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Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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Ranks give the player a visual goal to work towards, which increases his investment in the game. Just like achievements or leaderboard positions. Point is, players wanna brag. They wanna stroke that e-peen and say, "Yeah, I worked for that rank." They wanna talk shit in the postgame lobby. Ranks just provide a certain atmosphere for matchmaking that competitive players enjoy.

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Ranks are important in an online environment. There is no excuse for not having ranks in modern day Halo. Am I posting on bizarro TB? Literally everyone here was pissed that ranks weren't in the game for months.

 

I can dedicate whole weekends to CE on LAN with good players and switching up teams for fairness, yes. I'm not dedicating whole weekends to playing it online without ranks just pounding scrubs. It's boring. And rolling customs all weekend would be lame too. Customs aren't as fun because you don't have dedis on customs so the lag usually sucks badly.. like worse than p2p matchmaking for some reason. And it's not as fun playing customs with the same people over and over when they're not in the same house as you and you're isolated in your own chat totally disconnected from your opponents, even your own team if you don't have a local with you. Online is fun and addicting because you play anyone in the world and there is variety in gameplay style, and ranks are needed to make that work on a competitive level to keep you engaged for a long time. LAN is fun because you're already just hanging out with friends having a good time and Halo is adding to that.

 

I think anyone who had played a bunch of H2 at a high matchmaking level at least welcomes the debate about the pro's and con's of VISIBLE ranks. I'm not interested myself in Halo 5 as of now, but if it turns out to be a better game than I feel it and has a working matchmaking system I might consider it. Ideally I'd have a PC by then but Ranks would help provide some incentive for sure, it's just for a game that I don't really enjoy playing as much.

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I think the reclaimer trilogy is more like the prequels. 

It is very funny to reply to a somewhat considered joke with a boilerplate and uncritical goof.  Nice reddit-level commenting skills, bro.

 

Re: current goings-on, it is fine if you think that ranks should have been in the game, but not having them in is obviously a choice, not an outright mistake or failing.  You can't fail at something you do not try to do. 

 

The majority of Halo 4 is exactly what it was intended to be, which is very different than if it were mostly accidental how it turned out.  Which is why Halo 5 was able to take a hard left turn based mostly on a change in design philosophy: the ability to do so was never in question.

 

EDIT: more lore/campaign stuff.  I had been thinking pretty much since the end of Halo 4 that they would be trying to introduce more and more new factions of enemies for us to fight, each of them existing separately from the covenant and having their own structure.  I don't know why it didn't really occur to me that doing that is kind of a terrible idea.  Destiny is basically an example of where that can go: how uninteresting and generalized each faction becomes as the game has to support more of them.

 

It really does make more sense to add more variety to a single faction than to try to make multiple stand on their own.  It allows you to do new things rather than making sure all the bases are covered: instead of needing to re-invent the Elite, you already have Elites and can make something else.

 

In the case of something like The Flood, there should never have been an attempt to make them an ordinary enemy in the first place.  They should exist as more of a dynamic set-piece hindering your path to an objective and complicating ordinary engagements.  It frees them of needing to conform to typical Halo combat dynamics, and they also feel more like what they are supposed to be thematically: an unrelenting force that can only be stopped through performing big-picture actions. 

 

If The Terror Of The Galaxy can be stopped by shooting it in the head with a gun, it's just a space zombie.  Instead it could be a writhing mass of tentacles and corpses you have to evade: a map hazard that could work in multiplayer.

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I wonder how exactly the Flood will engage when their 'season' comes again?

 

Well, the Spirit of Fire is presenting quite a plausible circumstance (stray Flood Infection Form). Don't do anything stupid to accelerate the inevitable, humanity.

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I wonder how exactly the Flood will engage when their 'season' comes again?

 

Well, the Spirit of Fire is presenting quite a plausible circumstance (stray Flood Infection Form). Don't do anything stupid to accelerate the inevitable, humanity.

it would be cool to have a level where they find the spirit of fire in deep space, with flood nesting in it, we haven't had a scary level in years.
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Of course ranks will make Halo 5 and Halo overall a lot better. My main concern is the 343 statement regarding social playlists (true multiplayer is everything ranked or something along those lines)--I would like at least some so I could play with irl friends or lesser skilled players and not have to worry about losing my hard earned rank. When this scenario was brought up, I'm pretty sure Menke said the system was designed so that you won't take a loss as hard, and that's the solution. But this obviously leads me to speculate boosting and deranking will be a problem once again. Surely Menke is smart enough to not let such a problem occur, though, and I apologize for perhaps beating a dead horse for I've now posted this a couple times here, but I just want awareness to be raised/a response.

