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Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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Eden was a bad Slayer map. Imagine it with Extraction or Strongholds though...

 

:flames:

 

Removing Slayer for more objective gametypes in HCS would solve that problem :p

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Eden is a bit too big for Oddball IMO, especially since throwing the ball off the outside ledge or onto the very big bottom middle would be really easy.

 

Extraction and Strongholds doeeee

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Removing Slayer for more objective gametypes in HCS would solve that problem :P

I'm just sitting here waiting for Strongholds...

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I feel like Eden was attempting an experience similar to Hang em' High, but fell short because of its imposing bases with far too much cover. It doesn't help that there is also bridges that have guard rails and sheets of steel that protect you when you're fighting. The only gametypes that would work well would be Hill, Strongholds, and 1 Flag; gametypes that promote map movement more than just Power Weapons.

I thought Pegasus was doing a similar thing, although Pegasus was a decent map.

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I wonder if interns are doing the forge maps like Orion & Pegasus.

 

Didn't an intern make Hang 'Em High?

Chris Carney made Hang Em High, I don't think he was an intern, just on another position, I could be wrong.

 

A company with hundreds of Employees making a multi million dollar budget game wouldn't give an intern the task of putting a map in their game...

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Chris Carney made Hang Em High, I don't think he was an intern, just on another position, I could be wrong.

A company with hundreds of Employees making a multi million dollar budget game wouldn't give an intern the task of putting a map in their game...

yeah they just have them work on networking over at 343.
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Chris Carney made Hang Em High, I don't think he was an intern, just on another position, I could be wrong.

 

A company with hundreds of Employees making a multi million dollar budget game wouldn't give an intern the task of putting a map in their game...

 

I could've sworn there was an intern who made a CE/2 map... thought it was hang em. Or maybe it was the original concept, which someone else reworked. 

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I feel like Eden was attempting an experience similar to Hang em' High, but fell short because of its imposing bases with far too much cover. It doesn't help that there is also bridges that have guard rails and sheets of steel that protect you when you're fighting. The only gametypes that would work well would be Hill, Strongholds, and 1 Flag; gametypes that promote map movement more than just Power Weapons.

Hang 'em is a terrible map outside of H1, and even in H1 it's nothing spectacular. If Eden falls short in an attempt to replicate that map, it might actually be a good thing, or it'll be even more awful.

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Chris Carney made Hang Em High, I don't think he was an intern, just on another position, I could be wrong.

 

A company with hundreds of Employees making a multi million dollar budget game wouldn't give an intern the task of putting a map in their game...

Or release an entirely broken product and not fix it for 9+ months.

 

 

:kappa:

 

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Chris Carney made Hang Em High, I don't think he was an intern, just on another position, I could be wrong.

 

A company with hundreds of Employees making a multi million dollar budget game wouldn't give an intern the task of putting a map in their game...

Rat Race made it in and Hardy LeBel admits he barely knew how to use the 3D program at the time. While Chris Carney may have completed Hang 'em, I'm pretty sure it began as an amalgamation of random geometry by some guy just experimenting with stuff, and Hardy was the one who helped finish it. I think you overestimate the structuredness of Halo 1's multiplayer team; some map almost made it in with a secret underground room plastered with pictures of the girlfriend of some guy who was about to be fired. Damnation was originally a campaign map, Boarding Action was built around jetpacks, etc.
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some map almost made it in with a secret underground room plastered with pictures of the girlfriend of some guy who was about to be fired.

Sounds like a great map to me. 

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Rat Race made it in and Hardy LeBel admits he barely knew how to use the 3D program at the time. While Chris Carney may have completed Hang 'em, I'm pretty sure it began as an amalgamation of random geometry by some guy just experimenting with stuff, and Hardy was the one who helped finish it. I think you overestimate the structuredness of Halo 1's multiplayer team; some map almost made it in with a secret underground room plastered with pictures of the girlfriend of some guy who was about to be fired. Damnation was originally a campaign map, Boarding Action was built around jetpacks, etc.

it's amazing how halo 1 was an accidental hit.

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Hang 'em is a terrible map outside of H1, and even in H1 it's nothing spectacular. If Eden falls short in an attempt to replicate that map, it might actually be a good thing, or it'll be even more awful.

 

Thing is, Eden could've taken the idea for the catwalks being less protected, along with structurally weakening the bases. There was too much peek-shooting in those areas because of the amount of cover all over the place. Hang em', despite being the weakest map in CE, still had good strategies formed to counter the open ramps and covered floor. Eden flipped this around, and it should not have happened.

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Thing is, Eden could've taken the idea for the catwalks being less protected, along with structurally weakening the bases. There was too much peek-shooting in those areas because of the amount of cover all over the place. Hang em', despite being the weakest map in CE, still had good strategies formed to counter the open ramps and covered floor. Eden flipped this around, and it should not have happened.

it's funny how one of the weakest ce maps is still a great map on its own.

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It really seems like Hang 'Em was built around the idea of weapon launching(?), but I remember Hardy saying they never knew that would even be a thing..

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It has always seemed strange that the Halo games that Bungie rushed (CE, ODST, H2 MP) ended up being the best, while whenever they took their time, they ended up being relatively lackluster (H3 and Reach). 

 

Its a shame in Halo 3's case especially. While the pitfalls with matchmaking are well known (at least within the competitive circle), the campaign probably has the best encounter design of the whole series when looked at holistically. Its a shame the the audiovisual/kinesthetic aspect of the game was so lacking.

 

I really wish the game had better map design as well. I'm pretty sure I let out an audible groan whenever people voted Narrows...

