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Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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I think this is smart in a business sense, but it won't help competitive Halo. To the casual it'd be seen as way more epic and it'd be hard to get anyone to convert back to the old style. It's splitting the game more than ever before. Leaving the ranked playlists to just already comp. players is bad.

 

I disagree, I think it's more about culture. If they could paint the perception that the Arena area is for people who are "good" but not 5 sweat-band wearing MLG xXxGhostfacedkillaXxX's then it'd have a positive effect. As in, they'd be like "hey I feel like I'm ok at this, maybe I'll try playing the arena which is where your skill are "put to the test".

 

So instead of "Casual" and "omfg mlg elite tryhard" they have "Social" and "Competitive".

 

Sounds good in theory, but it's about perception.

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The one thing I want to see more than anything in Halo 5 is a XP system like Halo 3s.

 

I'm so sick of games basing "levels" on how much you play. Sr130 or whatever in Halo 4 just meant you played a lot.

 

Halo 3 did one thing right and it was the XP system. Wins + XP was such a good system, it was a perfect combo of skill plus how much you play.

 

I want to see a overall level like a a 5 star general or a brigadier, and have that same system built into each playlist as well.

 

And one more thing, bring back the fuckin veto system. People have been asking for it since Reach launched.

 

I could have almost played Halo 4 two weeks after launch if it had a level system like Halo 3s.

Yeah, and add playlist EXP ranks too.

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I never understood why there were people who disliked the veto system. It was the only thing stopping people from voting for the exact same map again and again and again. I can barely remember what maps Halo 4 had other than Haven and Adrift.

 

"Ehh, I don't feel like playing The Pit today..."

*Valhalla AR's*

 

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

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I'd love a ranked btb but I wouldn't be mad if they didn't have it. I have always been a btb player who goes in trying to win and not just mess around. I never liked 6v6,it's no btb, so saying/thinking it would appease the competitive btb players is not accurate. I, and others I'm sure, don't even accept mcc 7v7 as btb. When youve played it enough, you notice just how substantial a change missing the 1 extra teammate is

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You need to chill if you want an actual discussion.

 

Social Slayer was 5v5, but it was also using the same gametypes. You proposed social skirmish, which I'm presuming meant slayer +objective, which is completely different (social slayer was also the most populated playlist, but that isnt really important).

 

Maybe in like 2012 or something, but in Halo 3's prime Team Slayer pretty much always had the higher (highest) population count.

 

Im guessing you don't understand what BTB is like At a relatively high level. There is enough of an interest to warrant a ranked Playlist I think. If you're concerned about population, I sure as hell hope you aren't wanting a HCS Playlist - MLG always had a low population, and a HCS Playlist would probably be the same.

 

What does that tell you about the prospects of ranked BTB? MLG and this place have always been incredibly active, yet the playlist population is still low and usually in last place among all existing playlists. Yet the population of fucking BTBnet is enough to warrant a ranked BTB playlist? What?

 

I only really want a HCS playlist so it can serve as a ranked mostly-objective playlist while still having something in the playlist hopper that actually markets the HCS.

 

Action Sack is relatively popular, so you can't cut that unless youre adding a custom games browser, which isn't happening.

 

You didn't want a 2v2 Playlist at launch. Why? How does adding one later when the game has a lowe population benefit anyone?

 

The absolute best way I can think of to ENSURE that the game has a low population is to have a bungload of frivolous/redundant playlists out on day one to divy up the population and bloat everyone's search times. The name of the game in week one (or even month one) is get people into as many games you possibly can. Are you actually trying to tell me that people will simply refuse to play Halo 5 if it doesn't have day one playlists for action sack/2v2/snipers? Sure, some random dickhead somewhere might leave if he doesn't have his precious snipers on day one, but fuck him. Can't accomodate everyone. Go to customs.

 

Action sack is ridiculous; actual custom games (the silly ones, like that speed slide from Reach) are ten times more enjoyable than the stupid-ass shit they put in there, like team stickies or whatever. Has Action sack ever even been a launch playlist? I don't think it has, I'm pretty sure it always get added later on.

 

As for 2v2, what reason is there to have a 2v2 playlist out of the gate? Just for the sake of having it? No sale. Add it later.

 

Snipers and Swat are something that I don't think should be there, but they have a decent sized following, so it doesn't make sense to remove them.

