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Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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@@Sal1ent will there be a playlist with all of the abilities toggled off at launch? Sorta like a throwback playlist in Aw. Gonna suck if the only way to play like that is in customs.

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@@Sal1ent

 

I'm not much of a competitive player, so I want to ask a Forge question instead.

 

Is scripting still a feature, or has it been dropped in the jump between H2A and H5?

 

If it's still in, are we still limited to 64 channels and awkward timers that go from 0-100 and 156-255 seconds?

 

(On a somewhat related note, it's scary how similar our responses to the non-regenerating shields and health debate are.)

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Heya - I've been lurking around but haven't had time to post in a few weeks with E3 looming.

 

 

For me, this erodes what is the essence of Halo: the dance or the duel. A big part of what makes Halo multiplayer special is the fact that, unlike other shooters, you can react to an enemy's attack and turn the tables using superior skill.

 

 

Sticking to the "duel" example because its a good one, does forcing a a proverbial swordsman to drop their weapon to move fluently around his Arena and counter his opponent moves also not break the fluidity and essence of Halo combat? Is dropping your sword(or gun) and running away also not an exploitable move in this context that will inevitably break the flow and slow combat to a halt among those who have mastered this move prolonging battles and encouraging stand-offish play?

 

I am sorry but I fail to see looking at recent Halo titles and Halo 5 in particular how the essence of Arena Halo combat has been preserved like you say it has. The essence of this style of combat has only been made impure and its ageless formula eroded by the new mechanics wrongly forced into the formula of Halo despite clear evidence to the developers that their new direction has failed to hit with any identifiable audience Halo or otherwise. A shame too, because I really see the potential in the new things Halo 5 tries to do like with enhancing Spartan mobility, I just think its poorly executed in any sense of the essence of "Arena Halo" or "classic Halo" as many call it.

 

To summarize my feelings on Halo's evolution as a competitive MP title: It hasn't evolved in any significant competitive standard since arguably the first or second one barring minor Sandbox additions because the developers have been insistent on building a new "breed" of Halo to appeal to a more contemporary audience(primarily by changing core shooting+movement mechanics), rather than looking for a natural evolution of its map design and game mechanics predominantly built on Arena shooter fundamentals. In a sense, Halo has been sold out and never truly respected by its creators.

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Sticking to the "duel" example because its a good one, does forcing a a proverbial swordsman to drop their weapon to move fluently around his Arena and counter his opponent moves also not break the fluidity and essence of Halo combat? Is dropping your sword(or gun) and running away also not an exploitable move in this context that will inevitably break the flow and slow combat to a halt among those who have mastered this move prolonging battles and encouraging stand-offish play?

 

I am sorry but I fail to see looking at recent Halo titles and Halo 5 in particular how the essence of Arena Halo combat has been preserved like you say it has. The essence of this style of combat has only been made impure and its ageless formula eroded by the new mechanics wrongly forced into the formula of Halo despite clear evidence to the developers that their new direction has failed to hit with any identifiable audience Halo or otherwise. A shame too, because I really see the potential in the new things Halo 5 tries to do like with enhancing Spartan mobility, I just think its poorly executed in any sense of the essence of "Arena Halo" or "classic Halo" as many call it.

 

To summarize my feelings on Halo's evolution as a competitive MP title: It hasn't evolved in any significant competitive standard since arguably the first or second one barring minor Sandbox additions because the developers have been insistent on building a new "breed" of Halo to appeal to a more contemporary audience(primarily by changing core shooting+movement mechanics), rather than looking for a natural evolution of its map design and game mechanics predominantly built on Arena shooter fundamentals. In a sense, Halo has been sold out and never truly respected by its creators.

this is basically how I see it, the name of the game lately has been change instead of evolve since reach. A lot of what's in h5 has potential to be great if they are worked on, such as the whole thruster proposal which we've been talking about for ages, we could link slide to thruster and allow it to be used in multiple direction other than forwards, ground pound could have a little longer of a minimum charge up rate, much more sensitivity, a smaller reticule(or none at all), but greater speed and blast radius, making it more powerful but harder to use. Hell even clamber could be beneficial if we have power jumps that can't be clambered, and allow players to shoot and clamber from any direction, preserving skill, and encouraging vertical combat. It's really only sprint, hover and charge that bring nothing that could benefit the game to the table.

