Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

[ABearInTheWoods]

I thought we can turn sprint and other Spartan abilities off in custom games, why not tournaments?

 

343 wants sprint - it will be in HCS no matter what.  They literally have designed all of their maps around it.

[Mr Grim]

Why are you comparing crouch jumping to clambering? You should compare regular jumping to clamber and crouch jumping to boost jumping.

clamber renders crouch jumping obsolete, because the whole point of both is to clear a high ledge. One does it far easier than the other.

[Killmachine]

You can still miss the jump and not be able to clamber. It's not like everyone can just pull off a clamber when need be, given you still need to time it, and jump properly, or miss.

But you can miss your jump and still be rewarded by being able to just pull yourself up. That's a problem.

[MaceX42]

Just because maps are designed around clamber, doesn't change the fundamental problem with it: making skill jumps requires a simple button press now. There's no input besides pressing A and facing the ledge. Even if the maps are designed around clamber, they won't be particularly hard because even if you don't make it on top of the platform, you still have a way to get up. Crouch jumping is now negligible because at the height that a crouch jump will be possible, a clamber will be, too.

http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/MaceX42/video/5388031

 

What makes this play any different from crouch jumping in halo 1-3?

 

Nice avi btw

[Mr Grim]

It should be noted that ledges don't always have to allow clamber. We saw this on a few maps, which is where the gp trick came in handy.

[Killmachine]

http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/MaceX42/video/5388031

 

What makes this play any different from crouch jumping in halo 1-3?

 

Nice avi btw

The difference is the intent and the average use of it. Sure, you can do things like that, and that's awesome. But that's like saying if I make one play where I use sprint offensively out of the 99 other times I use it defensively, it makes it no different than flanking someone with base speed. There are certain ways it can be skillfull, but on the whole, it really is holding your hand.

[Moa]

So has there been any talk about custom games being able to hold up to 24 people at all? Did they address it yet? It would be ridiculous for it not to work since its already in the game. Pretty much no excuse now for there not to be at least 24 people in a game at this point since other games such as Battlefield have been doing it for years now.

Said they'd announce at a later date.

[MaceX42]

The difference is the intent and the average use of it. Sure, you can do things like that, and that's awesome. But that's like saying if I make one play where I use sprint offensively out of the 99 other times I use it defensively, it makes it no different than flanking someone with base speed. There are certain ways it can be skillfull, but on the whole, it really is holding your hand.

I used boost-jumping for every single jump, it's extremely practical. Watch how this guy is able to traverse the map with out ever having to clamber.

[Infinity]

Said they'd announce at a later date.

No Warzone Customs, so assuming BTB is 16 players then I doubt we'll see a cap increase.

[TeeJaY]

Didn't Josh mention that clamber is a trade off just like sprint or thrusters? So how does clamber make crouch jumps obsolete when you'll be punished by an amimation if you miss the jump? The more skilled jumpers will be able to keep their gun up and get those extra shots on enemies.

 

It is all dependent on the map design. If they make it so most ledges can be obtained with crouch jumping, then skill jumps will very well be present. Not to mention there were some pretty cool skill jumps in the beta using thrusters, GP, and clamber.

[EagleBurn]

Said they'd announce at a later date.

For the record, they never "announced" that Halo 5 wasn't going to have split-screen either. It was seen by someone on the Xbox.com page and then in response, 343 said that split-screen wasn't going to be in Halo 5. What if that Xbox.com page never had that info? Would we still know about split-screen? It seems like 343 has to be pushed in a corner to reveal negative info on their game. I wouldn't be surprised if we find out about the customs player count via a leaker a month before release.

[MaceX42]

clamber renders crouch jumping obsolete, because the whole point of both is to clear a high ledge. One does it far easier than the other.

Agreed crouch jumping is obselete (for the most part) but if it's being replaced by something that has the exact same function what difference does it make?

[Mr Grim]

For the record, they never "announced" that Halo 5 wasn't going to have split-screen either. It was seen by someone on the Xbox.com page and then in response, Josh Holmes tweeted that it wasn't going to be in Halo 5. What if that Xbox.com page never had that info? Would we still know about split-screen? It seems like 343 has to be pushed in a corner to reveal negative info on their game. I wouldn't be surprised if we find out about the customs player count via a leaker a month before release.

I don't think they planned on people expecting 24 players for custom games. Like someone asked and josh must've been like ".....shit, we gotta work on this since the whole no forge for warzone thing was a bummer".

[Ascendants]

Clamber will just add new skill jumps imo. People will probably find a way to mix a crouch jump with a clamber and pull off a type of jump never before seen in Halo. 

