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Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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I've seen people in Social Slayer run straight at each other with ARs. Does this mean 4v4 isn't competitive? There's 0 sense in denying people who take 8v8 seriously a proper playlist.

 

Your playlist suggestions are going to annoy a lot of people. You need some overlap between social and ranked, otherwise a lot of players probably won't bother with ranked.

 

Social slayer was 5v5, but okay. A ranked BTB playlist would have no population alongside an unranked version, because trying to rank up by yourself or with one other person in big team games is infuriating. And constantly having to round up an entire party to play matchmaking and NOT get screwed by the system kind of defeats the purpose of matchmaking. People would flock to the unranked version. As for 4v4, Team Slayer being ranked in Halo 3 didn't stop that from being the most populated playlist during H3's heyday, did it? Redundancy is fucking stupid. Next you'll start crusading for a ranked zombies playlist, for the 9 people who take that bullshit seriously. CAN'T DENY THEM WHAT THEY WANT, EVEN THOUGH THAT'S WHY FUCKING CUSTOM GAMES EXIST!!!!

 

But hey, I'm just trying to keep player counts somewhat concentrated so that search times aren't fucking ridiculous for the second main title game in a row. Fuck me, right?

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Social slayer was 5v5, but okay. A ranked BTB playlist would have no population alongside an unranked version, because trying to rank up by yourself or with one other person in big team games is infuriating. And constantly having to round up an entire party to play matchmaking and NOT get screwed by the system kind of defeats the purpose of matchmaking. People would flock to the unranked version. As for 4v4, Team Slayer being ranked in Halo 3 didn't stop that from being the most populated playlist during H3's heyday, did it? Redundancy is fucking stupid. Next you'll start crusading for a ranked zombies playlist, for the 9 people who take that bullshit seriously. CAN'T DENY THEM WHAT THEY WANT, EVEN THOUGH THAT'S WHY FUCKING CUSTOM GAMES EXIST!!!!

 

But hey, I'm just trying to keep player counts somewhat concentrated so that search times aren't fucking ridiculous for the second main title game in a row. Fuck me, right?

Calm down, I think you're taking this a wee bit too seriously.

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Social slayer was 5v5, but okay. A ranked BTB playlist would have no population alongside an unranked version, because trying to rank up by yourself or with one other person in big team games is infuriating. And constantly having to round up an entire party to play matchmaking and NOT get screwed by the system kind of defeats the purpose of matchmaking. People would flock to the unranked version. As for 4v4, Team Slayer being ranked in Halo 3 didn't stop that from being the most populated playlist during H3's heyday, did it? Redundancy is fucking stupid. Next you'll start crusading for a ranked zombies playlist, for the 9 people who take that bullshit seriously. CAN'T DENY THEM WHAT THEY WANT, EVEN THOUGH THAT'S WHY FUCKING CUSTOM GAMES EXIST!!!!

 

But hey, I'm just trying to keep player counts somewhat concentrated so that search times aren't fucking ridiculous for the second main title game in a row. Fuck me, right?

Man, you just strawmanned our competitive stature just because we think that if 4v4 can be competitive, x2 that number of people in a game can theoretically be just so. Take a chill pill.

 

Wasn't BigTeamBattle.net pretty popular until Halo 4 The Great Calamity struck, and its owner crazied out?

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A ranked BTB playlist would have no population alongside an unranked version, because trying to rank up by yourself or with one other person in big team games is infuriating. 

 

In my experience, it's about the same.

two good players working together can be just as effective in a 4v4 as in a 5v5 or (slightly less)6v6

 

 

But then again my experience of BTB is going in to social with my brother who prefers to play Nintendo and Minecraft, so the competition wasn't exactly top notch.

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Ranked 6v6 would be a good compromise for those who want ranks with vehicles, and more objective than normal. 

