Jump to content
CyReN

Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

Recommended Posts

084.png

 

Explain, why locking me out of ranked will stop people from boosting still, ddosing, etc.

It's going prevent people to start new accounts to stomp players, or boost friends playing on a lower level account. 

 

Do you really wanna go through 100 games everytime you are going to do this? It's just an extra hinder for people that want to abuse the system. 

 

It's what bungie considered the biggest problem of Halo 3. 

Share this post


Link to post

it is going to hinder many, but obviously not all. Almost everyone that has played previous Halo games will be able to jump into ranked day one. All the serious Halo players. 

So it's a bad idea.

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

You are using your bias as a justification. Social has always been more popular.

Social has always been more popular because it's called Social. I think 343 wants as many gametypes to be ranked as possible(Josh or whoever said I think), and I agree. 

Share this post


Link to post

It's going prevent people to start new accounts to stomp players, or boost friends playing on a lower level account. 

 

Do you really wanna go through 100 games everytime you are going to do this? It's just an extra hinder for people that want to abuse the system. 

 

It's what bungie considered the biggest problem of Halo 3. 

The easy solution is to make it so if there's someone on your or the opponent's team that is outside the skill range of players you could normally match while searching alone, then their skill level should be removed for the equation when the system averages all the ranks to give you an appropriate amount of progression towards the next level.

 

For example:

 

Halo 3 (skill range +/-10 highest level in group)

 

Your team:

50

49

40

12

 

avg. 37.75

 

Opponent team:

50

50

49

50

 

avg. 49.75

 

Assume "Your team" wins. At the end of the game, since there's a dude below level 40 (which is the lowest you should be allowed to match based on search restrictions), then the game just ignores that one person in particular when averaging levels

 

Your team:

50

49

40

12

 

avg. 46.3

 

So instead of the game assuming your odds of winning were much lower (woah a level 37.75 team beat a 49.75, let's reward them a lot!) giving a massive boost in progression, it's more balanced. You rank up at a normal rate, it lets people search with whoever their heart sees fit, and there's no boosting.

 

Of course, the same logic can be applied to loses. The opponent team isn't punished a lot for no reason due to losing to a weaker level average (which could just be some dude on an alt). It also prevents the safety net exploit of the game assuming "well the level 37.75 dudes have a much greater chance of losing, so let's not punish them as much".

 

See how simple that was? Now people can search ANYTHING, whenever desired.

  • Upvote (+1) 3

Share this post


Link to post

 

What if I help my friend on a noob account with him on his noob account? 

 

What if you do it this way?

 

50

12

14

12

 

against 

 

50

50

50

50

 

?

 

What if it's half, half? 

 

50

50

12

12

 

against 

 

50

50

12

15

 

Your logic also has to work with the very complicated formula of the ranking system itself. 

Share this post


Link to post

snip

 

Or: Just don't use your teammate's stats to determine the amount of skill gained, calculate each player individually vs the opponent's average. In your example the lvl 12 guy would get a huge boost and the others not so much.

 

 

 

Yeah, good for them but I'm not a fan. I don't want to be forced to play social games to play what I want.

 

EDIT: Ranks don't reset in CSGO, right? If you keep playing, your rank won't go down. Makes account selling worth it. In Halo 5, there will be seasons like Arena Reach and they'll reset, making account selling not worth it.

 

Don't lock me out.

 

CSGO hides the rank if a player doesn't win a ranked game in over a month, but unless someone is hacking or boosting it will never be reset.

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

What if I help my friend on a noob account with him on his noob account? 

 

What if you do it this way?

 

50

12

14

12

 

against 

 

50

50

50

50

 

?

 

What if it's half, half? 

 

Many times this happens:

 

50

50

12

12

 

against 

 

50

50

12

15

 

Your logic also has to work with the very complicated formula of the ranking system itself. 

You remove the dudes outside the skill range altogether from the average.

 

So all the match-ups listed would be equal to full teams of 50s. Though I need to point out that someone searching 50 high with levels 12 x2 and 14 as teammates is either very lost, very confident, or searching with alts. If it's not one of the last two, that person must not deserve their 50 to begin with. 

