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Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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The skill gap isn't equal between the two cases because losing all of those elements is not fully compensated by the increase in judgement skill of when/where to sprint. It makes the game more one-dimensional because there aren't as many skills to master and the enriched skill isn't as demanding of the player as the skills which have been lost. This reduces the skill gap.

First of all, these elements aren't removed, just have lesser importance/requirement for success. Saying sprint totally removes shooting skill requirement etc, and therefore lessens the overall skillgap is incorrect. (If that's what you were implying with this text, correct me if I'm wrong)

 

Secondly, of course total skill gap wont be exactly equal, but trying to quantify that is such an incredibly complicated equation that is also rife with subjectivity, is an impossible task. Because of this, the argument will always revert to mine versus your opinion. Evidence of this is 343's vision and optimism that all of the movement abilities will make for an incredibly skilful game due to all the skill surrounding the use-judgement, and execution of said abilities.

 

Their opinion is on the abilities are true - there will be a lot of skill in those things, but they wont necessarily make for an overall more or less skilled game. And perhaps a more important and easier to answer question is, will they make for a more or less enjoyable game?

 

You guys are right though- sprint does have a lot of obvious and significant negative effects on certain elements and dynamics of the game;

-Map enlargement / less three dimensional combat

-Less punishment for dying (get into good positions faster after dying)

-Less physical skill requirement in executing general gameplay functions (less shooting/aiming emphasis)

-Harder player tracking/more perceived randomness

-Less reward for power position control

-And perhaps more frustrating overall? (More people getting away 1-shot, more 'random' backsmacks)

 

Just want to end on the idea that more emphasis on shooting and killing, is much more exciting and enjoyable to watch and play, than an emphasis on escape and movement.

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Clearly, one-life gametypes are great for the competitive scene, I mean, just look at how intense the final round of the Halo 4 global championship was. Also, the stream numbers increased significantly on Sunday during all those five minute rounds on Shrine TS, CLG vs Noble Black. There's no way Breakout can fail! /sarcasm?

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I think the first thing that needs to be changed about Breakout is the shields. These lowered shields make the game feel to fast, make the skill factor of every Halo engagement feel to fast.

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Breakout Slayer = Reduced shields. Far too many are loving this gametype. Really think they should keep the pickup and play/fast gameplay.

 

Breakout Obj (competitive play) = Full shields. Would make the Obj realistically a feasible strategy for victory. 

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Breakout Slayer = Reduced shields. Far too many are loving this gametype. Really think they should keep the pickup and play/fast gameplay.

 

Breakout Obj (competitive play) = Full shields. Would make the Obj realistically a feasible strategy for victory. 

 

If they do end up doing a Breakout Obj I'd prefer them make it an entirely different gamemode. Having Invasion and Invasion Slayer in Reach was stupid because the gametypes were so drastically different yet were still in the same playlist.

 

I don't see 343 creating an objective round based gametype (for the launch of Halo 5), but if they do it should be played on the default maps, not the Breakout Arena.

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If they do end up doing a Breakout Obj I'd prefer them make it an entirely different gamemode. Having Invasion and Invasion Slayer in Reach was stupid because the gametypes were so drastically different yet were still in the same playlist.

 

I don't see 343 creating an objective round based gametype (for the launch of Halo 5), but if they do it should be played on the default maps, not the Breakout Arena.

Well, breakout obj on normal maps*

 

There. :P

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It's what sprint does to map design that makes me very opposed against it.

Agree with this for sure, the other FUD being thrown around here, not so much.

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Did someone really just say there is such thing as, "Sprint Skill?"

 

Welp...... there's something I had hoped I would never read on a Halo forum.

 

urkel.gif

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So today I've seen people arguing for bloom, and now sprint. 

 

Think I might delete my account on here.

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You guys are right though- sprint does have a lot of obvious and significant negative effects on certain elements and dynamics of the game;

-Map enlargement / less three dimensional combat

-Less punishment for dying (get into good positions faster after dying)

-Less physical skill requirement in executing general gameplay functions (less shooting/aiming emphasis)

-Harder player tracking/more perceived randomness

-Less reward for power position control

-And perhaps more frustrating overall? (More people getting away 1-shot, more 'random' backsmacks)

 

All of those make me not want to play the game, when they can be avoided by a really simple removal of an ability that's not needed nor -by this community, reddit and waypoint- wanted.

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So today I've seen people arguing for bloom, and now sprint.

 

Think I might delete my account on here.

I don't think anyone is actually arguing for sprint at all. Everyone seems to be quite clear on that. It seems to be more about how sprint will/does affect the "skillgap"

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So today I've seen people arguing for bloom, and now sprint. 

 

Think I might delete my account on here.

Who's arguing for sprint and who's arguing for bloom? 

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But why is sprint even being discussed? I've read through the arguments and its just annoying seeing people give sprint ANY positive credit. The fucking thing ruins setups, forces maps to be huge which alters and breaks the entire game, it allows ******* who push out too far to run away, it slows down gameplay, and so on and so on. In NO way does it increase skillgap and I refuse to discuss otherwise. I'm not being arrogant or ignorant either. Its just a fact.

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but guys, Batchyy said in a Twitch Chat that he loves Sprint, so therefore it's a good mechanic!

 

...

 

but honestly just give me fast static timers in H5 and I will most likely buy it

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My god Kurtis is clearly not advocating sprint he is just stating that it's determent is not as simple as people make it.
Get off the hate train.

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Being purposely-ignorant towards dynamics of an element you dislike doesn't make you right about it.