 

My playlists: 

 

Ranked:

Team Doubles (if this even works with H5 mechanics)

Team Slayer 4v4

Halo Championship Series

6v6 skirmish/obj./btb

Lone Wolves (6 people)

Breakout

Team Snipers

 

Unranked:

8v8 BTB

Rumble Pit (8 people)

Multi-Team

SWAT

Action Sack

Infection

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Social slayer was 5v5, but okay. A ranked BTB playlist would have no population alongside an unranked version, because trying to rank up by yourself or with one other person in big team games is infuriating. And constantly having to round up an entire party to play matchmaking and NOT get screwed by the system kind of defeats the purpose of matchmaking. People would flock to the unranked version. As for 4v4, Team Slayer being ranked in Halo 3 didn't stop that from being the most populated playlist during H3's heyday, did it? Redundancy is fucking stupid. Next you'll start crusading for a ranked zombies playlist, for the 9 people who take that bullshit seriously. CAN'T DENY THEM WHAT THEY WANT, EVEN THOUGH THAT'S WHY FUCKING CUSTOM GAMES EXIST!!!!

 

But hey, I'm just trying to keep player counts somewhat concentrated so that search times aren't fucking ridiculous for the second main title game in a row. Fuck me, right?

You need to chill if you want an actual discussion.

 

Social Slayer was 5v5, but it was also using the same gametypes. You proposed social skirmish, which I'm presuming meant slayer +objective, which is completely different (social slayer was also the most populated playlist, but that isnt really important).

 

Im guessing you don't understand what BTB is like At a relatively high level. There is enough of an interest to warrant a ranked Playlist I think. If you're concerned about population, I sure as hell hope you aren't wanting a HCS Playlist - MLG always had a low population, and a HCS Playlist would probably be the same.

 

Action Sack is relatively popular, so you can't cut that unless youre adding a custom games browser, which isn't happening.

 

You didn't want a 2v2 Playlist at launch. Why? How does adding one later when the game has a lowe population benefit anyone?

 

Snipers and Swat are something that I don't think should be there, but they have a decent sized following, so it doesn't make sense to remove them.

 

Halo 3s playlists have spoilt us - everyone expects their favourite Playlist to be there at launch. Are my playlists what we need? I'm not sure, but I do know that people would be annoyed with only 8 playlists at launch.

 

Wasn't BigTeamBattle.net pretty popular until Halo 4 The Great Calamity struck, and its owner crazied out?

 

Yeah, it exploded with Reach. Halo 4 pretty much killed it.

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Why is BTB inherently casual?

It's not so much that it's casual, it's more about the fact it can't support a small population while providing fast AND competitive matches (and the average person doesn't search BTB for competitive matches). Even Squad Battle (which was 6v6 instead of 8v8) ended up dying due to a lack of a population. It's alright though, because BTB.net will take competitive BTB in their own hands assuming the game isn't dead on arrival again.

 

As for playlists, I don't really care. I just want ranked FFA, doubles and 4v4. Let's just hope it's not too much to ask.

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Wasn't BigTeamBattle.net pretty popular until Halo 4 The Great Calamity struck, and its owner crazied out?

Oh and this never happened. It took a while before the winners of the last tournament got paid, but we all did. 

 

It was supposed to return with MCC, but the game doesn't even support 8v8 customs and parties were fucked up for the longest time, not even accounting for the amount of random crashes. It was a lost cause.

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I'm going to change my playlist thing up.

 

Ranked 

 

Lonewolves (6 Players)

Team Slayer (4v4)

Squad Battle (6v6) - Objective/Slayer Gametypes

Team Doubles (2v2)

Halo Championship Series (4v4)

Team Snipers (4v4)

Breakout (4v4)

 

Unranked

 

Rumble Pit (6-8 Players)

Team Slayer (5v5)

Team SWAT (4v4)

Big Team Battle (8v8)

Multi Team (4 Teams of 3)

Grifball (4v4)

Living Dead (10-13 Players)

 

There should always be Ranked and Unranked(Social) playlist separation at all times.  I love playing non stop hard ranked matches on Halo but what about the people who just want to relax an not care?  That's not fair to them at all.

 

Also all of these playlist should be in day 1 of the game releasing they shouldn't hold back on any playlist.

 

And Matchmaking should always offer different party number playlist so if you have this x amount of people in your lobby there is always something for you guys to go into instead of having to kick someone or leave somebody out.

 

@@Sal1ent Can you tell us any info about Matchmaking playlist and ranks an such?

