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Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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@@Frankie @@Sal1ent

why does Xbox promote CODChamps more then the HCS? On the eve of the HCS finals this is what is on the Xbox Facebook page. Pretty sad if you ask me.  

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@@Frankie why dose Xbox promote CODChamps more then the HCS? 

This. This is something i actually want to know. It's the Xbox's flagship title, and the first developer run eSports league for console.

 

Frankie pls.

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@@Frankie why dose Xbox promote CODChamps more then the HCS? 

 

I hate to say this, but because CoD champs makes money. HCS is probably running at a loss right now as it starts to grow. It's just simple business, nothing wrong with it.

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I hate to say this, but because CoD champs makes money. HCS is probably running at a loss right now as it starts to grow. It's just simple business, nothing wrong with it.

All the more reason to promote it. It will never grow if you dont. 

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We deliberately gave thruster a slight trade-off for shooting to balance it in combat. Since it's sudden and unpredictable (you don't know when I'm going to use it) we want to give the opposing player a split second to read the move and react. If you are skilled enough you can see your opponent begin to thrust, read the direction that he is moving in and adjust to make the headshot for the kill. The delay is very slight, but important for balance.

Couldn't the same be said about crouching or jumping? Crouching isn't as great of an advantage, but jumping in Halo has always been pretty high; although it's predictable once they're in the air, that initial leap can throw off someone's aim in the same way thrusting could.

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@@Frankie @@Sal1ent

why does Xbox promote CODChamps more then the HCS? On the eve of the HCS finals this is what is on the Xbox Facebook page. Pretty sad if you ask me.  

If it's anytihng Major Nelson (700k+ followrs) tweeted it

 

 

But I do have to agree, not sure if 343i can actually controll MS promoting it but I would like to see more. Hell, Xbox tweeted this recently.

 

 

Maybe Activision pays for advertising, just a guess though.

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@@Frankie @@Sal1ent I have a few suggestions for Halo 5. It would be very cool to bring back the Halo CE pistol as a map pick up legendary weapon. It would be cool to have customized logo's for team play online and for the HCS. Halo 5 needs a instant replay feature added to the spectator mode. While watching the HCS tournament there were so many awesome plays that could have only been seen unless you were watching live or scavenge through hours of footage after the vid is archived. The casters should be able to just replay highlights as they happen or right after the game has ended. They did replay one highlight but they spent 10 min fast forwarding a film to watch a 10 second clip. Just looks unprofessional for a esport game. The amount of games it takes to be ranked should be raised to 20 with the first 10 not counting against you. No one should be ranked on a game they don't know how to play yet. It takes about 10 games just to get the feel for it. The max rank level achievable should be Onyx. No one should get the max rank in 10 games. Make them work for it. Keep people playing. This will still separate the good from the bad some what. Halo 5 visuals look very bad on recorded video or a live stream due to it being very dark or very bright or very foggy. If it is to be a esport that should be taken into consideration. One last thing bring back clans.

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@@Sal1ent

 

I think that's smart you added that delay, but it's contributing to the OP defensive capabilities in Halo 5. Which is why you see matches sometimes not go the full score limit and play out slow and methodical with a lot of popping in and out of cover.

 

Giving the ability to shoot while thrusting would be amazing for the offensive capabilities it could provide. Not to mention the spectacle and amazing plays it would produce... would be so good for making those amazing plays and really promote a skill gap. 

 

Hopefully you guys can at least try it out. It would seriously boost the game in so many better ways. 

 

Thanks for coming back and responding whenever your busy schedule allows it!

 

Cheers

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We deliberately gave thruster a slight trade-off for shooting to balance it in combat. Since it's sudden and unpredictable (you don't know when I'm going to use it) we want to give the opposing player a split second to read the move and react. If you are skilled enough you can see your opponent begin to thrust, read the direction that he is moving in and adjust to make the headshot for the kill. The delay is very slight, but important for balance.

 

 

 

 

 

Ya, but since you cannot shoot while doing it people ONLY use it as an escape tool.

 

What is the point of using it in combat? Sure you are harder to hit, but it is also impossible for you to hit your opponent while using it.

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We deliberately gave thruster a slight trade-off for shooting to balance it in combat. Since it's sudden and unpredictable (you don't know when I'm going to use it) we want to give the opposing player a split second to read the move and react. If you are skilled enough you can see your opponent begin to thrust, read the direction that he is moving in and adjust to make the headshot for the kill. The delay is very slight, but important for balance.

