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Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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Well for marines without helmet to scope integration, a big rectangular screen would have tons of glare, and a smaller circular one would be better.

Didn't they basically all have scope integration tho? I mean standard marines used the AR, which according to lore is extremely accurate and doesn't even have iron sights.

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Didn't they basically all have scope integration tho? I mean standard marines used the AR, which according to lore is extremely accurate and doesn't even have iron sights.

I'm just going off the games, where you can see marines looking through the sniper scope... but I'm no #LoreMaster.

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It's just starting to hit me how badly 2v2's will play on the default maps

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I agree with most of this, but @bolded I think it's the reason H5 should use AR/Magnum starts across the board, even for competitive. The Magnum should be more than lethal enough to compete with other precision weapons with an identical range (even a tad lower would be fine, either doesn't matter much) as long as it's 4sk. The point should be to grab the BR on the map rather than just have it right off the bat, cause you know... the game kind of lacks incentives to move around the map. You'll almost always want to pick-up the BR vs. the Magnum, because the BR is just a bit easier, not as punishing and allows for more kills per clip. Placing Magnums on the maps would result in them almost never being grabbed and just getting in the way (leading to an eventual removal). Think of the Magnums on Warlord that kept preventing people from lifting flags into the base.

No, no, no, no. AR starts is not the way to go. Unless the magnum is buffed to be like CE but then there would be no reason to pick up a BR anyway. BR's spawning is not a real way to incentivize moving it's simply just, did I spawn infront of one? 

 

Halo 5 should have fast spawning power ups power weapons (like CE) because that would actually force people to constantly be rotating and moving. 

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The way Halo 5 is designed (or at least the state it was in the Beta) creates a huge stalemate at high levels of play (from personal experience, was pro rated and played with a team of 4 against other teams of 4) and this stalemate is even more noticeable with BR starts. There is just no incentive to move at all once you have the lead. There aren't any power ups, and the weapon spawn times are very long. It's very difficult to push in Halo 5 (easy to escape death and fast shield recharge ) and you get punished for flanking or doing anything as a individual. The game play in general is very standoffish, which no one should be surprised with easy to use weapons and the easiness of escape. Right now there is 0 incentive to move once you have the lead. Some solutions would be strong, quick spawning weapons and power ups, but AR starts is also a viable option. What is the reason we didn't have SMG starts or AR starts in the first place? Because they were awful guns that you couldn't do anything against someone with a BR or a Sniper. That isn't the case anymore. We have a zero bloom AR with a head shot multiplier and a decent pistol to go with it. If the AR and pistol are both viable (which right now they are, and a 4sk pistol would make that even better) I don't exactly see a problem with AR starts. Anything to chop up the monotony of crouching in a corner until the next sniper spawns in 4 minutes I'll support. 

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The way Halo 5 is designed (or at least the state it was in the Beta) creates a huge stalemate at high levels of play (from personal experience, was pro rated and played with a team of 4 against other teams of 4) and this stalemate is even more noticeable with BR starts. There is just no incentive to move at all once you have the lead. There aren't any power ups, and the weapon spawn times are very long. It's very difficult to push in Halo 5 (easy to escape death and fast shield recharge ) and you get punished for flanking or doing anything as a individual. The game play in general is very standoffish, which no one should be surprised with easy to use weapons and the easiness of escape. Right now there is 0 incentive to move once you have the lead. Some solutions would be strong, quick spawning weapons and power ups, but AR starts is also a viable option. What is the reason we didn't have SMG starts or AR starts in the first place? Because they were awful guns that you couldn't do anything against someone with a BR or a Sniper. That isn't the case anymore. We have a zero bloom AR with a head shot multiplier and a decent pistol to go with it. If the AR and pistol are both viable (which right now they are, and a 4sk pistol would make that even better) I don't exactly see a problem with AR starts. Anything to chop up the monotony of crouching in a corner until the next sniper spawns in 4 minutes I'll support. 