 

Halo 3s playlists have spoilt us - everyone expects their favourite Playlist to be there at launch. Are my playlists what we need? I'm not sure, but I do know that people would be annoyed with only 8 playlists at launch.

 

Reach only had 6 playlists at launch that I can recall (slayer, ffa, BTB, multi-team, doubles arena, 4v4 arena). Maybe there was some skirmish/objective thing in there too, I don't remember. Halo 4 had ten, but that was only because they insisted on having separate playlists for CTF, oddball, and KOTH. Halo 3 is now three main titles ago, so I don't know the hell it's spoiling people now. Regardless, I'm pretty sure it didn't have 14 or whatever playlists at launch.

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Ranked 6v6 would be a good compromise for those who want ranks with vehicles, and more objective than normal.

 

My playlists:

 

Ranked:

Team Doubles (if this even works with H5 mechanics)

Team Slayer 4v4

Halo Championship Series

6v6 skirmish/obj./btb

Lone Wolves (6 people)

Breakout

Team Snipers

 

Unranked:

8v8 BTB

Rumble Pit (8 people)

Multi-Team

SWAT

Action Sack

Infection

This is perfect. A game like halo 5 should have no issue with this many playlists, I don't know why so many people are insistent against it. We've never had a problem with this until Halo 4.

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Launch populations are the highest... why not have the most playlists when there are the most people? Launch populations should be able to easily sustain 13-15 playlists. And I'm willing to bet that Halo 5 won't have as severe a population drop as Halo 4. 

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Launch populations are the highest... why not have the most playlists when there are the most people? Launch populations should be able to easily sustain 13-15 playlists. And I'm willing to bet that Halo 5 won't have as severe a population drop as Halo 4. 

 

Because it's unnecessary? Because it's much more important to showcase the core of the new game during the launch period and have people experience a steady stream of matches with an absolutely minimal waiting period? People's attention spans aren't getting longer, they're getting shorter. The most effective way to get people to stop playing your game and go play something else is for the search times to be just a little too long. Again, no one important is going to turn around and go back to Gamestop to trade the game in because fucking action sack isn't there on day one.

 

People want more shit after launch? Make them ask for it. If they have to ask for something and/or create a small movement to get it in, they'll appreciate it more. HEAVEN FORBID people put some fucking effort into their experience, right?

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"Ehh, I don't feel like playing The Pit today..."

*Valhalla AR's*

 

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

A veto system is good in the hands of someone who can design a proper playlist... just too bad that's not the case of the devs.

 

Bungie kept throwing shit at us like automatic starts on BTB maps, objective in FFA, team "duals", etc.

 

343 decided to innovate with VIP in doubles, Regicide in FFA (AKA let's punish the best), MORE automatic starts on BTB maps after Bungie admitting it was dumb, and so much more.

 

We're pushed to avoid diversity because their idea of diversity is flawed by design.

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Because it's unnecessary? Because it's much more important to showcase the core of the new game during the launch period and have people experience a steady stream of matches with an absolutely minimal waiting period? People's attention spans aren't getting longer, they're getting shorter. The most effective way to get people to stop playing your game and go play something else is for the search times to be just a little too long. Again, no one important is going to turn around and go back to Gamestop to trade the game in because fucking action sack isn't there on day one.

 

People want more shit after launch? Make them ask for it. If they have to ask for something and/or create a small movement to get it in, they'll appreciate it more. HEAVEN FORBID people put some fucking effort into their experience, right?

 

Are you capable of posting without swearing and/or getting angry? 

 

People are far more likely to give up on a game because it isn't varied enough than to give up because search times take an extra 20 seconds at most.

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Social Slayer has almost always been the most popular, but that isn't even relevant.

 

You can't just say "you don't need a playlist, go play customs", especially when the play lists you want to remove are ones that are relatively popular. Should we just stick HCS into custom games?

 

Do you remember Halo 4s launch? A lot of people complained about the lack of a 2v2 Playlist at launch. A lot of people complained about snipers being a rotational playlist. Yeah, we have too many playlists and some need to be cut, but you're wanting to get rid of some of the more popular ones, which makes absolutely no sense.

 

It's pretty obvious how Halo 3 spoilt us. You go into the matchmaking lobby and you can play whatever the hell you want. People expect that same variety to remain, no matter how unrealistic it actually is.

