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Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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Just because I like to play BTB doesn't mean I don't like playing competitively.

 

No but we have a good thing going here when productive discussion takes place rather than hyperbole.

 

Oh and it isn't defending 343 in the slightest, opinions just flow, and that is how things work in a functioning community.

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Did my interpretation of a Beyond skin. I am a noob but always fun to have something to try in PS.

 

OsH73WZ.png

with all proceeds going to teambeyond.net

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I'm looking forward to the more invasion-style Warzone... the "bosses" just looked like bullet sponges.

 

Hope they remake some classics for H5 BTB: Terminal, a Snowy Blood Gulch, Rat's Nest, Waterworks, & Perdition would be a solid classic BTB map pack, @@Sal1ent

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I think we should really try and press 343 to use those 8 different HUDs in multiplayer too

 

#solidarity

 

#rightguys

 

#right

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Page 1343, this is where 343 announces community skins :ghost: .



And no sprint :holmes: .

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Don't worry I read the rest of your post, but this is the part I wanted to focus on.

 

First off, I just don't think something like that is feasible. The amount of code required to make AIs travel across the map, navigate the complex terrain, react to enemies, taking damage, and other AI, would just be insane and complex to test and pull off. I could also see it cause performance issues.

 

Most of the AI is designed to roam a specific area or hold position until a threat enters its range, where they'll proceed to just do damage ways you'd expect. This is simple enough, and not hard particularly hard for the game to run multiple instances of at the same time.

 

But imagine if on top of that and 24 players, we had extra AI needing to be rendered (all with their own anims visible from a decent distance) and the code required to do the actions above? That's out of the question for something like the Xbox One. The worst part is, those team AIs would end up being cannon fodder for the most part. Marines die in like 2 BR shots tops. Think of how little it would add to the game. They wouldn't even be able to cross half of the map before being shot down.

 

I think it's also important to leave most of the work up to the players in a mode like this. You don't want the AI to carry their team to victory just because the dominant team wasn't focusing on them. 

 

The way I see this, how you're able to destroy team cores to victory is just a last resort, desperation tactic for when you fall behind in the game, and it's out of the question to consider working your way up through the scoreboard (or you're on the winning side and the other team is just getting smashed to bits and pieces so you choose to end it fast). You just take over bases and go all in for the core kill. In most cases, the games will end through score or time. It's not the usual go-to strategy to win in this mode.

 

Let me add this clarification before I finish this post, it might be difficult to balance in Halo's context or do at this point in development, but to say it can't work to me is wrong. It can work if this was designed around the concept originally instead of being an after thought. I didn't go into the complexities of why I feel it wouldn't work or be incredibly difficult to do, but I did state that I feel it wouldn't work at this point.

 

Unfortunately in the game I play, its a very very simple concept, but the characters depth is what provides the depth in gameplay. The maps are all symmetrical maps, with two lanes that AI continuously and equally push towards the other teams base. I can't think of a Halo map off the top of my head, but I think there was a DLC map in Halo 4 that really segmented the map into what seemed like 2 sides and 3 lanes to get there. AI waves could come out every 15-20 seconds to travel within these lanes, where teams are required to clear them. As the game starts, it's a group of easy to kill waves, but as time increases the waves get more difficult to kill.

 

AI's would travel the same path for both teams, and fight against each other. It's your job to escort them, kill the other AI and keep them advancing in order to apply pressure onto their base. It'd be more of a balanced MOBA/Shooter than a shooter. I still would rather be playing a pure arena version of Halo than any of this personally, but to say this couldn't work at all in any way is wrong in my opinion. It can't work in current warzone, but could absolutely work if this was the intention and designed from the ground up around this concept.

 

Two important things are that:

  1. AI would continue to get stronger throughout the game, making them less cannon fodder and more important to take out. Large maps and multiple waves will/can cause large groups of AI to gather up, meaning that if you push your wave into theirs, take theirs out, and push it again you can end up with your 2nd wave catching up to your first. That can cause performance issues indeed, but there are probably ways you can limit it.
  2. "Think of how little it would add to the game" "I think it's important to leave most of the work up to the players" I kinda feel the exact opposite with this. I feel it would add more to the game, or at least create a stable focus on gameplay rather than this organized chaos that Warzone seems to provide. Instead of players doing their own thing they're forced to work on an objective and work together to maintain multiple parts of the map. If somehow you feel that AI's being able to disable a cores shield strips the players of their work, I think that's a poor out-look. If it happens to you than your team was unsuccessful in defending your base and the objective, and instead must have been doing too much slaying or not paying attention.

I've played a game that works like this on a small scale, created by an indie developer with under 12 people on the team. The concept works just fine and can work on the scale of warzone in my opinion. There's already AI in the game, why not use them in a meaningful way rather than purely an EXP system that grants you weapons n stuff. That can still happen, but at the same time you're working towards the objective.

 

Issues may be the X1's performance, that the maps might suffer from being designed around this concept (asymmetrical maps don't work well) and that AI will have to be balanced in a meaningful manner.

 

Cannon fodder can still exist, but there needs to be an AI presence in the lanes that are strong enough to require player focus. If it was continuous waves of grunts, I can see the issue, but if towards the end of the game we had 3 elites and 2 hunters pushing out in the waves that would be very difficult in my opinion to maintain both lane and map control. I wouldn't exactly say players would have set roles since there are no classes, but I could see weapon and vehicle purchases being a bit more based on what action you'll take. In a game like DoTa, players have to escort AI in a similar manner. Those players aren't stripped of any power in doing so, but instead organize their talents to get the objective done.