[Vetoed]

Didn't Josh mention that clamber is a trade off just like sprint or thrusters? So how does clamber make crouch jumps obsolete when you'll be punished by an amimation if you miss the jump? The more skilled jumpers will be able to keep their gun up and get those extra shots on enemies.

 

It is all dependent on the map design. If they make it so most ledges can be obtained with crouch jumping, then skill jumps will very well be present. Not to mention there were some pretty cool skill jumps in the beta.

I understand what you mean and I don't disagree regarding skill jumps (and the following might be more directed at Josh than you) but the clamber animation is a weak trade off versus missing a jump entirely and having to either try it again or go all the way around.

 

A more extreme example would be having a respawn time of 2 seconds instead of 5. Like sure you still have to wait 2 seconds, but it's not that much compared to 5 and it allows people to get away with weaker calculations.

 

Now, if you had to press up, up, down, down, left, right, left, right, B, A, start to spawn a bit faster, then people could argue that it takes a bit more skill. But as it right now, all you gotta do is hold A. (Keep in mind this is just an extension of the previous extreme/ridiculous example).

 

The main point is, clamber should just require timing to be considered at least somewhat skillful.

[Killmachine]

I used boost-jumping for every single jump, it's extremely practical. Watch how this guy is able to traverse the map with out ever having to clamber.

I've seen the video, and that's cool, too. But clamber in itself is a problem because it removes nearly every element of jumping. You can add boost jumping to show skillfull ways to clamber, but at it's core, I think clamber is a flawed feature in Halo. Boost jumping is just simply the most skillful use you can get out of it.

[Mr Grim]

Agrees crouch jumping is obselete (for the most part) but if it's being replaced by something that has the exact same function what difference does it make?

clamber is still much easier to use than crouch jumping. Most maps will be built around clamber, not crouch jumping.

 

Crouch jumping isn't the only form of skill jump however.

[MaceX42]

I've seen the video, and that's cool, too. But clamber in itself is a problem because it removes nearly every element of jumping. You can add boost jumping to show skillfull ways to clamber, but at it's core, I think clamber is a flawed feature in Halo. Boost jumping is just simply the most skillful use you can get out of it.

Fair enough

[TheIcePrincess]

But you can miss your jump and still be rewarded by being able to just pull yourself up. That's a problem.

Okay? That leaves you vulnerable, to which someone can smash you down. Why not just crouch jump, and retain your weaponry, especially when you can do what clamber can in the same time and remain viable in combat? Hell, wouldn't the introduction of this make skill jumpers have a slight upper hand in what they could do, as they could create new chains based on the abilities, like we saw with that video earlier? No casual player could pull off that movement set and it creates a new skill gap. 

[EagleBurn]

I don't think they planned on people expecting 24 players for custom games. Like someone asked and josh must've been like ".....shit, we gotta work on this since the whole no forge for warzone thing was a bummer".

 

Let's hope, but Halo 5 is a month away from going gold. It's hard to believe that 343 doesn't already know the answer, and them not telling us is not a good sign.

[Shura]

Agreed crouch jumping is obselete (for the most part) but if it's being replaced by something that has the exact same function what difference does it make?

I cannot believe a user in this Forums forgot about Immersion

[Killmachine]

Okay? That leaves you vulnerable, to which someone can smash you down. Why not just crouch jump, and retain your weaponry, especially when you can do what clamber can in the same time and remain viable in combat? Hell, wouldn't the introduction of this make skill jumpers have a slight upper hand in what they could do, as they could create new chains based on the abilities, like we saw with that video earlier? No casual player could pull off that movement set and it creates a new skill gap. 

No, because the easier route would be to clamber. Besides, the animation is fast enough that being vulnerable for a second is negligible. Maps aren't going to be designed around crouch jumps or other jumps like that, either, so unless you're jumping from a close enough height, you won't be able to have an advantage with crouch jumping.

[Shura]

They literally have designed all of their maps around it.

1. Toggle off Sprint

2. Increase Movement Speed

3. ????

4. Profit (?)

[Petty]

I cannot believe a user in this Forums forgot about Immersion

Trust the immersion.  Immerse yourself in immersion... It is your friend now.

[Mr Grim]

No, because the easier route would be to clamber. Besides, the animation is fast enough that being vulnerable for a second is negligible. Maps aren't going to be designed around crouch jumps or other jumps like that, either, so unless you're jumping from a close enough height, you won't be able to have an advantage with crouch jumping.

not to mention that trade off prevents it from being used in more interesting ways, making it ultimately less interesting of a mechanic.