 

Also, is your in-game performance taken into account for your placement division? During the beta, there were several players tweeting saying they played all their games together but recieved different divisons--Menke responded with it's a result of the secret sauce, which most obviously has to be in-game stats. What is everyone's opinion on this?

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Decided to sit down and listen to all the current [9] Hunt The Truth episodes (was waiting for a bunch of them to pile up) and I have to go ahead and recommend it to anyone who hasn't done the same. At first I thought it was going to be somewhat boring background information on the lore, but it's a lot more than just that. It sets up an important part of the narrative for Halo 5 with some unexpected themes, and others that pick up right where Halo 4 left us with Master Chief's dilemma.

 

Didn't think I'd get excited for the Campaign and thought it'd be something similar to Halo 2's dual protagonist stuff, but it's looking to be like a massive internal conflict, similar to what the Covenant went through, except this time it's all on the humans but also within Chief himself... and that's while something even bigger is going on in the background.

 

If the Halo 5 plot is even half as good as this, then we're in for something huge.

 

I think this is the correct link to listen to all of them in one sitting: https://soundcloud.com/huntthetruth/sets/hunt-the-truth

Anyone that feels this way should read the books. Especially the older ones dealing directly with MC and Ghosts of Onyx. This entire Hunt The Truth thing is based entirely upon what you see ONI doing during those novels and is actually 110% what was expected if you'd know what to expect to begin with. You'll enjoy the books because this little series is a small taste of their actions/cover ups/etc. Basically its a typical ONI/Halo story.

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In all honesty I don't mind if 343 doesn't get the starting weapons right until after we put more time into testing the weapon sandbox as a community. What I do want 343 to get right before the game goes gold is the weapon/power-up placements and the times for them. I'm hoping that 343 makes everything spawn more frequently since weapons(hoping that power-ups are also) are now on static timers. I want to see power-ups spawn every one minute and rockets & other weapons that are of the same tier as them to spawn every two minutes.

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What if this elaborate ranking system was implemented, but wasn't visible? Would that be enough to satisfy most of your complaints here? Or are you pushing for visible ranks because you want to see them and play for some incentive?

Would be enough to satisfy some of my complains; however, I truly believe that having visible ranks will pull people more and more to the game unless the ranking system controlling the ranks and the matching between players is not good enough. For example, using Halo 3's ranking system, people will be pushed away if they are matched against players with a way higher rank (Player A: Rank 2 vs Player B: Rank 49). In the other hand, if those people play against other players with similar ranks, win, and get rewarded by ranking up, they'll keep the momentum. (Player A: Rank 2 vs Player B: Rank 3) There's an equal opportunity when you're playing against another player with similar skills, rather than playing with someone with more experience. It's like me playing against Lethul or Snipedown when I'm level 2 and they're level 50.

 

Longevity will help Matchmaking throughout the time. If a good amount of players keep playing online, playlists will be functional after a while and the matching/ranking system will still be in good conditions. From my perspective; having great gameplay, great matching system and a Halo with a visible ranking system will be a more enjoyable experience while keeping players for longer period of time compared to a Halo game with no visible ranking system.

 

Halo: Reach; from my perspective, had a crappy matching system. You had either good or bad teammates randomly. However, the visible ranking system (Both Exp System and Arena system) even tho was crap as well, kept a lot of players and made them play more and more. Players played hours just to get Inheritor.

 

Tons of people want ranks in Halo, and again, from my perspective, its a bit of an issue that a modern Halo game doesn't have a visible ranking system.

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I think it's so funny when someone joins this site and instantly goes deep neg rep and then disappear forever after a few days.

I had a similar experience on halo council. Never went back there, and didn't make an account here for so long because of it lol.
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It obviously won't happen, but what if regenerating health/shields were removed? Then there's an actual consequence for taking damage. Those who abuse sprint and thruster will be punished for running away or to teammates, standoffs become less obnoxious and become discouraged, and automatic weapons become more difficult to use (but can also be more effective when a player has strong positioning).

 

It fixes/improves a lot of issues while providing greater consequences for poor positioning and/or decision making.

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It obviously won't happen, but what if regenerating health/shields were removed? Then there's an actual consequence for taking damage. Those who abuse sprint and thruster will be punished for running away or to teammates, standoffs become less obnoxious and become discouraged, and automatic weapons become more difficult to use (but can also be more effective when a player has strong positioning).