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IMO, If 343 is smart H5 BTB will evolve into something even more casual to bridge the gap with campaign. Focus Competitive Arena around FFA, doubles, and 4v4. But expand BTB into persistent, MOBA-like, large scale battles complete with NPCs and join in progress. Make it fun and easy for kids to jump in and they will eat that shit up. Then as they learn the game, they can try the competitive game modes.

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Halo 4 The Great Calamity

 

+1

 

 

IMO, If 343 is smart H5 BTB will evolve into something even more casual to bridge the gap with campaign. Focus Competitive Arena around FFA, doubles, and 4v4. But expand BTB into persistent, MOBA-like, large scale battles complete with NPCs and join in progress. Make it fun and easy for kids to jump in and they will eat that shit up. Then as they learn the game, they can try the competitive game modes.

 

 

Genuinely a good idea. You could also put some lore into the battles as well (locations and objectives) so the nubbies can get really into it whilst the more serious players hop on the ranked 4v4/2v2 playlists.

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IMO, If 343 is smart H5 BTB will evolve into something even more casual to bridge the gap with campaign. Focus Competitive Arena around FFA, doubles, and 4v4. But expand BTB into persistent, MOBA-like, large scale battles complete with NPCs and join in progress. Make it fun and easy for kids to jump in and they will eat that shit up. Then as they learn the game, they can try the competitive game modes.

Perfect idea.

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@@Haemorrhage That's a pretty cool idea and I'd personally love to play that gametype, but I also think traditional BTB (casual/competitive alike) is some of the most fun and unique experiences in halo, I wouldn't want to completely abandon it.

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IMO, If 343 is smart H5 BTB will evolve into something even more casual to bridge the gap with campaign. Focus Competitive Arena around FFA, doubles, and 4v4. But expand BTB into persistent, MOBA-like, large scale battles complete with NPCs and join in progress. Make it fun and easy for kids to jump in and they will eat that shit up. Then as they learn the game, they can try the competitive game modes.

I think this is smart in a business sense, but it won't help competitive Halo. To the casual it'd be seen as way more epic and it'd be hard to get anyone to convert back to the old style. It's splitting the game more than ever before. Leaving the ranked playlists to just already comp. players is bad.

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BTB is inherently casual and fun. It's like a giant war. It's a clusterfuck and full of vehicle abuse. There's a reason why mlg never had btb and there's a reason no one asked them to include it.

 

I'm not saying you can't take it seriously, but usually people are just screwing around and hardly anyone goes in with a full to8.

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The more playlists at launch the better. We shouldn't have to continue to go through the process of testing SWAT and Snipers, removing them, and wait nearly a month to add them back. Same goes for multi team. We don't need crazy game types right off the bat. We know people want them. We shouldn't also go through the process of having each game type have its own individual playlist like in Halo 4 or have the BTB playlist be only slayer for months.

 

People think Breakout needs its own playlist. I like the game type and hope the improvements that are made are amazing but I don't think it deserves its own playlist. Maybe for a couple of weeks but we all know it's going to be in HCS for at least one season. It's most likely going to be added to a Team Objective playlist as well.

 

Maps would have to edited for the, to cater to doubles. Truth wouldn't be too bad but that's really the only alright map I can think of for the playlist right now. Maybe an edited crossfire could work as well.

 

Infection would be fun to have on Day 1 especially if they have someone working on editing maps to set the mood of the game type.

 

Grifball should probably wait. We're fortunate to usually get a blank canvas and an on disc game type for it but they'll probably wait for the community to put out a couple of more maps and unique game types before making a playlist. Again would be nice if they had someone either in 343 or in the Grifball community to help with that in advance.

 

 

I'm going to reiterate how it's important to give people what they want right from the start because they won't have enough to time to do if they don't at launch. SWAT, Snipers, Mulit-Team, Team Objective, BTB with slayer AND objective, Infection, and possibly Doubles need to be there at launch.

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There's a reason why mlg never had btb and there's a reason no one asked them to include it.

To be fair, running events always was expensive because of the equipment. Having to set up stations for 8v8 just wouldn't be viable cost-wise -- not that it ever was -- and it would be very hard to supervise and have refs for anyway.

