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Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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The BR in H5 felt pretty good, world's better than the br from previous halo games. Barley any spread just wished it shot a little faster.

 

Pretty nervous about ar/pistol starts..the gun has too shallow of a magazine to make it a true utility weapon. 

 

What?

 

The BR may have 36 shots, but it shoots in 3 burst, so that is 12 shots. The pistol has 12 shots.

I shall say it again. Whaaaaaaaaaat?

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What?

 

The BR may have 36 shots, but it shoots in 3 burst, so that is 12 shots. The pistol has 12 shots.

I shall say it again. Whaaaaaaaaaat?

Isn't it still a 5 shot kill? 

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What?

 

The BR may have 36 shots, but it shoots in 3 burst, so that is 12 shots. The pistol has 12 shots.

I shall say it again. Whaaaaaaaaaat?

 

Lets not forget you can kill four people with the pistol, but you can only kill 3 people with the BR. That disproves the whole BR has more shots therefore it is better argument.

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That's not what he's talking about. Sometimes the bullets can get pulled into the chest/shoulders if you aim too low on the head. Aiming slightly above the head has been a tactic for a very long time for this reason.

thank you

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Lets not forget you can kill four people with the pistol, but you can only kill 3 people with the BR. That disproves the whole BR has more shots therefore it is better argument.

the ammo argument is more for the fact that the pistol is a 5sk now.

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the ammo argument is more for the fact that the pistol is a 5sk now.

 

 

Oh, we are talking about the H5 pistol. Sorry the pistol hasn't been relevant in Halo for years lol, I start researching the H5 pistol then.

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Oh, we are talking about the H5 pistol. Sorry the pistol hasn't been relevant in Halo for years lol, I start researching the H5 pistol then.

Yea that's the pistol where ammo could be a problem. CE is fine

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A utility weapon should be able to kill at least 3 people with perfect shots. Ideally I would want it to be four but lets at least establish the standard and move from there.

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Not sure why ammo count matters in an argument, you never see people getting 3 perfect kills with a single BR clip.

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Not sure why ammo count matters in an argument, you never see people getting 3 perfect kills with a single BR clip.

No but the potential is what matters. We need more of this...

 

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Let me put it this way. Burst based spread weapon. Very inconsistent and can miss, even if you hit, or hit, even if you miss. It rewards a bad style of play too. The Carbine at least fires straight with little in the way of spread and kills within the same timeframe. Not to mention, it isn't "spammy", it just has a high RoF to make up for its lower damage. 

 

Like, look here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIAaljP0jGY

 

I fire at a guy, standing still, within the BR's optimum red reticle range, and it takes 5 shots to kill, when the BR's a four shot, meaning one shot from a burst had to have missed somewhere. When I have a Carbine, Magnum or DMR, I'm not going to miss at all, however, the BR does. In short, it's horrible for consistency or competitive play. :P

 

The carbine doesn't fire straight. The bullets spread out in random there as well.

 

A burst weapon in itself is not bad, and spread in itself is not bad either. 

 

Any weapon, with any kind of rate of fire, with a pseudo-random generator added to it, is bad. 

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It really depends on how well the pistol is balanced against the rifles. 343i is trying to give the full sandbox a place and a purpose while giving players utility off of spawn.

 

From what we know right now, a pistol user isn't completely screwed against rifles in terms of range and power. The rifles will have an advantage, but I think for the most part it's still going to come down to positioning. Someone can use a rifle to lock down map control and keep a power weapon spawn clear of opponents, but they're still going to have to be smart about it. It's not gonna be like the snowball of SMG/AR starts of Halos past where the first team to get a BR will automatically control the map due to sheer range.

 

This is pretty much all theory at this point, though, admittedly. In a perfect world, we'd have a smaller sandbox and a proper utility weapon, but if 343i can pull this off, it'll be interesting, at the very least. And if we're finding the sandbox to be too bloated, we have the ability to make Forge maps with a more concise array of weapons, if 343i's open to listening to the competitive community on this matter.

 

I haven't been following H5 development much at all since the alpha/beta whatever it was.

 

When you have a pistol, BR, DMR, and a light rifle, these are four separate precision-based weapons. Players are always going to go for the gun that get them kills the quickest and easiest. To me, when I read these posts, it sounds a lot like Halo 2 SMG starts. Race to get the rifles...and start with crap.

 

They need (but wont) to eliminate all of these precision based weapons and maybe have two at the most in the game.

 

Halo CE's pistol worked because outside of the sniper rifle, it was the only precision-based weapon...so when you got into pistol fights, it was a fair fight because it came down purely to who had better aim, positioning, clip management, etc. Miss a lot of your shots, and you get caught in a reload, thus you usually die.