I think that a switch up in starting weapons is very viable given the size of H5's armory. You mentioned that at high levels of play the game would get stand offish. I never searched with a To4 in slayer so my rating reflected it because of how flawed the system was. Even then, on Eden in particular, there was no reason whatsoever to leave the sniper spawn room. Putting an OS, or Camo with a fast respawn in the security room, (idk the name but it's the building inside, opposite of the outside terrace), would promote a lot more movement to the map. The current rate of respawn is a huge detriment to the flow of combat for most of the maps available in the beta. AR + Pistol starts seem to be the most viable starting set of weapons because like you said the BR is simply allowing for people to engage in longer distances, and escape those encounters with ease. 

 

In short, fast spawning pick ups/power weapons, and AR + Pistol starts imo

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Oh god are you guys for real? How is making spawners weaker going to fix leaders camping? If anything it will make the problem worse, as the leaders will pick up the BRs and have an easier job at holding you back, have you not played SMG starts before against good players? I know it won't be that bad, but the point still stands - weakening spawners makes camping worse, not better. Or at least over-rewards first kills which imbalances the game significantly.

 

We just need faster weapon respawns, powerups, and I think a longer shield recharge wait would benefit the game a lot, as running away no shield would put you out of action for a similar amount of time as dying.

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Oh god are you guys for real? How is making spawners weaker going to fix leaders camping? If anything it will make the problem worse, as the leaders will pick up the BRs and have an easier job at holding you back, have you not played SMG starts before against good players? I know it won't be that bad, but the point still stands - weakening spawners makes camping worse, not better. Or at least over-rewards first kills which imbalances the game significantly.

 

We just need faster weapon respawns, powerups, and I think a longer shield recharge wait would benefit the game a lot, as running away no shield would put you out of action for a similar amount of time as dying.

All this, but especially the bolded.

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No, no, no, no. AR starts is not the way to go. Unless the magnum is buffed to be like CE but then there would be no reason to pick up a BR anyway. BR's spawning is not a real way to incentivize moving it's simply just, did I spawn infront of one? 

 

Halo 5 should have fast spawning power ups power weapons (like CE) because that would actually force people to constantly be rotating and moving. 

There's no way the Magnum would be buffed to the same point as CE, I'm sure Frankie himself would prevent it from happening because he seems to hate a 3sk Magnum. But it can be between that and what it is right now (5sk -> 4sk).

 

BRs are worth getting because shooting with them is significantly easier and less punishing than using the Magnum. You place them in key areas near choke points, to keep the focus of combat in the open rather than inside bases. If, like I said, the Magnum kept its lower RRR instead of being the same as other precision weapons (BR included) then it could be a even more noticeable upgrade from what you spawn with. The maps just need a respectable amount of them.

 

The Magnum is meant to be a powerful weapon, but very difficult to shoot at a distance vs. other precision weapons you pick up on the map. On Truth for instance, you can easily hold down either tower using a BR/DMR and shoot people across the map with ease, whereas a Magnum will require extreme skill to get a perfect kill at that range. It's well worth moving around the map for.

 

Otherwise I agree, H5 does need faster spawning power weapons, and we need to see some power-ups get implemented (camo, 300% overshield, speed boost, customs). 

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Oh god are you guys for real? How is making spawners weaker going to fix leaders camping? If anything it will make the problem worse, as the leaders will pick up the BRs and have an easier job at holding you back, have you not played SMG starts before against good players? I know it won't be that bad, but the point still stands - weakening spawners makes camping worse, not better. Or at least over-rewards first kills which imbalances the game significantly.

 

We just need faster weapon respawns, powerups, and I think a longer shield recharge wait would benefit the game a lot, as running away no shield would put you out of action for a similar amount of time as dying.