 

Not to mention communication is an issue for these sort of things (just calling out is very hectic), and I can't imagine how troublesome it would be to have daisy chained astros for 8 people per team. Not even sure if that's doable.

 

Overall, even if, for some reason, the game was better for 8v8, I don't think serious organizations would consider 8v8 tournaments as a long-term model.

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And one more thing, bring back the fuckin veto system. People have been asking for it since Reach launched.

I never understood why there were people who disliked the veto system. It was the only thing stopping people from voting for the exact same map again and again and again. I can barely remember what maps Halo 4 had other than Haven and Adrift.

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The more playlists at launch the better. We shouldn't have to continue to go through the process of testing SWAT and Snipers, removing them, and wait nearly a month to add them back. Same goes for multi team. We don't need crazy game types right off the bat. We know people want them. We shouldn't also go through the process of having each game type have its own individual playlist like in Halo 4 or have the BTB playlist be only slayer for months.

 

People think Breakout needs its own playlist. I like the game type and hope the improvements that are made are amazing but I don't think it deserves its own playlist. Maybe for a couple of weeks but we all know it's going to be in HCS for at least one season. It's most likely going to be added to a Team Objective playlist as well.

 

Maps would have to edited for the, to cater to doubles. Truth wouldn't be too bad but that's really the only alright map I can think of for the playlist right now. Maybe an edited crossfire could work as well.

 

Infection would be fun to have on Day 1 especially if they have someone working on editing maps to set the mood of the game type.

 

Grifball should probably wait. We're fortunate to usually get a blank canvas and an on disc game type for it but they'll probably wait for the community to put out a couple of more maps and unique game types before making a playlist. Again would be nice if they had someone either in 343 or in the Grifball community to help with that in advance.

 

 

I'm going to reiterate how it's important to give people what they want right from the start because they won't have enough to time to do if they don't at launch. SWAT, Snipers, Mulit-Team, Team Objective, BTB with slayer AND objective, Infection, and possibly Doubles need to be there at launch.

I wish they'd stop trying to make a Grifball canvas. Bungie tried it with Halo 3 with Sandbox's crypt and it was hardly ever used, in fact I don't even recall the regular version being used in matchmaking much. 

 

With Halo: Reach, they just left it to Forge World with the Coliseum and once again, it was rarely used. 

 

343 tried again with Halo 4 and gave them Erosion with the inside area which had a gaping spot on one side of the arena, meaning one side could throw the ball up and get it stuck if the enemy team was close to planting. Eventually they patched this by placing invisible walls so one side didn't have an advantage. 

 

The most popular Grifball maps I can think of were all Forge variants like the classic Foundry version in Halo 3. Let the people who actually play Grifball make the maps in Forge, stop trying to put a twist on it.

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I wish they'd stop trying to make a Grifball canvas. Bungie tried it with Halo 3 with Sandbox's crypt and it was hardly ever used, in fact I don't even recall the regular version being used in matchmaking much. 

 

With Halo: Reach, they just left it to Forge World with the Coliseum and once again, it was rarely used. 

 

343 tried again with Halo 4 and gave them Erosion with the inside area which had a gaping spot on one side of the arena, meaning one side could throw the ball up and get it stuck if the enemy team was close to planting. Eventually they patched this by placing invisible walls so one side didn't have an advantage. 

 

The most popular Grifball maps I can think of were all Forge variants like the classic Foundry version in Halo 3. Let the people who actually play Grifball make the maps in Forge, stop trying to put a twist on it.

I think they should focus on the competitive side of Halo rather than the casual since that's a major part of the player-base. The forge alone is enough for casuals, etc etc.

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I think they should focus on the competitive side of Halo rather than the casual since that's a major part of the player-base. The forge alone is enough for casuals, etc etc.

The Grifball fanbase isn't strictly casual, though. 

 

They deserve attention (such as a gametype that is decent and not half assed) but if they really want to give them a map, do it right.

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The Grifball fanbase isn't strictly casual, though. 

 

They deserve attention (such as a gametype that is decent and not half assed) but if they really want to give them a map, do it right.

I've never been interested in it so I wouldn't know.

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