 

Because it's unnecessary? Because it's much more important to showcase the core of the new game during the launch period and have people experience a steady stream of matches with an absolutely minimal waiting period? People's attention spans aren't getting longer, they're getting shorter. The most effective way to get people to stop playing your game and go play something else is for the search times to be just a little too long. Again, no one important is going to turn around and go back to Gamestop to trade the game in because fucking action sack isn't there on day one.

 

People want more shit after launch? Make them ask for it. If they have to ask for something and/or create a small movement to get it in, they'll appreciate it more. HEAVEN FORBID people put some fucking effort into their experience, right?

Somyou want less playlists at launch, but more after so matchmaking is dead outside of a handful of playlists 6 months after launch?

 

Not having action sack isn't going to make anyone return the game, but it will make that next big title seem more appealing. Adding what people want after they've already left the game is dumb.

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Ranked 6v6 would be a good compromise for those who want ranks with vehicles, and more objective than normal. 

 

My playlists: 

 

Ranked:

Team Doubles (if this even works with H5 mechanics)

Team Slayer 4v4

Halo Championship Series

6v6 skirmish/obj./btb

Lone Wolves (6 people)

Breakout

Team Snipers

 

Unranked:

8v8 BTB

Rumble Pit (8 people)

Multi-Team

SWAT

Action Sack

Infection

This seems ideal for a long-term playlist goal, but not so much at launch. The problem with this is that four different ranked playlists offer the same format (4v4) and therefore undermine one another's population. Developers will always try to force players to grind through a limited amount of playlists to create the "base" for competitive and accurate skill-based matches. A few weeks in, when people have made their way to the high-end of ranks, then it can be considered to add another playlist (which is a slow and progressive process as well).

 

Social can get away with having more varied playlists, but even then, playlists should also avoid to undermine the ranked experience until a lot of people have achieved various skill levels in ranked. For instance, we don't need Rumble Pit for a while when there's a fresh Lone Wolves with no one ranked in it. They'll offer the same exact experience but with the minor difference of two players. We don't need Breakout because it can (and should) be introduced as an objective mode in something else -- that is, if it didn't have its unique shield system. We could also remove HCS until solid settings are figured out (I hope pros will live after spending some time in the default game), same with Squad Battle and snipers because this is all stuff customs can offer to dedicated people until the foundations of ranked are laid out.

 

Also both Action Sack and Infection tend to count on Forged maps to deliver an optimal experience. These should not be rushed until the settings are prepared (similar to HCS). 

 

That's the opinion I have on this. Like I said, long-term, it's a good design, but short term (at launch) it doesn't need this much variety.

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Are you capable of posting without swearing and/or getting angry? 

 

Sure I am, you just have to not say dumb things first.

 

People are far more likely to give up on a game because it isn't varied enough than to give up because search times take an extra 20 seconds at most.

 

 

Many months into its tenure, maybe. During the launch period? No.

 

I'm starting to think that you're just incapable of placing yourself into the mind of a casual (or newcomer) to the Halo franchise, and/or you just don't know how people work. One individual search period that takes an extra 20 seconds isn't the end of the world. But will it make a difference over time if it's a regular thing? Abso-fucking-lutely. Especially if they're coming from CoD.

 

The amount of people that you will lose because of action sack or snipers not being there on day one (you'll probably be able to count them on both hands), is nothing compared to the amount that will be lost because of playlist dilution and the resulting effect of not getting people into matches quickly enough. Keep yammering on about how that doesn't matter and how it's too small to make a difference, though; it makes me glad that you're not in charge.

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Social Slayer has almost always been the most popular, but that isn't even relevant.

 

You can't just say "you don't need a playlist, go play customs", especially when the play lists you want to remove are ones that are relatively popular. Should we just stick HCS into custom games?

 

If this were still the MLG days, I'd say yes. But the fact that 343 has gone out of their way to make HCS a thing means that there's almost no way it doesn't have a playlist out of the gate. Might as well have it serve as the defacto ranked objective playlist.

 

Do you remember Halo 4s launch? A lot of people complained about the lack of a 2v2 Playlist at launch. A lot of people complained about snipers being a rotational playlist. Yeah, we have too many playlists and some need to be cut, but you're wanting to get rid of some of the more popular ones, which makes absolutely no sense.