If we are able to shoot while thrusting, then it becomes a more competitive tool since it would be an offensive mechanic. You say that the opposing player can predict where they will end up, but the problem here is that at most times, they use it to get behind a piece of geometry and Sprint away. Rarely did I see the thrust mechanic not used as runaway mechanic since it makes no sense to use while in a gunfight because of the delay. It is a 'get out of jail' free card that recharges near instantly. Was that the goal of the Thrust ability or were you guys hoping it would be used as a glorified strafing?

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If we are able to shoot while thrusting, then it becomes a more competitive tool since it would be an offensive mechanic. You say that the opposing player can predict where they will end up, but the problem here is that at most times, they use it to get behind a piece of geometry and Sprint away. Rarely did I see the thrust mechanic not used as runaway mechanic since it makes no sense to use while in a gunfight because of the delay. It is a 'get out of jail' free card that recharges near instantly. Was that the goal of the Thrust ability or were you guys hoping it would be used as a glorified strafing?

 

 

Couldn't agree more. There's definitely a rampant escape issue in H5. Matches, especially at higher up ranks, play so slow and methodical. Rarely do people use thrust as an offensive too, if ever. It's always to get behind cover or to run away, rarely is it used to win a gun fight since TTK is at the point where those situations rarely come about.

 

I don't think most players, especially casual players, will notice that slight delay and react properly to it. I really, sincerely think being able to shoot while thrusting is in H5's best interest.

 

I actually really like the thrust in H5 (maybe it has a bigger range and shorter CD than I'd like), and I really think this is the only thing holding it back from really shining. It would really become a show-stopper in pro play and provide an enormous boost to the skill gap. 

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We deliberately gave thruster a slight trade-off for shooting to balance it in combat. Since it's sudden and unpredictable (you don't know when I'm going to use it) we want to give the opposing player a split second to read the move and react. If you are skilled enough you can see your opponent begin to thrust, read the direction that he is moving in and adjust to make the headshot for the kill. The delay is very slight, but important for balance.

I disagree with the notion that thrusting is "sudden and unpredictable," simply put its no different really from ghandi hopping or strong siding (in the context of predictability of course), simply put its just another ability that players have and can use to mess you up, when someone uses it exactly is unknown but you assume they can use it at any time so you take that into account when in battle, for instance if I bring someone down to 1-shot its almost guaranteed they'll try to evade that finishing blow so I would either thrust at the same time (to avoid them connecting with me) or I would just sweep shot in a way that makes it difficult to dodge,

 

there shouldn't be any tradeoff for outmanuvering someone with thrusters, in the same way there isn't for outstrafing them, at least try it, not saying we need another beta or anything, just saying you should give thrusting+shooting a chance, you might like it :)

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I disagree with the notion that thrusting is "sudden and unpredictable," simply put its no different really from ghandi hopping or strong siding (in the context of predictability of course), simply put its just another ability that players have and can use to mess you up, when someone uses it exactly is unknown but you assume they can use it at any time so you take that into account when in battle, for instance if I bring someone down to 1-shot its almost guaranteed they'll try to evade that finishing blow so I would either thrust at the same time (to avoid them connecting with me) or I would just sweep shot in a way that makes it difficult to dodge,

 

there shouldn't be any tradeoff for outmanuvering someone with thrusters, in the same way there isn't for outstrafing them, at least try it, not saying we need another beta or anything, just saying you should give thrusting+shooting a chance, you might like it :)

It's also worth mentioning that what makes strafing different from any previous Halo game's outmaneuvering options, thrust is a one-time thing that can be accounted for once it happens. You can keep this in mind to save your own thrust in order to mess up their aim.

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Advice for releasing the game: DO NOT RELEASE IT A WEEK BEFORE CALL OF DUTY. This will cut the population in half and it will never recover. Either release the game a month or two before CoD, or release it after CoD.

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@@Sal1ent

 

It's awesome to not only see these definitive answers from you but also some well thought out questions and concerns from users on these last couple of pages. 

 

As far thruster pack I have an idea... To reduce the problems that being able to thrust and shoot would cause what if instead of of having one long thrust (lets just say 6 feet) each spartan had two short thrusts (3 feet)? It would be similar to the Atlas Titan in Titanfall which had the ability to dash twice, but each dash wasn;t that long (for the scale of a Titan that is). That way you could allow players to shoot and thurst at the same time because the distance traveled by a spartan's head in one thrust wouldn't be much larger than a.) jumping or b.) crouching.

 

OR maybe make it to where to have the option to thrust (6 feet) once within one charge or side step (3 feet) twice but only while on the ground. This would make gunfights more exciting and strategic but it also wouldn't mess with the scaling of the maps because you'd still have the option to thrust when you need to make a long jump or evade a rocket or whatever. 

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I started catching up about when Frank first appeared, but I'm still about ten pages behind. Forgive me if this post is completely out of place, as I have no idea what the discussion is at this point in time, but I think it would do us good to lighten up, even if the following is slightly morbid.