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I second this. There WILL be enough players at launch so that a few extra playlists can be adequately populated. If you want players to stick with your game, give them a chance to find something they like. It's important not to make the playlists too homegenous (for example, Infinity drops in almost every gametype at the launch of Halo 4), or else players will assume the game has no potential. Even if an extra playlist is lacking sufficient numbers to run properly, players that enjoy it will have found some reason to stay and contribute to the community. The classics mentioned appeal to a wide range of players, most of whom will only be there at the game's launch unless something catches their attention.

 

Jesus christ, throw a few more buzzwords around. Bill Plaschke called, he wants his schtick back.

 

No, there will not be enough people around on day one for 'a few extra playlists'. That entire player pool has to go to the core playlists to keep the matches coming for everyone. The majority supercede the 12 people that want to play team stickies. Sorry.

 

There's a brand new campaign with a story that's already being hyped through the roof, and a completely reinvented multiplayer, with the 'arena' component being just one part of it. There's plenty for people to explore and digest on day one, without having to break out stale bullshit like action sack or team snipers so RyanW and cola mola can have XTRA PLAYLISTS YAYYYY. If people are already getting bored of the core game experience on day one, why would you think that team snipers or binary rifle speedflag will save the experience for them and make them "stay and contribute to the community" (holy shit, dude)?

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Jesus christ, throw a few more buzzwords around. Bill Plaschke called, he wants his schtick back.

 

No, there will not be enough people around on day one for 'a few extra playlists'. That entire player pool has to go to the core playlists to keep the matches coming for everyone. The majority supercede the 12 people that want to play team stickies. Sorry.

 

There's a brand new campaign with a story that's already being hyped through the roof, and a completely reinvented multiplayer, with the 'arena' component being just one part of it. There's plenty for people to explore and digest on day one, without having to break out stale bullshit like action sack or team snipers so RyanW and cola mola can have XTRA PLAYLISTS YAYYYY. If people are already getting bored of the core game experience on day one, why would you think that team snipers or binary rifle speedflag will save the experience for them and make them "stay and contribute to the community" (holy shit, dude)?

No one's talking about anything ridiculous. But when a Halo game launches without Doubles, Snipers, Objective, Swat, all things that could be considered staples to the franchise up until H4, there's an issue. Maybe if you can't be mature about this you shouldn't post.

 

And the fact that I jumped on Reach last weekend, and found a game in the MLG playlist that had LESS THAN 100 PEOPLE in under twenty seconds, tells me you can have 20 playlists and they'd all be plenty populated. Especially with all the hype surrounding H5 right now, I have no doubt it'll become the best selling Xbox game. Do you understand how the matchmaking system works? Modern Warfare 2 must've had 25 playlists at one point and it never took more than a few seconds to find a match.

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@@Sal1ent The "hide and peek" method of Halo duels stems from map design. Play Halo 1 for a few games and you'll see that the layered, open maps combined with high lethality on the spawning weapons creates fast paced, fair gameplay. The short weapon/power up spawn times massively change this as well.

 

Please consider low spawn times on H5 for powerups and less "complex" map geometry and you'll find the game speeds up massu as a natural result instead of Sprint thruster adding a "forced pace".

 

Thanks for popping by again :)

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No one's talking about anything ridiculous. But when a Halo game launches without Doubles, Snipers, Objective, Swat, all things that could be considered staples to the franchise up until H4, there's an issue. Maybe if you can't be mature about this you shouldn't post.