Share this post


Link to post

Or: Just don't use your teammate's stats to determine the amount of skill gained, calculate each player individually vs the opponent's average. In your example the lvl 12 guy would get a huge boost and the others not so much.

I've considered that before, but people also search with low boosters/derankers/alts to have an negative effect on the opponent team (both making wins worth less in terms of progression, and making losses far more punishing). This will be even more prevalent in a situation where top rank spots (Pro / Top 200) are limited.

 

E.G. You make someone in "Pro" get a huge loss with a noob account in order to free up a spot for your main who might be top 201-205 or something.

Share this post


Link to post

You remove the dudes outside the skill range altogether from the average.

 

So all the match-ups listed would be equal to full teams of 50s. Though I need to point out that someone searching 50 high with levels 12 x2 and 14 as teammates is either very lost, very confident, or searching with alts. If it's not one of the last two, that person must not deserve their 50 to begin with. 

If they are alts, the average is going to be much lower than what you want it to be. They are going to rank up super quick. 

 

I searched with a team of legit 10-20 on my 50 ;)

 

I also don't need to be a level 50 to help someone rank up. I can start a level 1 account and help my friend which is level 30 rank up. Now I am excluded from the the average and he is ranking up at normal rate. 

 

This all has to work with a certain algorithm, which it might not. 

Share this post


Link to post

If they are alts, the average is going to be much lower than what you want it to be. They are going to rank up super quick. 

OK, but how is that a problem?

 

If someone is on a new account and is able to play at that level consistently all the way to 50, then they deserve that 50. The main problem with Halo 3 was just how the ranks progressed too fast (50 in 20 games should NEVER have been possible).

Share this post


Link to post

OK, but how is that a problem?

 

If someone is on a new account and is able to play at that level consistently all the way to 50, then they deserve that 50. The main problem with Halo 3 was just how the ranks progressed too fast (50 in 20 games should NEVER have been possible).

If you are selling the accounts.

Share this post


Link to post

But people care about racking up kills on an account it looks nice. Plus making an alt just means I'm gonna wreck rank 1 kids and ruin their fun. There should be social I don't get why there wouldn't be. This is a brand new game only having a limited amount of playlists is just stupid. You should cater to a wide audience and then go from there.

 

?? Just have one account for when you play solo (or with good people), and another account to play with your BK friends. It's a lot better than dividing the population with duplicate playlists, just so some people can pubstomp or play with crappy player/friends.

Share this post


Link to post

No, it's not. It's a good idea. The point is to keep the player on one account, and it's helping. 

"Hey dude, lets play some ranked!"

 

"I can't, I haven't played enough social games yet."

 

It's not a good idea, at all.

  • Upvote (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post

"Hey dude, lets play some ranked!"

 

"I can't, I haven't played enough social games yet."

 

It's not a good idea, at all.

If you are a serious player you'll slip through if we have that 1000 games combined rule. 

 

If not, you are going to play this game for 3 years, and if you truly are a serious player you can manage not play ranked for 3-5 days. 

 

If you haven't played the game before (and Halo games before), it's great to practice in social a little bit first. 

 

And if your just gonna fuck up and screw the ranking system, hey, here's a 100 game limit on new accounts. Play them first, every time you are making a new account!

Share this post


Link to post

I read a post a while back on this forum that Sal1ent made about possibly implementing an API/stat tracking service for h5, but can't seem to find it. Anyone remember what it specifically said/can quote?

Share this post


Link to post

I've considered that before, but people also search with low boosters/derankers/alts to have an negative effect on the opponent team (both making wins worth less in terms of progression, and making losses far more punishing). This will be even more prevalent in a situation where top rank spots (Pro / Top 200) are limited.

 

E.G. You make someone in "Pro" get a huge loss with a noob account in order to free up a spot for your main who might be top 201-205 or something.

 

A noob account should never match a Pro though, even if he's running with 3 top players. Of course this is hypothetically speaking, because 343i always finds a way.

Share this post


Link to post

If you are a serious player you'll slip through if we have that 1000 games combined rule. 

 

If not, you are going to play this game for 3 years, and if you truly are a serious player you can manage not play ranked for 3-5 days. 