 

Again though, that worked in HCE. If you threw in another rifle...it would kill the HCE sandbox. To me that's what's happening in H5 when I read these statements.

 

What the hell does having a close to HCE pistol or better supposed to mean? Does that mean I can 3-shot people off spawn? Does it mean when I'm getting pinged by a rifle off spawn that I can legitimately return fire with my pistol and kill him? Or are we saying the pistol is merely a weapon that allows you to ping another rifle and gain cover?

 

I still think this all sounds like crappy H2 SMG starts. I shouldn't be punished just for dying.

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Not sure why ammo count matters in an argument, you never see people getting 3 perfect kills with a single BR clip.

No but you can keep challenging and shooting the corner someone is hiding behind. Having to stop, hide and reload constantly is terrible for gameplay.

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Not sure why ammo count matters in an argument, you never see people getting 3 perfect kills with a single BR clip.

 

What matters is if you see it in a tournament and then you see 25,000 sweaty viewers cream their panties. Potential to do so is always a key factor in big tourneys. 

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I haven't been following H5 development much at all since the alpha/beta whatever it was.

 

When you have a pistol, BR, DMR, and a light rifle, these are four separate precision-based weapons. Players are always going to go for the gun that get them kills the quickest and easiest. To me, when I read these posts, it sounds a lot like Halo 2 SMG starts. Race to get the rifles...and start with crap.

 

They need (but wont) to eliminate all of these precision based weapons and maybe have two at the most in the game.

 

Halo CE's pistol worked because outside of the sniper rifle, it was the only precision-based weapon...so when you got into pistol fights, it was a fair fight because it came down purely to who had better aim, positioning, clip management, etc. Miss a lot of your shots, and you get caught in a reload, thus you usually die.

 

Again though, that worked in HCE. If you threw in another rifle...it would kill the HCE sandbox. To me that's what's happening in H5 when I read these statements.

 

What the hell does having a close to HCE pistol or better supposed to mean? Does that mean I can 3-shot people off spawn? Does it mean when I'm getting pinged by a rifle off spawn that I can legitimately return fire with my pistol and kill him? Or are we saying the pistol is merely a weapon that allows you to ping another rifle and gain cover?

 

I still think this all sounds like crappy H2 SMG starts. I shouldn't be punished just for dying.

Exactly what I am worried about.

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Hitscan is only bad when you high magnetism and aim-assist. If these things were lowered SIGNIFICANTLY we would still be ok and we'd get the bonus of not having to worry about bad connections affecting bullets.

 

 

 

 

P.S. IM BACK FROM MY SUSPENSION AHAHAHHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA IM FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE 

You know who else said he was free?

 

UItron.

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If you can't kill 2 people in one clip on average there could be a big problem. Also having to reload in the middle of a fight would be way more common now if the clip is too small.

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If you can't kill 2 people in one clip on average there could be a big problem. Also having to reload in the middle of a fight would be way more common now if the clip is too small.

Completely agree. Having to reload after every fight just to be safe isn't fun and makes you feel weak individually. 

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I haven't been following H5 development much at all since the alpha/beta whatever it was.

 

When you have a pistol, BR, DMR, and a light rifle, these are four separate precision-based weapons. Players are always going to go for the gun that get them kills the quickest and easiest. To me, when I read these posts, it sounds a lot like Halo 2 SMG starts. Race to get the rifles...and start with crap.

 

They need (but wont) to eliminate all of these precision based weapons and maybe have two at the most in the game.

 

Halo CE's pistol worked because outside of the sniper rifle, it was the only precision-based weapon...so when you got into pistol fights, it was a fair fight because it came down purely to who had better aim, positioning, clip management, etc. Miss a lot of your shots, and you get caught in a reload, thus you usually die.

 

Again though, that worked in HCE. If you threw in another rifle...it would kill the HCE sandbox. To me that's what's happening in H5 when I read these statements.

 

What the hell does having a close to HCE pistol or better supposed to mean? Does that mean I can 3-shot people off spawn? Does it mean when I'm getting pinged by a rifle off spawn that I can legitimately return fire with my pistol and kill him? Or are we saying the pistol is merely a weapon that allows you to ping another rifle and gain cover?

 

I still think this all sounds like crappy H2 SMG starts. I shouldn't be punished just for dying.