When you hear the phrase "AR starts" I know what you are thinking. The fact is the AR now is better in certain engagements. (I mean it is hitscan, has a scope, and has a headshot multiplier). Were the AR and SMG would lose to the BR in close range, beating an AR or SMG user in close range, even to mid range with a BR is an accomplishment in Halo 5. Halo 5 has an abundance of precision weapons, and as such the game isn't only dominated by the BR anymore. The BR is the middle ground between the automatics and the DMR and the light Rifle. In AR starts the precision weapons are treated as upgrades to the magnum, unlike in previous games were they are just power weapons. Like I said earlier, Halo 5, as presented in the Beta, flows noticeably better with AR starts then BR starts. From my knowledge, we are getting power ups, but I honestly wonder how those are going to turn out (useless camo, 1 layer OS are possibilities). So fast power ups might not help at all. 

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Any Halo game with a motion tracker at high level is going to be stand-off-ish and a "cat and mouse" type of match. This coupled with the fact that there weren't enough power weapon and power up spawns really hindered map movement. Although automatic weapons are more viable in Halo 5, and spawning with one forces players to move around the map more frequently, it just isn't a fun weapon to use for skilled players. I would much rather spawn with a BR and have constant BR battles.

 

They really gotta get rid of motion tracker at the Semi-Pro tier and above.

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They really gotta get rid of motion tracker at the Semi-Pro tier and above.

 

Or all together? Motion Trackers ruin immersion something fierce.

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Any Halo game with a motion tracker at high level is going to be stand-off-ish and a "cat and mouse" type of match. This coupled with the fact that there weren't enough power weapon and power up spawns really hindered map movement. Although automatic weapons are more viable in Halo 5, and spawning with one forces players to move around the map more frequently, it just isn't a fun weapon to use for skilled players. I would much rather spawn with a BR and have constant BR battles.

 

They really gotta get rid of motion tracker at the Semi-Pro tier and above.

Even without a motion tracker there is still 0 incentive to push. 1 on 1 BR battles are a rarity with how easy it is to escape. 

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Or all together? Motion Trackers ruin immersion something fierce.

 

I wish. I really do.

 

Even without a motion tracker there is still 0 incentive to push. 1 on 1 BR battles are a rarity with how easy it is to escape

 

That ties back to motion tracker. It's true that Halo 5 provides players with faster and (at times) unpredictable movement options, but there are bigger beasts to fry concerning escapes. The root of the problem is motion tracker. It can be exploited to the fullest - especially now that players are more agile than ever. I can guarantee if motion tracker is gone, these spartan abilities will be used more frequently as an offensive tool rather than defensive. Not saying escapes would be eliminated completely (they will always occur), but it would really help out. These Halo escape artists wouldn't be able to rely on their precious red dots anymore. As for giving players incentive to push, that goes back to more frequent power weapon and power up spawns. Stalemates on The Pit were often broken because of Rockets, Custom, etc. But I'd rather have even faster spawns.. like every 1min 30sec or so.

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That ties back to motion tracker. It's true that Halo 5 provides players with faster and (at times) unpredictable movement options, but there are bigger beasts to fry concerning escapes. The root of the problem is motion tracker. It can be exploited to the fullest - especially now that players are more agile than ever. I can guarantee if motion tracker is gone, these spartan abilities will be used more frequently as an offensive tool rather than defensive. These Halo escape artists wouldn't be able to rely on their precious red dots anymore. As for giving players incentive to push, that goes back to more frequent power weapon and power up spawns. Stalemates on The Pit were often broken because of Rockets, Custom, etc. But I'd rather have even faster spawns.. like every 1min 30sec or so.

I'm not going to say motion tracker doesn't help in escaping (it obviously does) but I think you're giving it to much credit. I feel like I could take the same escape routes, motion tracker or not, to stay alive. If I'm behind my team and you're still chasing me you are going to die. Spartan Abilities are tooled to be defensive, and the offensive ones aren't that useful. I'm in support of Halo 1 like spawn times, but we still don't know about the rest of the weapon sandbox and how the power ups work. From my experience with the limited sandbox of the Beta, the game just felt and flowed better with AR starts at a high level. 

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The moment I saw agent Locke holding a BR I had a feeling the sandbox would be bad, although we haven't seen it entirely I think its pretty clear just how little thought/effort is given when it comes to weapon design in halo.

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The moment I saw agent Locke holding a BR I had a feeling the sandbox would be bad, although we haven't seen it entirely I think its pretty clear just how little thought/effort is given when it comes to weapon design in halo.