 

If you haven't played the game before (and Halo games before), it's great to practice in social a little bit first. 

 

And if your just gonna fuck up and screw the ranking system, hey, here's a 100 game limit on new accounts. Play them first, every time you are making a new account!

It's still a horrible idea. Halo 5 is going to have seasons without a doubt (it's irrelevant to mention Reach because that wasn't the reason it sucked). 

 

I've got a few friends who have barely touched Halo but will be picking up Halo 5 and be interested in ranked games. I'd love to tell them "Sorry I can't play ranked with you mate, they added this stupid thing which requires you to play 50+ social games before you can touch ranked."

 

The best practice you can get is ranking up and matching people of similar skill levels. If you lose and rank down, you need to improve and social will never provide that.

Share this post


Link to post

It's still a horrible idea. Halo 5 is going to have seasons without a doubt (it's irrelevant to mention Reach because that wasn't the reason it sucked). 

 

I've got a few friends who have barely touched Halo but will be picking up Halo 5 and be interested in ranked games. I'd love to tell them "Sorry I can't play ranked with you mate, they added this stupid thing which requires you to play 50+ social games before you can touch ranked."

 

The best practice you can get is ranking up and matching people of similar skill levels. If you lose and rank down, you need to improve and social will never provide that.

 

Reach seasons got hated on so much. They will be a lot longer this time around.

 

Obviously there is a trade off. I'll gladly take those trade offs for a better ranking system. Players that has never played Halo should get familiar with the game through Social, most of them even will, without any kind of lock on ranked. 

 

I think there is a very small group of players that has never played the previous Halo games and absolutely want to play a ranked, and can't wait 3-5 days to do so. 

 

Such a system will almost exclusively hurt people that make new accounts often. 

Share this post


Link to post

The best practice you can get is ranking up and matching people of similar skill levels. If you lose and rank down, you need to improve and social will never provide that.

So much this.

Share this post


Link to post

A noob account should never match a Pro though, even if he's running with 3 top players. Of course this is hypothetically speaking, because 343i always finds a way.

You could make it impossible to search with pros if you're too low. I've suggested that to Josh Menke but he didn't like the idea.

 

I am not sure if Halo 5 seasons. I almost doubt so with all the negativity reach got. 

People didn't dislike Reach's ranking system because of seasons. It was because the ranks were hidden like 6 pages deep on the service record and no one cared enough to use it as a measure of skill. It was one of the best and most precise ranking systems Halo has ever seen.

 

Also ranks carried over through seasons (alternating on a two season pattern, E.G. S1 -> S3, S2 -> S4, etc.) through hidden TrueSkill. You just had to get through placement matches again and you'd be back in almost the same spot as the previous season... which was a problem. It got to a point where people were always pretty much the same rank throughout seasons without moving much at all.

 

The main thing that didn't work out for Reach is how it became almost impossible to find matches at the highest level. It made people play it less and less over time, and it got to a point where it pretty much died out. For the longest time I was #1 on Halocharts for Arena, and the reason I lost the spot was because I was ranked consistently Onyx 1% and I couldn't find matches most of the time, whereas someone ranked Onyx 10-15% searching alone could find matches non-stop all day, and eventually catch up despite having worst stats on every end but thousands more games played.

 

MLG was a lot more fun anyway.

 

 

EDIT: Fixed a grammar mistake.

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

Obviously there is a trade off. I'll gladly take those trade offs for a better ranking system. Players that has never played Halo should get familiar with the game through Social, most of them even will, without any kind of lock on ranked. 

 

Solve a problem (and I use the term 'solve' loosely) by creating more problems. Genius. Killer trade off, bro.

Share this post


Link to post

Solve a problem (and I use the term 'solve' loosely) by creating more problems. Genius. Killer trade off, bro.

The problem is? 

 

10% of the games population won't be able to play ranked for the next 5 days at release? A playlist they most likely won't play anyway as they are new to the franchise? 

 

For something that won't even bother the people it is affecting this is a superb trade off for a much better working ranking system. 

 

If you are that one person in the world that has never played Halo before and would just love to play ranked, it's only 100 games once. 

Share this post


Link to post

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use & Privacy Policy.