This is another thing. Lots of minor changes make it really hard to get that Halo feeling. It's like if you changed the Milennium Falcon to a B-17. It just doesn't sit right.

I remembered this comparison when I heard the news about Harrison Ford today. I don't have all the details, but apparently he crashed a WWII-era plane.

 

Harrison Ford = Han Solo, who piloted the Millennium Falcon = B-17 = WWII plane.

 

Anyway, just a coincidence.

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respect

 

Thanks for dropping by :) I have a question for you. Please recognize it because were all thinking it and it doesn't seem to be clicking at 343i from what we've seen. We understand there a lots of different opinions on Halo and what it means to change the core of Halo. Thinking in the primitive forms of casual vs competitive (especially when it comes to sprint) why does the casual crowd have a say?

 

1) They will buy the game and stop playing within 1 month whether it has these abilities in it or not.

2) They had their chance in Halo Reach and Halo 4, both flopped. Why do they keep getting chances while our core is never seen to?

3) Competitive players stick around. The numbers are obvious.

 

I have a few bullet points I would like to point out and one huge point I'd like to drive home. Please take my feedback <3 I appreciate everything you've done and I know our views may be different, but our end goal is the same.

 

  • Why is the Halo twitter so silent? There should be 2-3 tweets a day from the official twitter.
  • What is some feedback that you have gathered from Season 1 of the HCS? T2 is quoted as saying it is run very poorly from 343i's end and nobody would invest in it. Is this something that is likely to be addressed or something that 343i is aware of?
  • Ranking is coming soon is still in each playlist description in MCC. It's been over 100 days, are we going to wait another 100 or will updates pick up the pace now?
  • Why is individual performance taken into consideration at all in Halo 5 ranking system? I thought we went through this in Halo 4? Why are semi pro's matching both pro's and bronze players in the same match?
  • PLEASE allow us to shoot 100% of the time. I'm talking about while clambering, sprinting, thrusting, etc. ONLY when I'm charging up ground pound or holding an objective should I not be able to shoot. These abilities are purely defensive and so far Halo 5 is the SLOWEST paced Halo to ever be developed.
  • If you called up Eric Hewitt   :ghost: right now and asked him if sprint belongs in Halo, would he tell you yes or no?

 

My final point is this. This graphic (spoiler tagged below) is a perfect example to help prove a point.

 

 

Iwt3GsD.jpg

 

 

Nobody see's sprint and buys the game. Nobody.

 

Those who 343i is appealing to with the mobility options (which are purely defensive) will pick up the game and play for a month.

Those who 343i is considering the niche community will pick up the game and play forever.

 

These numbers show that when a game is truly Halo to the core, the fans will play it until they die. Halo 5 drew people in initially (as did every other Halo), but it failed to retain them. Isn't that alarming? That's the exact same fate as Halo 4. No retention value. The gimmicks and the flashy graphics draw them in for 2.5 hours but they don't stick around. I'm sorry if I'm coming off as rude, I know you take your work very seriously and have pride in it. I'm just pointing out my observations. I have many casual and hardcare Halo friends. Every single one has come to me and told me that Halo 5 was much less fun and they didn't understand why. It had all the flashes and the explosions. It wasn't Halo at the core and that's why we are seeing these numbers. Please don't take offense and share your thoughts. I'm honestly open-minded and interested in your viewpoint.

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I also feel that the biggest issue with these new and old spartan abilities is how often your weapon is taken away just to perform them. I believe that you should be able to use your weapon at all times including while using the Clamber ability and that aspect alone would separate Halo 5 from all other games with similar mechanics like CoD and Crysis.

 

Halo 5 has potential but the abilities need to be more offensive in nature and based more around smooth quick movement while having your weapon at the ready at all times.

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Ive been reading this thread for about an hour now catching up on all the Frankie stuff that I missed. I skipped over a few pages but I'm confident this wasn't answered by either him or Sal1ent.

 

Why is sprint still in Halo?

 

This one ability is literally going to kill Halo. It makes the game so similar to every other FPS our there. Thats not what we want. We want something different to play. I don't spend $60 on new games to play a different version of it. Give me something different.

 

I can live with some of these abilities. Hell, I even enjoy some of them. But sprint butchers everything. Not only does solid gameplay make a game, but the maps we're given play a HUGE role in that as well. Halo Reach and Halo 4 have had by far the worst maps in the series. Why? Sprint stretches these maps out so much and makes them huge. This remake of Midship that is supposed to be "small" to "midsize" is fucking huge. If you want the player to feel like they're moving faster, bump up base player movement.

 

Why do you have to appease to all of these "different crowds"?