 

And the fact that I jumped on Reach last weekend, and found a game in the MLG playlist that had LESS THAN 100 PEOPLE in under twenty seconds, tells me you can have 20 playlists and they'd all be plenty populated. Especially with all the hype surrounding H5 right now, I have no doubt it'll become the best selling Xbox game. Do you understand how the matchmaking system works? Modern Warfare 2 must've had 25 playlists at one point and it never took more than a few seconds to find a match.

 

Hey guess what? Halo isn't Modern Warfare 2. I'll pause and let that sink in for a moment.

 

Okay, now, allow me to let you in on ANOTHER huge revelation, this time about Reach matchmaking: Reach did not factor party size, skill level, or service record whatsoever in its matchmaking, outside of arena. Of course matches come quickly, the system throws you into games with literally the first fucking people it finds, whether its a team of four matchmaking warriors from Ireland or some eskimo in northern Canada who has literally never played the game before in his life. And, as a result, the quality of the typical game was crapdick. You didn't know that about a game that has been out for five years and was fucking scrutinized to death on MLG forums and pretty much every other Halo discussion site, and you have the fucking nerve to ask ME if I know how the matchmaking system works? Dear god. This place is getting ridiculous.

 

Anyway, that was Reach's system. This may come as yet another big surprise to you, but different games have different matchmaking systems (dun-dun-DUNNNN). If Halo 5 just copy-pasted Reach's system, then yeah, it could support a few extra playlists at launch. But it's not, for a litany of reasons, one of which being that 343 has gone well out of their way to brand Halo 5 as a competitive, arena-focused game (not a party game, like Reach), and having a ton of lopsided matches brought about by who-gives-a-shit matching would completely undermine that. Halo 5's beta search times were horrendous, even in week one, with everyone searching in only one playlist. One. We don't know where those times are now, but they have to be reduced to a tiny fraction of what they were to be acceptable for launch. And yet, you people want to multiply the amount of playlists (divide the player pool) at launch by as much as 14 (or fucking 20 in your case), just so you can fucking play swat or binary rifle fiesta, while the total player base at a given time for launch day would be multiplying by... a lot less than 14? GOOD FUCKING LUCK WITH THAT. Oh, and lest I forget, searching hasn't exactly been a picnic in 343's games, even the ones in which it was advertised to be incredible. It's always something with them. So even if Josh or Frank O'Connor or whoever comes on here sometime before launch and gushes about how amazing the search times are, you'd be insane to take it at face value.

 

There hasn't been a Halo game yet that has launched with snipers and swat. There's no absolutely no precedent for launching with those. Doubles is not an essential playlist, if only because its plain to see that Halo 5 wasn't at all designed with 2v2 in mind. It can wait. I don't know where in the hell you're getting that launch-without-objective thing from.

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After coming off a terrible game that had an incredibly low population, and another game that didn't even fucking work, how many people do you think will be willing to wait a month for their favorite playlist to be released?

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I can't wait for the next HUNTtheTRUTH![Change of mood]

I've been waiting all week for this next episode. Hoping something big will drop.

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I can't wait for the next HUNTtheTRUTH![Change of mood]

Oh man, I forgot it was Hunt the Truth night tonight! I wonder if we're going to find out what's happening in the outer colonies.

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This is one of the biggest challenges as a developer, really. Every player is going to have a different set of experiences they love and care about from past Halos. In aggregate, that list is unmanageably large. Not just from the perspective of building them all for each game (since everything needs to be rebuilt, retuned and rebalanced for a new engine), but simply the overload of information (too many choices) and population density (not enough players in the smaller playlists to support quality play). That's why you see rotation of content in matchmaking and why we are focusing on a polished core set of game types for Halo 5. I would rather deliver a core set of experiences at launch that are truly awesome than a vast grab bag of experiences that feel half baked. They key of course is to make sure that we have the right core set. We'll be sharing more details about this closer to launch.

 

 

How about adding a server browser for custom games with customizable room names as well? I.e. someone would make a dedicated "Grifball 24/7" server, or what have you. It'd effectively make all playlists available at all times, albeit in smaller quantity. Wouldn't replace the core matchmaking but be an addition to it.

