Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

[Goat]

Even if it were more contextual and had a narrower window, it doesn't change the core problem of the feature: it rewards you for not making a jump and is easier than a crouch jump, and the ability to not shoot for one second is so negligible it will have no effect on gameplay.

That does affect gameplay though. 

 

Let's take 3 situations where Player X runs and jumps horizontally from Platform A to Platform B in order to fight Player Y. 

 

In example 1, Player X jumps and their body is completely above the platform. They land squarely on top retaining full movement and combat abilities to immediately engage Player Y.

 

In example 2, Player X's feet are below the platform because there wasn't enough altitude to land on top of it. However, Player X crouch jumps to bring their legs up higher, thereby landing on top of it. They are slower immediately following the landing because they are crouched, which delays their engagement with Player Y.

 

In example 3, Player X is almost completely below the platform because the jump didn't have enough altitude. However, the player uses Clamber to climb onto the ledge, further delaying their combat ability to engage Player Y by lowering their gun for a second.

 

Perhaps that tradeoff isn't obvious because - again - there are "Clamber Ledges" that are being spread liberally throughout the maps to encourage people to use it. Or perhaps Sprint is increasing the weighting on Clamber for horizontal maneuvers. Nevertheless, I think it works well when the map is designed appropriately such so that Clamber at the end of a lateral jump is used as a last resort as opposed to an alternative to a timed jump or a crouch landing.

 

Vertical manuevers are slightly different. In the past, we had to rely on various styles of "elevators" like lifts and jump ups to move from one elevation to another. Whether they require Clamber or crouch jumping will vary depending on its uses.

 

 

You can crouch jump onto these round turbines from the defensive side (foreground) but can only clamber from the offensive side (background). I think that's a good usage of the ability. One could argue that a jump up on the side of the platform would serve a better purpose as it has in the past. Clamber seems to be replacing that more than anything, which I don't mind considering that jump-ups take up space and a similar amount of travel time. 

[Larry Sizemore]

Jesus christ, why doesn't Empire look like that? That's way better than the sea of white that is every playable version we've seen. Tone down those rays a bit and you're good to go.

[My Namez BEAST]

Think about how easy S1 to S2 on Guardian would be with clamber. There are so many examples.

[Killmachine]

That does affect gameplay though. 

 

Let's take 3 situations where Player X runs and jumps horizontally from Platform A to Platform B in order to fight Player Y. 

 

In example 1, Player X jumps and their body is completely above the platform. They land squarely on top retaining full movement and combat abilities to immediately engage Player Y.

 

In example 2, Player X's feet are below the platform because there wasn't enough altitude to land on top of it. However, Player X crouch jumps to bring their legs up higher, thereby landing on top of it. They are slower immediately following the landing because they are crouched, which delays their engagement with Player Y.

 

In example 3, Player X is almost completely below the platform because the jump didn't have enough altitude. However, the player uses Clamber to climb onto the ledge, further delaying their combat ability to engage Player Y by lowering their gun for a second.

 

Perhaps that tradeoff isn't obvious because - again - there are "Clamber Ledges" that are being spread liberally throughout the maps to encourage people to use it. Or perhaps Sprint is increasing the weighting on Clamber for horizontal maneuvers. Nevertheless, I think it works well when the map is designed appropriately such so that Clamber at the end of a lateral jump is used as a last resort as opposed to an alternative to a timed jump or a crouch landing.

 

Vertical manuevers are slightly different. In the past, we had to rely on various styles of "elevators" like lifts and jump ups to move from one elevation to another. Whether they require Clamber or crouch jumping will vary depending on its uses.

 

 

You can crouch jump onto these round turbines from the defensive side (foreground) but can only clamber from the offensive side (background). I think that's a good usage of the ability. One could argue that a jump up on the side of the platform would serve a better purpose as it has in the past. Clamber seems to be replacing that more than anything, which I don't mind considering that jump-ups take up space and a similar amount of travel time. 

Of course if we're talking about people actually using clamber offensively. But much like the rest of the Spartan abilities, they are defensive tools first and foremost. Even then, if you're getting shot after the clamber you have an entire arsenal of ways to run away (thruster, sprint, etc.). Clambering and not being able to shoot is negligible because A. it's for a second B. with a higher TTK then beta and with many ways to escape, getting killed in clamber is near impossible.

 

Clamber still will let you miss a jump and pull yourself up, so I don't see why my point doesn't stand. Even if we make the window narrower for a successful jump, the core problem still exists, much like nerfing sprint with shield recharge still doesn't fix the fundamental problem of that feature.

[Infinity]

snip

That's a damn good example.

[Goat]

Of course if we're talking about people actually using clamber offensively. But much like the rest of the Spartan abilities, they are defensive tools first and foremost. Even then, if you're getting shot after the clamber you have an entire arsenal of ways to run away (thruster, sprint, etc.). Clambering and not being able to shoot is negligible because A. it's for a second B. with a higher TTK then beta and with many ways to escape, getting killed in clamber is near impossible.

 

Clamber still will let you miss a jump and pull yourself up, so I don't see why my point doesn't stand. Even if we make the window narrower for a successful jump, the core problem still exists, much like nerfing sprint with shield recharge still doesn't fix the fundamental problem of that feature.

 

Clamber seems to be intentionally designed to change what it means to "miss a jump".

 

If you're suggesting that they make it more difficult and/or take longer, that's something that I'm sure they might explore in the future, if they haven't already. If a full jump is 100% above the platform, crouch jump is 60% and clamber is 10%, they need to bring clamber up to 30% to squeeze that margin for error. If it's as fast and easy as it is currently, I can see how that might lead to less thought put into manuevering around the map, therefore dumbing down player decisions rather than enhancing it. 