 

Yeah, there was very little in Josh Holme's blog about weapon balancing, compared to other stuff. And "The Sprint" had zero. From an outsider's standpoint, they spend too much time on cluttered, complicated maps and too little on weapon balancing. 

 

Edit: I don't think anyone here realistically thinks that H1/H2 maps were designed with specific nade bounce points, or took even 1/2 the time to design as they seem to need for each H5 map. 

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Yeah, there was very little in Josh Holme's blog about weapon balancing, compared to other stuff. And "The Sprint" had zero. From an outsider's standpoint, they spend too much time on cluttered, complicated maps and too little on weapon balancing.

 

Edit: I don't think anyone here realistically thinks that H1/H2 maps were designed with specific nade bounce points, or took even 1/2 the time to design as they seem to need for each H5 map.

Weapon balancing isn't really the issue, I mean I don't think halo 4 for example was bad when it came to weapon balancing (especially after Turbo) but its weapon design was atrocious .

 

Halo has for many years now (H2 is where it really went down the drain) had an awful weapon arsenal, we saw some relief from this with reach (about half of the weapons from 3 were thrown out, plus you had the GL and FR) but we went right back to the same "you can pick any weapon you want, as long as its a BR" garbage.

 

You can do better 343i

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Imagine having a DMR on Hang Em High. Having a 3x zoom instead of a 2x. That would make the shots a lot easier, thus making people move around even less. 

 

Take this counter-example; Imagine giving the CE pistol a 3x zoom without changing anything else about the game. People would still be moving around the map due to power items spawning so frequently and because the weapon's average and perfect kill time are so far apart. When you talk about a DMR being placed into Halo CE with it's long kill time and identical average/perfect kill times, you're changing many more variables than just the weapon's range. 

 

It sounds like your gripes are more with a utility weapon's zoom than its range. The CE pistol is most definitely a long ranged weapon; I can 3sk people from top red to top blue consistently on Hang 'em. No other utility weapon in the Halo series can do that. Still though, range does not negatively impact map movement in that game because there are many incentives to move. The DMR's range alone does not do this either, but rather the equality of the weapon's minnimum and average kill time, in addition to the lack of incentive to move around the map. 

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Literally 90 percent of H5's stagnation in combat and map flow comes from the inability to R+G and thus effectively pursue a moving target for longer periods of time. Yes, part of it is the cluttered map design and slow spawning of power weapons, but a good Arena shooter does not rely on power items for the basis of map movement its about getting the combat balance right where both the attacking and defending player feel engaged in the battle, proper weapon placement so players are cycling weapons and gaining new advantages to push, and getting down that fluid ballroom dance-like engagement between players.

 

Its safe to say Halo 5 is completely inept in that regard as of right now, when people can make videos of one-shot players just running around like idiots to dance music montages and Truth Slayer is ending in 20-18 scores among pro-level beta players whereas Midship Slayer practically never lasted the duration of the game clock. The offensive player is not only not engaged in lengthier encounters, he feels powerless to finish his own kills which leads to frustration, and which ultimately leads to eventually quitting the game. Movement and shooting should not be "activated" by the push of a button in an Arena shooter its not a switch of stance like a Military shooter, movement+shooting is a constant that is a necessity to fluidly move around the map, engage with enemies over choke-points, and fluidly move from short-mid-long range combat ranges in order to utilize the full spectrum of the Sandbox. Stop-and-pop mechanics like Military shooter sprint+ADS disrupt the combat flow, pacing, and fluidity of this design. Its not about instant "immersion" when it comes to an Arena-style shooter and kiss-kiss bang-bang onto the next enemy, its about engaging players in satisfying lengthier battles of skill and wit, and giving players freedom of movement+free aim to utilize however they want as they fight for weapon/power item choke-points and map control.