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There's plenty for people to explore and digest on day one, without having to break out stale bullshit like action sack or team snipers so RyanW and cola mola can have XTRA PLAYLISTS YAYYYY. 

I'll bite - how do you know coca mola?

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Jesus christ, throw a few more buzzwords around. Bill Plaschke called, he wants his schtick back.

 

No, there will not be enough people around on day one for 'a few extra playlists'. That entire player pool has to go to the core playlists to keep the matches coming for everyone. The majority supercede the 12 people that want to play team stickies. Sorry.

 

There's a brand new campaign with a story that's already being hyped through the roof, and a completely reinvented multiplayer, with the 'arena' component being just one part of it. There's plenty for people to explore and digest on day one, without having to break out stale bullshit like action sack or team snipers so RyanW and cola mola can have XTRA PLAYLISTS YAYYYY. If people are already getting bored of the core game experience on day one, why would you think that team snipers or binary rifle speedflag will save the experience for them and make them "stay and contribute to the community" (holy shit, dude)?

I would rather have them sooner than later to give newcomers the chance to play everything Halo has to offer. What's so bad with having the following:

 

-Team Slayer

-Team Objective

-Squad

-Rumble Pit

-BTB

-HCS

-Doubles

-Multi Team

-SWAT

-Snipers

-Infection

 

How is something like that bad at launch when there's going to be hundreds of thousands of people there playing? Honestly it could be completely different by the end of this summer when we learn about the rest of the multiplayer with the way 343 has been talking about how Arena is just one portion of the experience. 

 

Why is it so bad to give everyone this kind of variety but it's not bad to wait and give it to small portion of the population a month+ after launch? We've tested these playlists and gametypes at launch since Halo 3. They've always been a success. We don't have to continue beating a dead horse and wait for these playlists.

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There hasn't been a Halo game yet that has launched with snipers and swat. There's no absolutely no precedent for launching with those.

There's also very little precedent for launching with BR starts. That doesn't mean we should be advocating AR starts at launch.

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I would rather have them sooner than later to give newcomers the chance to play everything Halo has to offer. What's so bad with having the following:

 

-Team Slayer

-Team Objective

-Squad

-Rumble Pit

-BTB

-HCS

-Doubles

-Multi Team

-SWAT

-Snipers

-Infection

 

How is something like that bad at launch when there's going to be hundreds of thousands of people there playing? Honestly it could be completely different by the end of this summer when we learn about the rest of the multiplayer with the way 343 has been talking about how Arena is just one portion of the experience. 

 

Why is it so bad to give everyone this kind of variety but it's not bad to wait and give it to small portion of the population a month+ after launch? We've tested these playlists and gametypes at launch since Halo 3. They've always been a success. We don't have to continue beating a dead horse and wait for these playlists.

Isn't that just the playlist lineup we always end up with more or less? Oh, right. Haha. We can't start with those you know. Why? Its a secret. - Bungie/343

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I would rather have them sooner than later to give newcomers the chance to play everything Halo has to offer. What's so bad with having the following:

 

-Team Slayer

-Team Objective

-Squad

-Rumble Pit

-BTB

-HCS

-Doubles

-Multi Team

-SWAT

-Snipers

-Infection

 

How is something like that bad at launch when there's going to be hundreds of thousands of people there playing? Honestly it could be completely different by the end of this summer when we learn about the rest of the multiplayer with the way 343 has been talking about how Arena is just one portion of the experience.

They've hinted at multiple different game types. Honestly with they way they've balanced the game, I'd be happy with this standard lineup. We're in for a treat friends, and with the collectable gear and stuff it's going to bring a whole new population.

 

I get the vibe that we have only been talking about the tip of he proverbial iceberg. The meat is still left to be uncovered.

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Dude if reading Halo forums is getting you this upset go take a nap or something, just chill. 

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