 

It fixes/improves a lot of issues while providing greater consequences for poor positioning and/or decision making.

Then we end up with a horrible mess of Counter-Strike mixed with TF2 and Halo CE.

 

Halo's shielding system is unique in that while you're shielded, you're relatively safe. Once those pop, you're vulnerable to one-shot kills against precision weapons.

 

The problem is, Halo's gunfights are based around duels.

 

 

Take away shield regeneration and you're left with nothing but hit and run tactics and camping.

 

It becomes too risky to engage in duels because doing so typically leaves both sides damaged and vulnerable to enemies.

 

Those who are hurt become a liability because they're too weak to sufficiently damage enemies without dying instantly.

 

Because of that, they're forced to hide or resort to flanking tactics.

 

Healthy players are forced to choose between going through the same cycle or following a safer route, which is to stick by their injured allies and focus on team shooting.

 

As a result, individual skill diminishes rapidly, since the game now revolves around getting shots on the enemy team and not taking any yourself.

 

It becomes a stale formula of shoot, get shot, kill, get killed. Long-ranged weapons like the BR and DMR dominate the battlefield because they can fire off shots from a safe distance, and short-ranged encounters become rare. Power weapons like the Energy Sword, the Rocket Launcher, and the Shotgun lose their importance to the Sniper Rifle, which can completely decimate shields for allies from a far distance.

 

Alternatively, grenade spam becomes prevalent because they can damage a large number of players and Halo becomes a grenade game.

 

In the process of all of this, Sprint and Thruster become go-to actions. Instead of punishing them, Sprinting rewards them by allowing a player to survive. Thrusting back into cover becomes a norm, instead of being used offensively. Instead of winning duels, the game becomes focused around running around to grab DMRs.

 

 

In short, the consequences of taking damage would be way too high, and it'd promote even more evasive uses of Sprint and Thruster.

 

The reason why games like Counter-Strike works without health regeneration is because kill-times are ridiculously quick. Someone with 1 HP can kill someone with max HP and armor by sneaking up on them and getting a shot to their face with a Deagle. In short, HP in Counter-Strike isn't something super important to keep track of in the grand scheme of things.

 

TF2 gets away with its relatively slow kill-times because there's a class dedicated to healing and health kits are scattered throughout the map. A player with low health can still defeat a player with high health, but the odds tip more to the latter. In a Halo without regenerating shields, a non-shielded player would almost always lose to a fully-shielded player.

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Halo is one of the few games where health regen actually makes sense with the lore(unlike most other games that utilize it) and the core mechanic of the regen shield is centric to how the games battles/encounters play out. I do still like having health-packs like HCE for another layer of decision making, but I would argue the regen shield greatly benefits Halo(not necessarily other more "realistic" shooter titles) as a shooter in both SP+MP. Bungie seems to like the mechanic as Destiny has the same core mechanic. Never saw it as a knock on the game (people forget Tribes really invented the mechanic), in fact its one of the only things left that makes it decisively different from other current shooter titles.

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Then we end up with a horrible mess of Counter-Strike mixed with TF2 and Halo CE.

 

Halo's shielding system is unique in that while you're shielded, you're relatively safe. Once those pop, you're vulnerable to one-shot kills against precision weapons.

 

The problem is, Halo's gunfights are based around duels.

 

 

Take away shield regeneration and you're left with nothing but hit and run tactics and camping.

 

It becomes too risky to engage in duels because doing so typically leaves both sides damaged and vulnerable to enemies.

 

Those who are hurt become a liability because they're too weak to sufficiently damage enemies without dying instantly.

 

Because of that, they're forced to hide or resort to flanking tactics.

 

Healthy players are forced to choose between going through the same cycle or following a safer route, which is to stick by their injured allies and focus on team shooting.

 

As a result, individual skill diminishes rapidly, since the game now revolves around getting shots on the enemy team and not taking any yourself.

 

It becomes a stale formula of shoot, get shot, kill, get killed. Long-ranged weapons like the BR and DMR dominate the battlefield because they can fire off shots from a safe distance, and short-ranged encounters become rare. Power weapons like the Energy Sword, the Rocket Launcher, and the Shotgun lose their importance to the Sniper Rifle, which can completely decimate shields for allies from a far distance.

 

Alternatively, grenade spam becomes prevalent because they can damage a large number of players and Halo becomes a grenade game.