 

They got them post-launch in Halo 4, why can't they get them post-launch now?

 

It's pretty obvious how Halo 3 spoilt us. You go into the matchmaking lobby and you can play whatever the hell you want. People expect that same variety to remain, no matter how unrealistic it actually is.

 

People went from a bunch of playlists at the end of Halo 3 to only six on Reach's launch day. They went from 20-something playlists at the end of Reach to only ten (lol, 'only') on Halo 4's launch day. Why are they just now going to decide that starting off with a small set of playlists on launch day is unacceptable?

 

Somyou want less playlists at launch, but more after so matchmaking is dead outside of a handful of playlists 6 months after launch?

 

Not having action sack isn't going to make anyone return the game, but it will make that next big title seem more appealing. Adding what people want after they've already left the game is dumb.

 

What in the world are you talking about? The only people who even know what Action Sack is are people like WolfTimmy99 from Waypoint.

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Sure I am, you just have to not say dumb things first.

 

 

Many months into its tenure, maybe. During the launch period? No.

 

I'm starting to think that you're just incapable of placing yourself into the mind of a casual (or newcomer) to the Halo franchise, and/or you just don't know how people work. One individual search period that takes an extra 20 seconds isn't the end of the world. But will it make a difference over time if it's a regular thing? Abso-fucking-lutely. Especially if they're coming from CoD.

 

The amount of people that you will lose because of action sack or snipers not being there on day one (you'll probably be able to count them on both hands), is nothing compared to the amount that will be lost because of playlist dilution and the resulting effect of not getting people into matches quickly enough. Keep yammering on about how that doesn't matter and how it's too small to make a difference, though; it makes me glad that you're not in charge.

I'm not sure you understand some basic concepts of debating. Hint: One of them is that you don't swear/shout at anyone who disagrees with you.

 

Anyway, personally I think you're completely off base.

 

A casual (or any other player for that matter) is far more likely to notice the lack of Snipers, SWAT and doubles than an increase in search times by 5-10 seconds.

 

And honestly, the claim that there will even be a search time increase is dubious at best. At launch this game is going to have 100s of thousands of players. None of the playlists are going to have a population issue. What might cause a population drop is if players perceive the game to lack content/variety. For example due to the lack SWAT, doubles and Team Snipers etc.

 

Why are they just now going to decide that starting off with a small set of playlists on launch day is unacceptable?

The lack of playlists at launch has always been unacceptable. There's a reason why everyone has always complained about the lack of certain playlists until they're eventually added in.

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I disagree, I think it's more about culture. If they could paint the perception that the Arena area is for people who are "good" but not 5 sweat-band wearing MLG xXxGhostfacedkillaXxX's then it'd have a positive effect. As in, they'd be like "hey I feel like I'm ok at this, maybe I'll try playing the arena which is where your skill are "put to the test".

 

So instead of "Casual" and "omfg mlg elite tryhard" they have "Social" and "Competitive".

 

Sounds good in theory, but it's about perception.

I dunno man. Would you agree that universal settings would help competitive Halo? Because having 2 vastly different versions of how to play the same game is accomplishing the same thing, basically--bad for growth.

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"Ehh, I don't feel like playing The Pit today..."

*Valhalla AR's*

 

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

this, if veto is to return we can't have terrible map and gametype selections.
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I'm not sure you understand some basic concepts of debating. Hint: One of them is that you don't swear/shout at anyone who disagrees with you.

 

Oh I understand them, I just don't heed them. And how do you shout through a keyboard?

 

Anyway, personally I think you're completely off base.

 

A casual (or any other player for that matter) is far more likely to notice the lack of Snipers, SWAT and doubles than an increase in search times by 5-10 seconds.

 

No, someone who is already plenty familiar with the Halo franchise, and likely to keep playing Halo 5 regardless, will notice the lack of those playlists. A new player who has only had fleeting experience with other Halo games (if any at all) doesn't even know what the fuck those are. Snipers, SWAT, and doubles are not make-or-break parts of a Halo game. They are diversions.

 

Like I said above, one isolated instance of extra search time to get into a game is not the end of the world. Over time, though? They'll notice that difference compared to whatever franchise they came from, which may or may not have instant matches for people like CoD does. If Halo 5 comes out on the wrong side of it and they're not absolutely smitten with the gameplay and instantly prefer it over their usual game, guess what? They're gone.