 

The fans of the original trilogy have been here from the get go. Why are we the ones that are given a fucking toggle button and basically go told to scratch our asses? Why were we handed something we never asked for that dramatically changed EVERYTHING about Halo. Your Halo version has failed twice now in terms of sustained population. Go give them a toggle sprint to play in customs.

 

And as far as the other crowds that were referred to like campaigners, montagers, grifball, SWAT, speed runners, infection, etc. Well, you don't think any of these things originated in Reach or H4 do you?

 

We're not asking you to make some ultra hard competitive game. We're asking for a Halo game. Something that isn't "hold your hand out of the box" type of game. Take Halo 2 and 3 for example. Both games that were casually fun for everyone out of the box, but also competitive for a different crowd with a few tweaks. These games were BALANCED. We can't balance your sprint game. You literally have a perfect formula sitting there waiting to be used again and it's just sitting there dying.

 

I really wish Sony would develop a game like the OG Halo trilogy so I could be done with Microsoft and all its bullshit once and for all.

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 We deliberately gave thruster a slight trade-off for shooting to balance it in combat. Since it's sudden and unpredictable (you don't know when I'm going to use it) we want to give the opposing player a split second to read the move and react. If you are skilled enough you can see your opponent begin to thrust, read the direction that he is moving in and adjust to make the headshot for the kill. The delay is very slight, but important for balance.

 

thruster is in the same category as jumping now, this a type of randomness that is good for the game because it comes from the players ability to out maneuver his opponent. The bad thing about this delay is that Players are basically being punished for being smart with thruster potentially, and rewarded for using it to run away. A player can kill a thrusting player, a thrusting player can't kill another player, adding the ability to shoot to thruster balances this out, but only if the person thrusting has good aim and can keep up with the sudden increase in speed. There's still a trade off if shooting is allowed, but the player can master that trade off, increasing the skill gap.
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  • Why is the Halo twitter so silent? There should be 2-3 tweets a day from the official twitter.

Not Josh's department. He develops and oversees the game, not the social media or PR

  • What is some feedback that you have gathered from Season 1 of the HCS? T2 is quoted as saying it is run very poorly from 343i's end and nobody would invest in it. Is this something that is likely to be addressed or something that 343i is aware of?

Also completely unrelated to the development of Halo 5. Not Josh's department. Page @@Bravo for this.

  • Ranking is coming soon is still in each playlist description in MCC. It's been over 100 days, are we going to wait another 100 or will updates pick up the pace now?

MCC, not Josh. Next update is in April and will most likely fix ranks. 

  • Why is individual performance taken into consideration at all in Halo 5 ranking system? I thought we went through this in Halo 4? Why are semi pro's matching both pro's and bronze players in the same match?

Individual Performance is NOT taken into consideration for CSR ratings. Strictly Win/Loss. I, personally, never experienced being matched with anyone more than 2 CSR Tiers above or below me, but Josh Menke also stated that the CSR system was a bit less strict in the beta to get as many matches in as possible for test data.

  • If you called up Eric Hewitt   :ghost: right now and asked him if sprint belongs in Halo, would he tell you yes or no?

:kappa:

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@Sal1ent @@Frankie

 

guyz.

 

plz.

 

GUYZ.

 

 

Terrain editing/lighting/weather in forge. Seriously, when is this going to happen. I know it's not a hardware issue but rather a matter of outfitting the engine to support it. Far Cry 2's map editor (360) ran with all the bells and whistles; time of day, water, terrain, texture editing, etc, wildlife.

 

Whether you're conforming it or denying it, a straight up answer would HUGE, even if it's explaining why it's not there. The less vague the better :)

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@@Sal1ent

 

On the topic of movement abilities, let's discuss clamber. With it's implementation in the beta, to clamber an obstacle you more or less have to be directly facing it. This brings up the issue that not only do I have my gun down during the traversal of this object, but I must also turn my back completely. I feel this penalizes players for attempting to use the new movement abilities while in combat.

 

Leaving aside the players inability to shoot during the movement for the moment. Would an increase in the angle at which you can clamber an object, something slightly greater than the fov for instance, be worth looking into? Essentially boosting the spartan over the feature sideways. I feel this would give players greater agency in their movement during a battle, and allow for greater awareness by players when not engaged.

 

This distinctly comes to mind when remembering that there are numerous map features that require clambering to navigate. A specific example that comes to mind would be the ledge on Empire/Eden (excuse how badly I mangle the callouts here but hopefully you get the idea) near sniper side on Eden that leads to 'outside'. Allowing for this sideways traversal allows players to either be facing red basement or bottom middle, lending to greater awareness of their surroundings and an effect similar to crouch jumping backwards/sideways in previous titles.

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