 

In the process of all of this, Sprint and Thruster become go-to actions. Instead of punishing them, Sprinting rewards them by allowing a player to survive. Thrusting back into cover becomes a norm, instead of being used offensively. Instead of winning duels, the game becomes focused around running around to grab DMRs.

 

 

In short, the consequences of taking damage would be way too high, and it'd promote even more evasive uses of Sprint and Thruster.

 

The reason why games like Counter-Strike works without health regeneration is because kill-times are ridiculously quick. Someone with 1 HP can kill someone with max HP and armor by sneaking up on them and getting a shot to their face with a Deagle. In short, HP in Counter-Strike isn't something super important to keep track of in the grand scheme of things.

 

TF2 gets away with its relatively slow kill-times because there's a class dedicated to healing and health kits are scattered throughout the map. A player with low health can still defeat a player with high health, but the odds tip more to the latter. In a Halo without regenerating shields, a non-shielded player would almost always lose to a fully-shielded player.

That makes sense, thanks for your input! I guess I've just been playing too much CS lately and failed to realize the consequences of no regen in a game like Halo.

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I had a similar experience on halo council. Never went back there, and didn't make an account here for so long because of it lol.

:ghost:

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Maybe. MAYBE. Only the multiplayer. Story is fantabulous.

 

I could only ask for better Didact dialog in Halo 4... Say something other than how terrible humans are...

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The didact being one dimensional was one of the few things I didn't like about h4s single player.

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The multiplayer in Halo 4 was short and boring, absolutely no depth, much like the Star Wars prequels. I can play H1-3, Reach and ODST over and over and over and over again. 

 

Halo 4? I've only played it twice and I want to keep it that way. 

 

IT'S OKAY THOUGH BECAUSE THE GRAPHICS ARE REALLY NICE

 

WARNING: MY OPINION MIGHT UPSET SOME OF YOU NEW TO THE FRANCHISE

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The multiplayer in Halo 4 was short and boring, absolutely no depth, much like the Star Wars prequels. I can play H1-3, Reach and ODST over and over and over and over again. 

 

Halo 4? I've only played it twice and I want to keep it that way. 

 

IT'S OKAY THOUGH BECAUSE THE GRAPHICS ARE REALLY NICE

Honestly I have a hard time distinguishing between the lesser of two evils; Reach and 4.  I constantly go back and forth between which I think is the worst Halo game.

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Honestly I have a hard time distinguishing between the lesser of two evils; Reach and 4.  I constantly go back and forth between which I think is the worst Halo game.

 

Reach is so much better than 4 it's ridiculous. I actually enjoyed myself on Reach despite Sprint and Bloom. The firefight, campaign, swat, snipers, doubles and big team battle playlists were very fun. Once MLG playlist was NBNS I grinded the fuck outta that too!

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Reach is so much better than 4 it's ridiculous. I actually enjoyed myself on Reach despite Sprint and Bloom. The firefight, campaign, swat, snipers, doubles and big team battle playlists were very fun. Once MLG playlist was NBNS I grinded the fuck outta that too!

NBNS didn't happen for a long time, and it took 343 a TU to achieve.  I remember hating the arena ranking system making you constantly play multiple games to preserve your rank, and for a while it was based off of individual performance which bugged the hell outta me.  Coupled with abysmal jump height and the worst straing of any Halo game, gigantic hit boxes, blegh.

 

Halo 4 I always felt took the shitty ideas in Reach and at least implemented them better.  Jet Pack wasn't as OP, no armor lock, sprint was more fluid, momvement was more responsive, guns shot straight.  My issues were with the loadouts and ordnance mostly.  Then there were other things like descope and a weird art style.

 

Both games had abysmal maps.

 

Reach campaign to me, was an absolute joke.  I've never seen how anyone could say "wow it had such emotional character deaths!" when they were terribly corny and cliche.  Very unspartan like to take out one elite and then get stabbed in the back with a sword.  Nevermind the fact that Reach as a game contradicted all prior canon. Halo 4 was boring to play through and was insanely linear, but the writing wasn't terrible

 

Overall I played a lot more Halo 4 than Reach. 

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Staying zoomed in, being able to have sprint with your AA and not being able to drop the flag changed the game entirely.

 

Oh and all the maps sucked.

 

I had an infinite better time in the few days i played Halo 5

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Halo Reach and Halo 4 have their moments, but Halo 4 is not even 1/5 feature packed Halo Reach was. Before I lost my first Xbox Live account I had maybe around 300 forge world maps saved. :P

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