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Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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Hey look, new screenshot. Looks like Locke has an eject button on the back of his helmet.

Halo-5-Campaign-Locke.png

Illuminati confirmed

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First of all, these elements aren't removed, just have lesser importance/requirement for success. Saying sprint totally removes shooting skill requirement etc, and therefore lessens the overall skillgap is incorrect. (If that's what you were implying with this text, correct me if I'm wrong)

No disagreement here. Sprint makes things like shooting less important. It is not subjective though that things like shooting are more demanding than sprinting. If I were to hand the controller to someone that has never played Halo before and instructed him to sprint to a location on the map, he would be able to do that 100% of the time. If I told that player to 3sk someone on the other team, that would be a much more difficult task for him to accomplish. Even if I did not tell him where to sprint to, he would be able to notice that sprinting away from 4 enemies clustered together is a more logical decision than to sprint toward them unless he had the capability to take them all out at once with a power item. Shooting is a much more demanding skill. 

 

 

 

@@Maximus IL

Primary Outcome:  Did anyone provide empirical data demonstrating a decrease in the aggregate spread of player performance between no-sprint and sprint games?  No.  This data does not yet exist and is not likely to exist in the future.

 

 

 

 

Secondly, of course total skill gap wont be exactly equal, but trying to quantify that is such an incredibly complicated equation that is also rife with subjectivity, is an impossible task. Because of this, the argument will always revert to mine versus your opinion.

 

https://youtu.be/qGY7flT8e_E

 

https://youtu.be/Jkxz3onj8FM

 

These videos serve as objective proof that sprint lowers the skill gap. We can see several instances where the sprint mechanic allowed the lower skilled player to escape where if it was not there, the gap between the better and worse player would have been one kill. The better and worse player are instead separated by an amount of remaining shield rather than one kill.  

 

You both agree that sprint makes the game slower and allows for mistakes to go either unpunished or punished by a lesser degree. If you can kill me in .6 seconds, I only have .6 seconds to react by either escaping death or retaliating. If I have 1.5-2 seconds before I can be killed, I have much more room to be forgiven for my mistakes and will be separated from the better player by a smaller amount. Sprint, among other things, adds to Halo being a slower game and therefore contributes to a smaller margin between better skilled players and lesser skilled players in theory. Check the videos above to see it in practice. 

 

You both make a good point though regarding the manner in which we argue against sprint to 343. Even though sprint does objectively lower the skill gap, telling 343 "Sprint sucks because it makes the game less competitive," is not a very effective argument because 343 does not give a shit about the skill gap. Increasing the skill gap has never been done by any Halo developer; this has been painfully obvious since Halo 2. 

 

Saying that I don't like sprint because it makes me feel weak since people can escape death so easily will probably speak louder to 343. Telling them it makes the game less competitive is not an inaccurate statement, but they do not care if their game is competitive or not, regardless if they are funding Halo tournaments now. 

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Yeah its way too easy to escape in H5. Sprint needs to go or at the very least you shouldn't be able to sprint at all when not 100% shields (or at the very least, sprint much slower at reduced shields). 

 

At that point though, you're putting in so much work to balance sprint when you could just remove it and up the base speed/strafe like they're doing anyways. 

 

Blahhh...

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I don't even know why i'm posting this LOL

 

636fba1bf63094f32033cd9f3dfe0101.png

-Fuck you

-I'm sorry that you're too used to casual games that can't kill you

-Sure

-Ha, fuck you

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-Fuck you

-I'm sorry that you're too used to casual games that can't kill you

-Sure

-Ha, fuck you

Halo 4 had a great campaign.

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Halo 4's campaign story would have been more solid if it didn't solely rely on the Cortana's ensuing death and the whole "UNSC/ONI ARE ASSHOLES". Also the Didact's lines kind of left a bland taste in my mouth. Like it's been done to death in other series. Not to mention the holes that were never given proper resolution, like why would the UNSC's most advanced (and Forerunner-powered) star ship have an EMP fallout going through a FORERUNNER SHIELD WORLD's entrance?

 

More importantly why isn't the Chief's armor called "CENTURION" if that's what Fred, Kelly, and Linda wore? I don't just chalk it up to artistic liberties BTW, that's just lazy.