Some have suggested putting only one type of rifle on each map. I believe Halo 5 will require at the longest a one second kill time starting precision weapon. Anyone arguing that the extra rifles are there to promote movement needs a history lesson--we use power weapons and powerups for that. The rifles don't take any more skill to use than the Magnum (in fact, they're easier), and they have few unique traits, so they add little to the sandbox. One of the reasons Halo 4 annoyed us was that everyone had small advantages and disadvantages that could not be easily predicted; Halo 5 is not much different, especially with dynamic timers for rifles.

 

As for the bolded text, I think it's fine to punish the player for dying, but it's not good to reward the player simply for staying alive. The players who are "on top" should have to work constantly and consistently to build and maintain advantages, not be able to sit on their heels and lose nothing. This is a key part of designing real-time strategy games, so that both winning and losing are engaging roles.

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No but you can keep challenging and shooting the corner someone is hiding behind. Having to stop, hide and reload constantly is terrible for gameplay.

Not the point I'm getting at. The main thing is that the potential for 3 full perfect kills in a row is negligible considering that 99.999% of the time, it won't happen. So I don't think losing that one extra shot which could result in another full kill is that big of a deal. Just an opinion though.

 

Also I don't think people stop, and hide and reload all the time. People tend to reload after each kill as long as there's not another opponent in front of them.

 

No but the potential is what matters. We need more of this...

 

Yeah I've never seen that happen once throughout the years I've played Halo, whether it's in-game, watching videos, streams or tournaments, but I'm glad a YouTube video of it exists. Makes it all less surprising that it's uploaded to this specific channel (FBWalshyFTW) because of how rare it is.

 

I mean sure it's sick, and sure if I was in charge of balancing weapons out, I'd make it so clip size for various weapons are always a multiple of the amount of shots it requires a perfect kill. But I just don't think it's a deal-breaker in this situation, seeing how it's about picking between the weapon that's harder to use vs. one that can result in more kills per clip.

 

Granted, all of this could be solved with a 4sk pistol, but I have no idea what sort of balancing 343 is up to.

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Not the point I'm getting at. The main thing is that the potential for 3 full perfect kills in a row is negligible considering that 99.999% of the time, it won't happen. So I don't think losing that one extra shot which could result in another full kill is that big of a deal. Just an opinion though.

 

Also I don't think people stop, and hide and reload all the time. People tend to reload after each kill as long as there's not another opponent in front of them.

 

Yeah I've never seen that happen once throughout the years I've played Halo, whether it's in-game, watching videos, streams or tournaments, but I'm glad a YouTube video of it exists. Makes it all less surprising that it's uploaded to this specific channel (FBWalshyFTW) because of how rare it is.

 

I mean sure it's sick, and sure if I was in charge of balancing weapons out, I'd make it so clip size for various weapons are always a multiple of the amount of shots it requires a perfect kill. But I just don't think it's a deal-breaker in this situation, seeing how it's about picking between the weapon that's harder to use vs. one that can result in more kills per clip.

 

Granted, all of this could be solved with a 4sk pistol, but I have no idea what sort of balancing 343 is up to.

Watch pros when they play they never reload after each individual kill. That would be a huge inconvenience. If the pistols clip isn't big enough to kill at least 3 people with perfect shots it will be a problem. The point isn't to kill 3 people at once, it's that with a large enough clip you can fight for a decent amount of time without havering to completely remove yourself from combat. If you think all these animations take you out of combat too much wait until you see a weapon that has to reload like crazy.

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Some have suggested putting only one type of rifle on each map. I believe Halo 5 will require at the longest a one second kill time starting precision weapon. Anyone arguing that the extra rifles are there to promote movement needs a history lesson--we use power weapons and powerups for that. The rifles don't take any more skill to use than the Magnum (in fact, they're easier), and they have few unique traits, so they add little to the sandbox. One of the reasons Halo 4 annoyed us was that everyone had small advantages and disadvantages that could not be easily predicted; Halo 5 is not much different, especially with dynamic timers for rifles.

 

As for the bolded text, I think it's fine to punish the player for dying, but it's not good to reward the player simply for staying alive. The players who are "on top" should have to work constantly and consistently to build and maintain advantages, not be able to sit on their heels and lose nothing. This is a key part of designing real-time strategy games, so that both winning and losing are engaging roles.

um that was because of loadouts? you want have to worry about someone who just spawned running up on you with a random rifle in h5 as the ones who will have rifles will also have power positioning. at that point you should expect a player to have swapped out his ar

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um that was because of loadouts? you want have to worry about someone who just spawned running up on you with a random rifle in h5 as the ones who will have rifles will also have power positioning. at that point you should expect a player to have swapped out his ar

No it's because each precision weapon offered better combat at weird specific ranges making the winner of a fight the person with the weapon better suited for that range.

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