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The maps in the Halo 5 beta were TERRIBLE. Legit didn't like a single one. The only maps that played OK at best were the midship remakes, but even then, they are a farcry of good Halo maps in the past.

 

The "cityscape" maps were horrendous. Ledges above you everywhere you went, 1000 different routes to take, boxes and spheres everywhere, and fucking staircases up and down from every angle.

 

On all the maps, you have about 100 different choices of cover to sprint behind on every map. A box is always a thruster away, and high points are easily escapable at any second from multiple different angles.

 

The balance is all out of whack now. Look at midship on Halo 2. If you go top middle, it can be extremely advantageous if you go unnoticed. However, it's extremely detrimental if you get seen. It's a clear cut tradeoff that made past Halos beautiful. High points are advantageous, but if you fuck up, you're screwed.

 

Now go top middle on Truth in Halo 5. If you go unnoticed, it's still extremely advantageous, but if you fuck up, you can now get away so much easier. In a matter of seconds, you can thrust and sprint away and be in the bottom of either base. On regret, you can simply camp in the middle behind either of the FOUR WALLS they put up there, or sprint off the edge and be behind one of the many walls around the bottom.

 

Go S3 on lockout in Halo 2. If you're getting attacked from top mid, you have 2 options. Go to s2 or go s1. S3 is an advantageous positions, but with that comes limited escape routes.

 

Now go to a highpoint on a cityscape map. With sprint and thruster, you can literally take 10 different exit routes. Corners are literally everywhere, and with sprint, you can now go behind them in split seconds.

 

Chase someone on The Pit in Halo 3. The person running away has about 2 options at every point in the map to get away. This is a nice rock, papper, scissor effect. My enemy can either go here or there.

 

Now try chasing someone on those stupid city maps. You don't know where the fuck they'll be. Furthermore, if I chase someone, my fucking gun has to be down, or else my enemy is getting away at 2x the speed as me and is unreachable. When my gun is down, all my enemy has to do is sprint towards their team, and now I'm fucked because my guns down.

 

I'm having trouble expressing my feelings about the maps, so sorry if it's confusing. But with the bad map designs, sprint, and abilities, the balance is seriously out of whack.

 

Halo 5 is going to be a constant ring around the rosie and it's complexity of maps is destroying the core aspect of Halo: gunskill>all.

 

Yeah we know, but 343 thought immersion was more important than game play.

 

But hey, for the first time ever you get to feel like a super spartan solider..............

 

 

 

 

:(

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The maps in the Halo 5 beta were TERRIBLE. Legit didn't like a single one. The only maps that played OK at best were the midship remakes, but even then, they are a farcry of good Halo maps in the past.

 

The "cityscape" maps were horrendous. Ledges above you everywhere you went, 1000 different routes to take, boxes and spheres everywhere, and fucking staircases up and down from every angle.

 

On all the maps, you have about 100 different choices of cover to sprint behind on every map. A box is always a thruster away, and high points are easily escapable at any second from multiple different angles.

 

The balance is all out of whack now. Look at midship on Halo 2. If you go top middle, it can be extremely advantageous if you go unnoticed. However, it's extremely detrimental if you get seen. It's a clear cut tradeoff that made past Halos beautiful. High points are advantageous, but if you fuck up, you're screwed.

 

Now go top middle on Truth in Halo 5. If you go unnoticed, it's still extremely advantageous, but if you fuck up, you can now get away so much easier. In a matter of seconds, you can thrust and sprint away and be in the bottom of either base. On regret, you can simply camp in the middle behind either of the FOUR WALLS they put up there, or sprint off the edge and be behind one of the many walls around the bottom.

 

Go S3 on lockout in Halo 2. If you're getting attacked from top mid, you have 2 options. Go to s2 or go s1. S3 is an advantageous positions, but with that comes limited escape routes.

 

Now go to a highpoint on a cityscape map. With sprint and thruster, you can literally take 10 different exit routes. Corners are literally everywhere, and with sprint, you can now go behind them in split seconds.

 

Chase someone on The Pit in Halo 3. The person running away has about 2 options at every point in the map to get away. This is a nice rock, papper, scissor effect. My enemy can either go here or there.

 

Now try chasing someone on those stupid city maps. You don't know where the fuck they'll be. Furthermore, if I chase someone, my fucking gun has to be down, or else my enemy is getting away at 2x the speed as me and is unreachable. When my gun is down, all my enemy has to do is sprint towards their team, and now I'm fucked because my guns down.

 

I'm having trouble expressing my feelings about the maps, so sorry if it's confusing. But with the bad map designs, sprint, and abilities, the balance is seriously out of whack.

 

Halo 5 is going to be a constant ring around the rosie and it's complexity of maps is destroying the core aspect of Halo: gunskill>all.

So much this. The maps in the beta and the ones shown post beta are awful.

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It has always seemed strange that the Halo games that Bungie rushed (CE, ODST, H2 MP) ended up being the best, while whenever they took their time, they ended up being relatively lackluster (H3 and Reach). 

 

Its a shame in Halo 3's case especially. While the pitfalls with matchmaking are well known (at least within the competitive circle), the campaign probably has the best encounter design of the whole series when looked at holistically. Its a shame the the audiovisual/kinesthetic aspect of the game was so lacking.

 

I really wish the game had better map design as well. I'm pretty sure I let out an audible groan whenever people voted Narrows...

I found Halo 3's maps to be fine. The problem is they're not very vertical. The big problems with Halo 3 are the hit detection and movement speed. Equipment wasn't something I minded and the FOV, while a bit restrictive, didn't really make me that sick.

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