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When you say campaign, are you speaking to the plot or the level design?

One is boring and full of holes, and the other is melodramatic and outclassed by the earlier installments.

 

You may decide which is which.

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Sprint is a pointless and in some ways, detrimental mechanic, that being said its effect on the actual games is severly overstated.

 

it reminds me of how people kept saying "halo 4 isn't an arena shooter because loadouts" then they made it equal starts and people started making up more and more reasons as to why they didn't think it was an arena shooter, people like to try and make certain aspects of the game a far bigger deal than they deserve to be, for example the amount of disdain for medals and armor customization is absurd and frankly in no way matters, people need to try and be more rationale and objective.

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One is boring and full of holes, and the other is melodramatic and outclassed by the earlier installments.

 

You may decide which is which.

I'm in agreement with you, was just curious what @@ZeALoTT found "great".

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Halo 4 had a great campaign.

I agree, I really enjoyed the campaign. One thing 343 can do well is tell a story.

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I agree, I really enjoyed the campaign. One thing 343 can do well is tell a story.

If by well, you mean riddled with holes and several failures in logic and general storytelling technique, then yeah. It was told very well.

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If by well, you mean riddled with holes and several failures in logic and general storytelling technique, then yeah. It was told very well.

explain please.

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I agree, I really enjoyed the campaign. One thing 343 can do well is tell a story.

 

They sure can, they've been doing it since MCC came out.

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Halo 4's campaign was 50/50.

 

Missions were riddled with button pressing and defend the area sections, the gameplay just wasn't original. Occasional moments were cool like the Ghost escape and the Pelican sequence on Forerunner, but the gunplay from mission to mission became very repetitive. 

As for story – the story itself was actually incredible, and tied in perfectly with the books they released before the game came out. Sadly, 90% of Halo fans didn't read these meaning they couldn't appreciate the true depth of the story, or couldn't understand it all together.

 

Also, I wasn't a fan of the emotional ending, but it was mostly just the dialogue and performances. Personal preference on that one...

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explain please.

The plot was constantly dropped at the drop of a hat, a shit ton of external media is necessary to comprehend what's going on half the time (and even so there are plenty of things that still don't make sense, like, you know, how MC is the chosen one because they somehow introduced luck into his family line's genome), there a very large disconnect between what we're supposed to feel and what we actually feel given that a lot of information is told rather than felt (and if you think that that's subjective, think again. That super weapon never once posed a threat to us, the player, at any point. There was never any pressure or time limit or anything. They just decided to segregate story and gameplay for God knows why, even though there was ample opportunity to take advantage of that. In addition, they try to pass off a doctor who knows us but whom we don't know or care about as some emotional collateral damage that just doesn't work, because we don't care. She's NPC with a voice #37457, and they've been dying by the thousands since the first game), and an ending which is nonsensical and horribly obvious (it's like they didn't even try to add suspense or surprise). And there's still plenty more to talk about.

 

The only time that they got it right was the first mission. It was rather well done, explained the scenario rather quickly and it both was sensational and established the setting. It also complemented the gameplay rather well.

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When you say campaign, are you speaking to the plot or the level design?

Plot and art. Level design was... meh. Halo 4 had arguably the strongest single player experiences out of all.

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They sure can, they've been doing it since MCC came out.

Even though a shit load of lore stories have been told since then. Halo lore is being handled amazingly by 343

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Even though a shit load of lore stories have been told since then. Halo lore is being handled amazingly by 343

 

I meant the bullshit stories about why MCC was broken.

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The plot was constantly dropped at the drop of a hat, a shit ton of external media is necessary to comprehend what's going on half the time (and even so there are plenty of things that still don't make sense, like, you know, how MC is the chosen one because they somehow introduced luck into his family line's genome), there a very large disconnect between what we're supposed to feel and what we actually feel given that a lot of information is told rather than felt (and if you think that that's subjective, think again. That super weapon never once posed a threat to us, the player, at any point. There was never any pressure or time limit or anything. They just decided to segregate story and gameplay for God knows why, even though there was ample opportunity to take advantage of that. In addition, they try to pass off a doctor who knows us but whom we don't know or care about as some emotional collateral damage that just doesn't work, because we don't care. She's NPC wit ha voice #37457, and they've been dying by the thousands since the first game), and an ending which is nonsensical and horribly obvious (it's like they didn't even try to add suspense or surprise). And there's still plenty more to talk about.