 

All I am trying to do is be more reasonable with 343. I accept the value in their additions and intentions, and in doing so can present a more respectful and convincing argument against those additions.

 

I'm just really tired of the years or ignorant sprint hate which makes our community look like a bunch of immature whiny brats - we are smarter than that so should act like it, especially now that we know that @@Sal1ent @@Frankie and @@Deez are lurking

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Being purposely-ignorant towards dynamics of an element you dislike doesn't make you right about it.

All I am trying to do is be more reasonable with 343. I accept the value in their additions and intentions, and in doing so can present a more respectful and convincing argument against those additions.

I'm just really tired of the years or ignorant sprint hate which makes our community look like a bunch of immature whiny brats - we are smarter than that so should act like it, especially now that we know that @@Sal1ent @@Frankie and @@Deez are lurking

So sprint is included and we get our "turn shit off" options in Halo 5. Let's say we end up right where started again for the 3rd time... What then? No sprint? Move on? Play MCC forever?

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Being purposely-ignorant towards dynamics of an element you dislike doesn't make you right about it.

 

All I am trying to do is be more reasonable with 343. I accept the value in their additions and intentions, and in doing so can present a more respectful and convincing argument against those additions.

 

I'm just really tired of the years or ignorant sprint hate which makes our community look like a bunch of immature whiny brats - we are smarter than that so should act like it, especially now that we know that @@Sal1ent @@Frankie and @@Deez are lurking

 

You are telling me that in the years of "ignorant sprint" hate - that there has not been one time that this community has posed a mature, rational, thought out and respectful argument?  Even in the present situation?

 

Let me let you in on a secret,  that is not only flat out wrong, but has been done on numerous of occasions for multiple different issues.

 

Your post baffles me - sure there are people that spew hate (shoot, on frequent occasion I do) but this whole, "Lets give 343 the benefit of the doubt" crap, in my eyes, is just that, crap.  They have done nothing to deserve my respect as a gaming studio and have only continued the downfall of my favorite franchise.  And before you, or anyone else throw out the, "They DO LISTEN, see they got rid of weapon loadouts!" (or whatever other change you care to mention) - I can name 10 other things they added into H5 that nobody wants or asked for.

 

It breaks my heart to see Halo where it is today - and I will stop there, because I could write pages about this.

To sum it up - I think your post is incorrect and misrepresents the majority of members in these forums.

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We're just not being listened to.

 

And its apparent that 343 aren't being listened to either. What's not to understand about this:

 

I accept the value in their additions and intentions, and in doing so can present a more respectful and convincing argument against those additions.

 

 

 

Let's say we end up right where started again for the 3rd time...

 

 That's what I'm afraid of, that's why I'm posting. The best way to convince someone to change their stance on something is to acknowledge their point of view, because if you don't listen to them, why would they listen to you?

 

You are telling me that in the years of "ignorant sprint" hate - that there has not been one time that this community has posed a mature, rational, thought out and respectful argument?  Even in the present situation?

 

Let me let you in on a secret,  that is not only flat out wrong, but has been done on numerous of occasions for multiple different issues.

No I did not say that. I said I am tired of the ignorant sprint hate, and by that I meant that we never acknowledge the actual changes to the skill gap sprint causes, and that the overall impression our community gives is "New shit sucks, CE for life"

 

And it is no secret that we have written essays upon essays of completely accurate, reasonable and legitimate feedback to 343 and that a lot of it has been ignored, but that doesn't mean that giving up will make things better.

Maybe if you want to be constructive you can link to some of these posts that relate to make them more accessible to 343, instead of complaining about it? I don't know, I guess I just like to stay constructive rather than be bitter about things that have been and gone.

 

P.S. I'm on your side guys :prayers: 

 

 

 

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good lord...no one should be defending sprint in any capacity. Is that how far we have fallen? "Hey, look at the good that sprint offers"...no man....no. It's a cancer to any and everything competitive Halo....shit it even ruins some of the more casual aspects of Halo.

 

A lot of people have given up thinking what we say matters, so they just bend over and take it.

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No I did not say that. I said I am tired of the ignorant sprint hate, and in saying so was meaning that the overall impression our community gives is "New shit sucks, CE for life".

 

And it is no secret that we have written essays upon essays of complete accurate and legitimate feedback to 343 and that a lot of it has been ignored, but that doesn't mean that giving up will make things better.

Maybe if you want to be constructive you can link to some of these posts that relate to make them more accessible to 343, instead of complaining about it? I don't know, I guess I just like to stay constructive rather than be bitter about things that have been and gone.

 

P.S. I'm on your side guys :prayers: 

 

 

 

 

So you aknowledge that there HAS been constructive criticism on numerous occasions, and the majority of it is ignored.

So what do you expect? the majority of people to be happy about being ignored year after  year after year after  year while Halo gets worse and worse and worse?

 

Seeing how you aknowledge that many people HAVE attempted in a respectful way to give feedback, I am not going to link any posts.  The three people that you have tagged in hopes of soliciting a response already have heard everything that this community has to say - and you know what we get? Nothing but politically correct, cookie cutter, bland responses.  They are still telling us they didnt know about the issues with MCC when they released it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Are you serious?  Is this real life?!?!

 

I do not fault anyone in here for complaining, shoot there needs to be somewhere they can do it, and in my eyes it is fully acceptable (to a certain extent).

You can only kick a dog so many times. 

But keep fighting the good fight brother - 343 will be glad to receive  your 60$ - and in the end, thats their goal.

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