The bad part is having the announcer say "the enemy has the sniper"
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My favorite part of all of this is that they pumped out H2A and want everyone to "relive the saga" with all the campaigns and whatnot. Well, if H2A is your first Halo and Halo 5 is your second, my god the difference is going to be night and day. I think Halo needs to evolve to continue to grow, BUT I don't think it's with sprint. That's arguably the worst thing that has ever been put into Halo. Why? Because us as fans - that's not what the "lore" is. Master Chief didn't need to sprint in CE, or H2, or H3. Now look at this, once Halo 5 comes out we will have just as many games with sprint as without. It's a complete joke.

 

Everything that we were taught about Halo was thrown out the window. The no hitmarkers, no sprint, no AA, no bloom, none of that. Then - with one game - they took all of those sacred things that we had (well didn't have, but you get my point) and crushed them up, changing Halo forever.

 

Bungie screwed Halo. There's no way they can EVER go back to no sprint. All those 14, 15, 16 year old kids that have only played Reach or Halo 4, that's what THEY expect to see now. Halo is almost a failure because of its own success. You've gotta change something to keep a game fresh like CoD, but they CAN do it because they aren't linked to one "universe" like Halo. Take AW, awesome game, but Black Ops 3 will probably be nothing like it and CoD can get away with it. Halo, its all about that one game and if you split up the community too much, people lose interest and start to fall further and further away.

 

I will say this, Halo has a little bit of life from the amount of hype MCC has brought. But how many times do you put your hand on the stove and get burned before you realize what you're doing. That's what I feel like with 343 and it sucks. I've been burned too many times to continue and give false hope and then wait three years for a new Halo and hope it's good. Shit, none of us are getting younger.

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So, I don't know if this has been mentioned already but in addition to the ranking info in the front page article Josh Holmes also confirmed that Pro tier will be limited to the top 200 players worldwide.

:D This makes me happy. All hail our true god Menke.

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Gonna repost this. Then I won't do it again.

 

Halo 5, as it looks now, is a pot of beef stew with rotten vegetables. That implies that I can see potential, but there needs to be major changes to the gameplay. What I am going to put below will probably have most of you agreeing with it. The others may stick to what they want.

 

Before reading the below, let this be known; This is my honest opinion on what should change and what should stay.

 

Sprint. This right here has been the greatest hassle to Halo's movement decisions, and should be removed by the full release. Even if it is nerfed again in this iteration of H5, it won't make the game truly shine if it stays. Instead, the movement should boost to 40% of the base movement we are familiar with in H1 and H2. This, along with a very responsive strafe, and the Thruster, would make this game damn good movement wise. Speaking of Thruster...

 

Thruster. One of the most interesting things you can do in a fight on H4 was boost to any direction, catching your enemy off guard. I like that it is back in H5, but sprint alongside it makes it less of a good tool. With faster movement, it can be more of a juking ability. The boost itself will probably be 20% less than the movement, but will decrease auto aim on yourself when performed. Also, using it in the air can open a window to crazy out-play scenarios.

 

Slide. Not as prevalent as I thought compared to the other things shown. Shouldn't exist.

 

Slam. I think instead of relying on Sprint to make this work, I think it should be what happens if you Thrust directly forward and press the melee button at the same time. It should change to a first person view and be easy to spot and dodge. If it connects, the enemy's shields and half their health is removed, along with a single second stun. However, the connect also means the player has a cool-down animation slightly longer than the enemy stun, to give smarter players a chance to fight back.

 

Clamber. It is an addition that ruins the skill of tactical jumping, along with spring jumping. I would suggest removing it, and making it instead a different Spartan Ability, Spring. This is activated when you crouch, jump, and press the Thrust button at the same time. The boost of the jump would be a 40% increase, but will make your Thruster cool down after 4 seconds. You reach higher ground at the cost of not using it again immediately.

 

Smart Scope. As it is now, it could use many changes. I would suggest a Plus/Minus system for each weapon when using Smart Scope, similar to how weapons functioned in H1 when having camo or the ability to stun. Examples would be BR having double the RRR, but you can't see the bottom area of the screen, or AR having a warning light for oncoming enemies but fires slower, etc. Things like that to increase the meta for each individual weapon.

 

Smash. Very impressed with how it works, but there could definitely be changes. One; instead of have to press the crouch button, I would suggest double tapping the Melee button and then float in the air for 2 seconds searching for a spot to land. Two; it should not kill a target when you land, rather it should copy the same idea for the Slam ability. These changes allow the ability to Ghandi Hop to still exist, and also give a higher risk to the reward.

 

Additional Changes I would like made.

 

-Auditory hitmarker along with the visual isn't good. Get rid of that.

-Power Weapon spawns should at the very least be 2 minute intervals.

-Spartans shouldn't be talking constantly. Should only give out callouts every thirty seconds, and only that when the player has no Mic.

-Decrease the amount of medals.

-Decrease the amount of new announcements.

-Remove Hovering while using Smart Scope.

 

So there you have it. In my opinion, this is what I think should happen. Then H5 can be a really fun game.

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Slam. I think instead of relying on Sprint to make this work, I think it should be what happens if you Thrust directly forward and press the melee button at the same time. It should change to a first person view and be easy to spot and dodge. If it connects, the enemy's shields and half their health is removed, along with a single second stun. However, the connect also means the player has a cool-down animation slightly longer than the enemy stun, to give smarter players a chance to fight back.

 My only concern with this is Overshield and team shooting. I get being rewarded with the power objective you received, but combining that with Slam and good team shooting seems a bit too strong.

 

Either way, that's just speculation and my opinion. I am not trying to bash your idea in any way.

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The funny thing is that sprint which was in H4 is the worst of all the spartan abilities.  I think I could deal with everything else if sprint was gone, really it's the biggest issue I see.  Now that it's nerfed theres less incentive to use it, as a result the maps are all stretched out and massive for no reason.  Also Midship looks like I just got out of a chlorine filled swimming pool.

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Yea, sprint affects everything. Including the usefulness of things like the thruster pack, which is honestly a much better mechanic but has never reached its potential because of sprint. You take sprint out, up the normal movement speed, and balancing everything else becomes much easier.

 

I get that 343 feels like it has to have sprint because other shooters do, but even without it, this still feels like a next gen title. This really shouldn't be an issue.

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After rewatching the Str8 vs Optic match, I feel like my opinion on this has slightly changed. I'm going to go into this with an open mind, and I'm honestly looking forward to some of these aspects.

 

I feel at the core, I was watching Halo, but with a ton of new stuff on top of it. Now, how much the new stuff actually changes it is the real question.

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