 

The only time that they got it right was the first mission. It was rather well done, explained the scenario rather quickly and it both was sensational and established the setting. It also complemented the gameplay rather well.

All subjective. Dedicated fans of the lore hail the game, but let's get into this. The whole game was about "feel" the game was about Chiefs relationship with Cortana, who is a huge part of his identity; it humanizes chief. We finally get to see this stoic myth struggle internally. We have actual character development as well, notably chief, lasky and others.

 

I don't understand what is "nonsensical" about anything in the ending. If you're talking about cortana saving chief, its fucking 2552, a sci-fi game. And explain what you meant by "segregate gameplay and story"? If you want to pick out realism and logic issues with Bungie's halo, we'd be here all day. As much as I love those stories, they were simple with little character development bar ODST and Reach.

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All subjective. Dedicated fans of the lore hail the game, but let's get into this. The whole game was about "feel" the game was about Chiefs relationship with Cortana, who is a huge part of his identity; it humanizes chief. We finally get to see this stoic myth struggle internally. We have actual character development as well, notably chief, lasky and others.

 

I don't understand what is "nonsensical" about anything in the ending. If you're talking about cortana saving chief, its fucking 2552, a sci-fi game. And explain what you meant by "segregate gameplay and story"? If you want to pick out realism and logic issues with Bungie's halo, we'd be here all day. As much as I love those stories, they were simple with little character development bar ODST and Reach.

It's not subjective when there are proper techniques for the expression of emotion in storytelling. Halo 4 payed attention to virtually none of them. And lolno. There was no struggle. Everything was so static that it's disgusting. The Captain who sparked that 'conflict"? He was an easily identifiable asshole with no character of his own. He's a cardboard cutout used for the specific purpose of causing that conflict, and thus he's not a real "person." And the "conflict" that he caused wasn't much. No questioning of orders versus ethics, no internal conflict whatsoever. And he just gets away with whatever he wants to do anyway. It didn't humanize him, it just showed that he cares about a piece of software and can get away with it because the XO was all like "It's k, Chief. Here, have a Pelican." He might have emotions, but there's no conflict if there's no consequences. And he just drops the "fix Cortana" plot like it was nothing. You can argue that there was 'something better to do" but Chief doesn't even react. He does nothing. There's no inner dialogue between him and Cortana discussing how pressing saving the galaxy is over fixing one AI. There's no accompanying themes present because they don't do anything. And then she "dies" anyway. Whoopee fucking doo. And even that isn't explained. She's software. "Most of me is down there." WHAT THE FUCK DOES THAT MEAN. YOU'RE A COMPUTER PROGRAM THAT LIVES IN A CHIP IN CHIEF'S SKULL. COPY AND PASTE YOURSELF OUT OF THERE. Maybe if she said "I dont' have enough power to beam me up here" or something like that, then I might believe it. But they don't say anything.

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I mean 343 said they did the beta early specifically for changes. I feel like saying "they'd have to rework stuff" isn't a valid reason. Our feedback is to add an obj and that's what they should try to make happen.

 

I simply don't get why they didnt have one in the first place. All it does is increase the meta.

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In terms of level design, I felt like Halo 4 was easily the worst of the series. Very boring and linear.  That being said, I always felt like the script was particularly good (I'm looking at the Didact's lines here) and the plot was definitely a good twist on the Halo game.  Very different having a single antagonist as opposed to 1 - 3's looming and imminent doom of the universe is everywhere. So plotwise, I'd say it's good. Maybe not the most original concept, and kinda difficult to follow unless you've read the books (which I don't necessarily think is good) but definitely a solid plot. Do I replay it a lot? No, it's very boring to play through, and very unlike the original trilogy/Reach/ODST. But I do enjoy watching all the cutscenes on youtube :)

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