 

You people really are not capable of putting yourselves in the shoes of newcomers, are you? You're projecting your own level of familiarity with Halo onto literally everybody else who may or may not ever play this game. Stop it.

 

And honestly, the claim that there will even be a search time increase is dubious at best. At launch this game is going to have 100s of thousands of players. None of the playlists are going to have a population issue.

 

Do you not understand simple math? You have a total pool of X amount of players. Those players are sorted into Y amount of playlists. For every (active) playlist you have, the total population is divided into smaller chunks. The smaller the pool of players per playlist, the longer the matchmaking system will take to get them into a game. The time the system will take to get them into an appropriate game (based on skill and party size) is even longer.

 

What might cause a population drop is if players perceive the game to lack content/variety. For example due to the lack SWAT, doubles and Team Snipers etc.

 

Halo 5 has plenty of multiplayer variety, especially if AR/magnum are the constant starting weapons. Those playlists are gimmicks. Down the line? Add them, sure, whatever. No one's going to fucking notice or care about their absence on day one though.

 

The lack of playlists at launch has always been unacceptable. There's a reason why everyone has always complained about the lack of certain playlists until they're eventually added in.

 

Guess what? There's also a reason why the developers have always gone with the bare-bones playlist selection at launch and added to it later, instead of going with this bullshit playlist fiesta thing that you all think is the greatest idea ever. Want to take a stab at why that is?

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I could only ask for better Didact dialog in Halo 4... Say something other than how terrible humans are...

 

That's true. But his monologue at the end was pretty sweet

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NBNS didn't happen for a long time, and it took 343 a TU to achieve.  I remember hating the arena ranking system making you constantly play multiple games to preserve your rank, and for a while it was based off of individual performance which bugged the hell outta me.  Coupled with abysmal jump height and the worst straing of any Halo game, gigantic hit boxes, blegh.

 

Halo 4 I always felt took the shitty ideas in Reach and at least implemented them better.  Jet Pack wasn't as OP, no armor lock, sprint was more fluid, momvement was more responsive, guns shot straight.  My issues were with the loadouts and ordnance mostly.  Then there were other things like descope and a weird art style.

 

Both games had abysmal maps.

 

Reach campaign to me, was an absolute joke.  I've never seen how anyone could say "wow it had such emotional character deaths!" when they were terribly corny and cliche.  Very unspartan like to take out one elite and then get stabbed in the back with a sword.  Nevermind the fact that Reach as a game contradicted all prior canon. Halo 4 was boring to play through and was insanely linear, but the writing wasn't terrible

 

Overall I played a lot more Halo 4 than Reach. 

 

I must say though. I went back and played the NBNS MLG playlist on Reach recently. and it. was. glorious. Easily the best version of Halo in my opinion. 

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"Ehh, I don't feel like playing The Pit today..."

*Valhalla AR's*

 

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Lol. Ahh man if only we lived in a perfect world where there were no bad choices and no people who think it's good to constantly vote for same thing every time. I used to get so angry when a rare map came up in Halo 4 and everyone was still voting for Haven.

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I must sat though. I went back and played the NBNS MLG playlist on Reach recently. and it. was. glorious. Easily the best version of Halo in my opinion.

Definitely. When I played it a week ago it only had 100 people in the playlist but I found a game in under a minute. With faster strafe speed NBNS would've been even more awesome.

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Definitely. When I played it a week ago it only had 100 people in the playlist but I found a game in under a minute. With faster strafe speed NBNS would've been even more awesome.

 

It's really a shame how much of a hit and a miss Reach really was. Literally, bloom, lack of decent maps, and armor lock ruined the game for casuals. Bloom, no maps, and armor abilities ruined it for the competitive. My god, bloom made that game unbearable.

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It's really a shame how much of a hit and a miss Reach really was. Literally, bloom, lack of decent maps, and armor lock ruined the game for casuals. Bloom, no maps, and armor abilities ruined it for the competitive. My god, bloom made that game unbearable.

TU bloom isn't even that bad. When I go back to Reach now, no melee bleedthrough and no stopping power against sprint is a WAY bigger problem than bloom. Not even close.

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I dunno man. Would you agree that universal settings would help competitive Halo? Because having 2 vastly different versions of how to play the same game is accomplishing the same thing, basically--bad for growth.

You've got me there.

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