 

Again, for lateral movements I want clamber to function as a last resort more than a safety net. 

[Killmachine]

Clamber seems to be intentionally designed to change what it means to "miss a jump".

 

If you're suggesting that they make it more difficult and/or take longer, that's something that I'm sure they might explore in the future, if they haven't already. If a full jump is 100% above the platform, crouch jump is 60% and clamber is 10%, they need to bring clamber up to 30% to squeeze that margin for error. If it's as fast and easy as it is currently, I can see how that might lead to less thought put into manuevering around the map, therefore dumbing down player decisions rather than enhancing it. 

 

Again, for later movements I want clamber to function as a last resort more than a safety net. 

Sure and I'd like it to be that last resort. I'm going off of what I've played in the beta and what I've seen post-beta at E3 and Gamescom. It's just I dislike a feature that takes out the input required for successful jumps in previous games. Hopefully they can actually make clamber a worthy addition. We'll see.

[Goat]

Sure and I'd like it to be that last resort. I'm going off of what I've played in the beta and what I've seen post-beta at E3 and Gamescom. It's just I dislike a feature that takes out the input required for successful jumps in previous games. Hopefully they can actually make clamber a worthy addition. We'll see.

 

Honestly I think Sprint ruins Clamber by letting the player leap much further than normal. That alone elevates Clamber's utility over crouch jumping. If there was no Sprint, the jump could be spaced such so that a mistimed jump would require a Thrust into a Clamber, otherwise you'd fall short completely.

[Batchford]

Did anyone experiment with nade launching in the H5 beta? Is it going to be like nade launching in H1 where you could safely nade weapons across the map?

 

It sure wold be fun to see that minute countdown until sniper spawns and someone on each team set up a nade launch and throw nades at the same time and launch the snipe to bumfuck nowhere so no one gets to use it...

 

That is why Fast Static timers would be nice.

[TI Inspire]

Q1 2015

PS4 25 million 

Xbox one 13 million

 

Note that both Console launched on the same year

 

It can't be understated how badly Microsoft's initial planned used game policy hurt the Xbox One; that idiotic planned policy has cost them millions in sales simply because of the lasting poor PR it caused.

[imAlexTheKid]

Its all personal opinion but there is no way that H5 based on the beta or the gameplay footage post beta looks better than H3 or Reach V7 NBNS. I'll also point out that there has not been a single good map made since the game was built around sprint.

[F U N Z B O B]

Half my friends cant wait for this game and the other half hate it 

 

The beta was fun but it was sooo different from the halo i have grown to love im still very much on the fence .

 

 

At the end of the day im sure i will get it and play like i always have with new friends and old ones.

[zZunair]

unpopular opinion (and someone who hasn't seen much h5 gameplay lately and only played the beta) but i think Clamber for the most part is fine. Removing the execution (if you want to call it that) really doesn't take away from the game when it comes to skill. The application of using skilled jumps matters more than the execution required for the jump if you ask me if you were to talk about "skill". So with the game making Clamber a core part of the game and how map design seems (from what I've seen, which isn't much), it seems 343i is more interested in more creative map navigation. Even making a lot of clamber jumps actually a thought out part of the map design.  

 

I think it's good how they're dealing with it from what I've seen so far. It's definitely going to broaden the trick jumps and map navigation to a lot more players than before. Now it's more about how you're going to apply all these routes to your game in a smart way.

 

However, why console gamers who play a game with aim assist care about execution in a skillset that isn't going to make or break the game matter so much i don't know why. 

[Nades]

How do you clamber again? I forgot, is it an automatic thing or do you press a button?

[Infinity]

How do you clamber again? I forgot, is it an automatic thing or do you press a button?

There is an option to where you can either Hold Jump to Clamber or Tap Jump to Clamber.

 

A lot of us wish Hold to Clamber wasn't an option.

[Goat]

That's a damn good example.

 

#Diagrams

 

[TheIcePrincess]

There is an option to where you can either Hold Jump to Clamber or Tap Jump to Clamber.

 

A lot of us wish Hold to Clamber wasn't an option.

Hold F to pay respects.

[Infinity]

Hold F to pay respects.

mourning the death of Skill Jumps?

[TheIcePrincess]

mourning the death of Skill Jumps?

They're not dead. If I can still use them, they're still alive and kicking.

 

 

[MATCLAN]

#Diagrams

 

And all of the above get the Blue player killed.

Secret Option 5: Blue player stops running & jumping directly at Red like a derp and shoots him in the face instead because he spawned with a gun that shoots straight. :P

[Goat]

And all of the above get the Blue player killed.

Secret Option 5: Blue player stops running & jumping directly at Red like a derp and shoots him in the face instead because he spawned with a gun that shoots straight. :P

 

Red Player is AFK and Blue is going for the backsmack. 

[Infinity]

I think the most important question about the diagrams is why there is a gaping hole in the ground. RIP Blue Player

[Goat]

2 changes they can make right away to make improve Clamber:

 

-Increase the animation from .90 seconds to 1.2 - 1.5 seconds

-Make the Clamber window smaller

 

What are you guys going on about with tap to Clamber vs hold to Clamber? 

[Il Meanbean lI]

2 changes they can make right away to make improve Clamber:

 

-Increase the animation from .90 seconds to 1.2 - 1.5 seconds

-Make the Clamber window smaller

 

What are you guys going on about with tap to Clamber vs hold to Clamber?

You can hold the a button and at any point after jumping and it'll clamber as soon as you hit a ledge.

[Goat]

You can hold the a button and at any point after jumping and it'll clamber as soon as you hit a ledge.

Oh, I understand now. 

 

That's a bit too much hand holding. Probably for people who haven't switched to #BumperJumperMasterRace.