 

The power imbalance and stagnant combat flow may not be visible to your average player and he may not be able to explain what is wrong, but he does subconsciously feel the same frustration as the skilled player and the end result is the same. This is a big reason why Reach+H4 had such short life-spans compared to the trilogy games. You can start to see further proof of this repeating pattern of design mistakes in that info-graphic where it shows the average H3 beta time per player vs the average H5 beta time per player. Both beta's essentially showed a small portion of the core game, and its clear H3 on a core gameplay level is a more re-playable Halo game than H5 as of right now and its again because of repeat design mistakes that have objectively lowered the replay value of the game which has resulted in an inferior Halo MP experience.

 

I wish 343 would humor me and find a way to keep the "sprint animation" for the pseudo-realism immersion freaks out there, while allowing the player to shoot while sprinting+thrusting thus restoring the fluidity and power balance to combat. I also think this would speed up the gameplay(unlike the current sprint) and return the fluidity and simplicity of Arena Halo combat that is so apparent in Halo CE+Halo 2. Honestly, I am probably not buying Halo 5 unless I see 343 make major changes, there are developers out there that still care about making a quality FPS that will last more than a month or two. So this is one of my last attempts to clarify my view-point on why Halo MP has diminished in recent years and why H5 will see a similar fate if major changes to the core combat are not made. Its just hard as a long-time Halo player, to watch something great be destroyed by pride and ignorance when it could so easily be avoided by compromise.

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343.

 

You know that system you created for Halo 4 that allowed easy changes to weapon traits, resulting in the Turbo update? We would like that in Halo 5 from the beginning. We would also like you to be open to experimental gametypes with, for instance, a three or four shot Magnum.

 

We would also really like to have some sort of document with the aim assist levels (magnetism, friction angle, red reticle range, etc.) for all of the relevant weapons in Halo 5.

 

We would also really, really like to have in-game control of weapon traits, including rate of fire, damage, aim assist levels, reload time (if it is possible with the engine to put a variable period in the animations), projectile speed, shots per clip, and anything else you or anyone in the community can think of. Give us the tools to make this game function as best it can.

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@@Sal1ent

 

I might be alone here, but I really dislike the names of the ranked tiers "Semi Pro" and "Pro". They just sound really lame to me, why not with such a fantastic universe make some awesome names for the tiers? Something like:

 

 

Bronze

Silver

Gold

Onyx

Promethean

Elite

 

That would sound awesome. Or use something like

 

Grunt

Marine

Promethean

Elite

Spartan

Forerunner

 

 

There's just so many different things you could do. "Semi Pro" and "Pro" are relics from MLG's old stages and they sounds so cringeworthy to me. League of Legends has "Masters" and "Challenger" they sound awesome and worthy. 

 

As I said, I could be alone in this but I just think you can do so much better.

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There's no way the Magnum would be buffed to the same point as CE, I'm sure Frankie himself would prevent it from happening because he seems to hate a 3sk Magnum. But it can be between that and what it is right now (5sk -> 4sk).

 

BRs are worth getting because shooting with them is significantly easier and less punishing than using the Magnum. You place them in key areas near choke points, to keep the focus of combat in the open rather than inside bases. If, like I said, the Magnum kept its lower RRR instead of being the same as other precision weapons (BR included) then it could be a even more noticeable upgrade from what you spawn with. The maps just need a respectable amount of them.

 

The Magnum is meant to be a powerful weapon, but very difficult to shoot at a distance vs. other precision weapons you pick up on the map. On Truth for instance, you can easily hold down either tower using a BR/DMR and shoot people across the map with ease, whereas a Magnum will require extreme skill to get a perfect kill at that range. It's well worth moving around the map for.

 

Otherwise I agree, H5 does need faster spawning power weapons, and we need to see some power-ups get implemented (camo, 300% overshield, speed boost, customs). 

While I do want to keep the Magnum as a difficult weapon to use, I think it was a little too punishing in the beta and could do with a slightly longer red reticle range. It doesn't have enough power behind it to make up for how easy the BR and DMR were to use. A less realistic option would be to make the BR and DMR much more difficult to use.

 

Spawn us with a tuned Magnum, and put 1 or 2 of each scoped gun on the maps.

 

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