 

To be honest I find that it will take away some of the freedom of playing the game.. meaning the guy who wants to just buy a sniper and camp will be hurting his team way more than it would in current warzone, where it seems like slaying is still the priority. In return it creates consistency and forces teamwork around an objective. I'm not a big fan of FORCED teamwork in a game, but that's usually a result of poor mechanics.

 

 

Much like Halo 5 in general, I would much rather it be a standalone game rather than a Halo title. This can't be done in Warzone currently, but again I don't see how this concept is impossible. An AAA developer can surely make a larger scale game than what this indie dev had done. 

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One thing that annoyed the crap out of me in the single player part of E3: The "you're in a helmet!"

 

Why not do it the way the new DOOM does it with you having to sync the helmet when you put it on and after that you only see the UI:

 

at the 2:22 mark.

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On Monday I mentioned to a handful of 343 guys that I "heard" a rumor that there was going to be a Halo 5 Championship event similar to Call of Duty's yearly $1mill event / H4GC.

 

 

Response:  "Thats interesting" with some grins on their faces.  So you know, take that as you will. 

 

 

 

 

I also spoke with Tim Longo (Creative director at 343) for a while, had a really good convo with him, and I may have convinced him to start posting here haha, we will see though. Really cool guy.

 

Nothing draws in players or gets Pros excited than money.

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Obviously UT4 will... not sure how this point relates to visuals

 

If you dont see how the H2 Midship pic is superior for competitive gaming and replay-ability compared to the H5 Truth picture, there is no hope for you to understand why modern FPS suck compared to the classics.

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I really hope Warzone draws a huge fan base and helps grow Halo as a whole again. I don't think Arena has the ability to do that right away but if Halo gets big again, a lot of Halo fans will watch HCS events simply because it's Halo and on 343's twitch. They will get intrigued, see that they can make money playing Halo, and play HCS. Literally this exact thing happened with Black Ops 2. When the game came out, no one played league play. After cod champs and some more tournaments, league play had around 20k people playing it.

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If you dont see how the H2 Midship pic is superior for competitive gaming and replay-ability compared to the H5 Truth picture, there is no hope for you to understand why modern FPS suck compared to the classics.

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Finally found some DMR footage around the 7:57 mark of this video: 

 

9 frames per shot, so same ROF as Magnum, but 5sk. 1.5 +- .08 perfect kill time. Also, they've added one bullet to the mag, so back to 15, like in Reach.

 

In terms of H5 precision kill times, from fastest to shortest: Pistol, Cov. Carbine, BR, DMR. 

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Probably wasn't going to buy Halo 5, but then I saw Warzone. No joke, me and a buddy of mine talked about a possible gametype like that since early Halo 3 days. We figured it was a plausible evolution of BTB. He hasn't bought a Halo game in years, but he freaked out when I told him.

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No BTB at launch?

 

Once again proving that they are a shitty company incapable of producing a decent game.

 

Yeah not too happy about that. The silver lining though is that the map count for 4v4 arena is probably gonna be pretty high; I just can't see there being more than like 4 warzone maps given their size and all that they have to support. If nothing else at least map DLC is free.

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In terms of H5 precision kill times, from fastest to shortest: Pistol, Cov. Carbine, BR, DMR. 

 

Finally we get a Halo game that does this right.

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Finally found some DMR footage around the 7:57 mark of this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyzBii0OUWw

 

9 frames per shot, so same ROF as Magnum, but 5sk. 1.5 +- .08 perfect kill time. Also, they've added one bullet to the mag, so back to 15, like in Reach.

 

In terms of H5 precision kill times, from fastest to shortest: Pistol, Cov. Carbine, BR, DMR.

 

they should be faster, the beta had kill times down perfectly. Are you compensating for the lack of 60 fops when calculating these btw? Conclusions based off of what we're seeing in 30 fps could be wrong.

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Probably wasn't going to buy Halo 5, but then I saw Warzone. No joke, me and a buddy of mine talked about a possible gametype like that since early Halo 3 days. We figured it was a plausible evolution of BTB. He hasn't bought a Halo game in years, but he freaked out when I told him.

 

The more I hear about WarZone the more I like. Finally, something that makes up for a lack of Reach's invasion. 

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If you dont see how the H2 Midship pic is superior for competitive gaming and replay-ability compared to the H5 Truth picture, there is no hope for you to understand why modern FPS suck compared to the classics.

 

Didn't you call H3 a arena shooter at one point? Lmao

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why is the fact that loadouts aren't returning not clear on this forum?

 

Because Arena multiplayer isn't the whole H5G Multiplayer? There are several hints towards a Battlefield Halo hybrid BTB mode being revealed at E3

 

@

 

REKT

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YES!!, I think it would be great to have a similar mechanism that CS GO have.

.

.

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I mean, Official skins created and approved by 343 and the community

Skins with quality levels, prices, wear level.

 

Thanks,

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If you dont see how the H2 Midship pic is superior for competitive gaming and replay-ability compared to the H5 Truth picture, there is no hope for you to understand why modern FPS suck compared to the classics.

Yeah, Halo 2 is closer to what people would expect out of an arena shooter, but it doesn't and never will have Forge, Theater, Spectator Mode, customization, 12v12, has a trash sandbox and is lacking a lot of other features I could keep listing. Its meta is also 10 years old and stagnant. Where do we go from here?

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