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Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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I'm relatively new to this forum specifically.  Took me a while to catch up on the last 15 pages or so but..

 

I honestly love the responses given by Lemon and Saucey earlier, very respectable. Shows you guys will at least stand up for something.  The rest of you are so adamant about so many of your opinions until a dev hops in and you immediately board his train. It's laughable, and it's hard for me to grant any of your posts merit when I see things like that. I like seeing people stand up for their beliefs. 

 

People need to stop saying this... Just because some of us disagree with Saucey/Lemon doesn't mean we "flipped" or are "boarding the train". If you can't take people having differing opinions don't participate in a forum where discussion is the main purpose. 

 

also I agree w/ your forge inquiries. would love that stuff for Halo 5

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 The rest of you are so adamant about so many of your opinions until a dev hops in and you immediately board his train. It's laughable, and it's hard for me to grant any of your posts merit when I see things like that. I like seeing people stand up for their beliefs. 

 

 

 

Good that you don't lump everyone together.

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Recent posts have convinced me that we'll get a much bigger BTB than we've ever had... pretty much the only "experience" that "needs" sprint. 

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People need to stop saying this... Just because some of us disagree with Saucey/Lemon doesn't mean we "flipped" or are "boarding the train". If you can't take people having differing opinions don't participate in a forum where discussion is the main purpose. 

 

also I agree w/ your forge inquiries. would love that stuff for Halo 5

That didn't apply to everyone, just a select few posters that I clearly remember having very different mindsets until Frankie came in. I'm always open to discussion:)

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There is no consistent opinion shared by everyone here on which Halo was the best and why.

 

Yes there is we all prefer a "actual" Halo game, sure we all can't agree on one but we sure can all agree Halo 4 was the worst but...

 

biz2-400x242.jpg

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i think josh cant comment on the entire scope of halo 5 in regards to sprint's reasoning of existing and the abilities because i guarantee it ties back to the sp story and thats something he most likely isnt allowed to discuss.

when you look at big picture, if we sprint and shoot water cannons in sp campaign then its assumed and expected we do the same in mp.

halo has always tried its best to blur the line between sp and mp, its and accessibility thing...abd immersion too.

real question here to josh, whats the likelihood of there being ranked matchmaking playlists with no sprint and no sparatan abilities? And to add to that, will the default maps be broken as a result of those mechanics being disabled?

id like to really understand this.

or playlists with only certain abilities, like just thrusters, no clamber playlists or no sprint and just abilities. Seriously a server browser would be godly.

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It's simply not feasible. Putting out constant alpha/beta builds isn't as easy and simplistic as you think it is on consoles... on PC its much different. If you don't get this, then there's nothing further to discuss here. MAYBE they can have a second beta, but it's still a hassle and is very time consuming. 

Nowhere in my response was I calling for constant builds. Hell look at Battlefield, they had a second beta for Hardline across every major platform recently. I was also not suggesting that these builds be as substantial as they have been. The need for putting out a near retail slice of the game is unnecessary and as you said, not feasible.

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See, today's discussion seems to be an entirely more reasonable affair.

 

By and large, I really agree with the majority of what @@Cursed Lemon says. The way you're framing your comments and arguments today, while firm and concrete, seems a lot more reasonable. 

 

This is what I hoped to see from us and 343: for us to be able to ask some questions, and have some of them answered from time to time. To be respectful of our opinions (which we are being), and get respectful responses in return. Seems like today's dialogue is s general step in the right direction.

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See, today's discussion seems to be an entirely more reasonable affair.

 

By and large, I really agree with the majority of what @@Cursed Lemon says. The way you're framing your comments and arguments today, while firm and concrete, seems a lot more reasonable. 

 

This is what I hoped to see from us and 343: for us to be able to ask some questions, and have some of them answered from time to time. To be respectful of our opinions (which we are being), and get respectful responses in return. Seems like today's dialogue is s general step in the right direction.

Agreed. 

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@@Sal1ent @@Frankie @@Deez

 

Things that would greatly help competitive community, without ruining other experiences:

 

1) Being able to shoot while thrusting would make it much more of an offensive tool.

 

2) A fast-killing utility weapon with a big skill gap. No flinch, recoil, or spread. I think the best candidate is the Magnum, just buff it's accuracy/range and make it a 4sk. It is much harder to use than BR or DMR, and these changes would make it a perfect weapon for competitive use. The reason "casuals" hate the BR is that almost anyone can get perfect kills with it, ruining lower level matches. Having AR + Skillful Pistol starts would be ideal, for all gametypes/playlists, including HCS. Leave lots of BRs on the map for the people who like them, same as Cov. Carbine. 

 

3) Scaling tool in forge. To effectively use the sprint toggle, default maps would have to be shrunk. Don't know how feasible this is, but would prevent a reliance on ugly forge maps. 

 

4) Tone down bullet magnetism for all weapons - especially sniper.

 

5) Increase ROF on Sniper to CE/H2 levels; Sprint makes 2sk kills impossible sometimes.

 

Thanks for posting guys. 

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@@Sal1ent @@Frankie @@Deez

 

Things that would greatly help competitive community, without ruining other experiences:

 

1) Being able to shoot while thrusting would make it much more of an offensive tool.

 

2) A fast-killing utility weapon with a big skill gap. No flinch, recoil, or spread. I think the best candidate is the Magnum, just buff it's accuracy/range and make it a 4sk. It is much harder to use than BR or DMR, and these changes would make it a perfect weapon for competitive use. The reason "casuals" hate the BR is that almost anyone can get perfect kills with it, ruining lower level matches. Having AR + Skillful Pistol starts would be ideal, for all gametypes/playlists, including HCS. Leave lots of BRs on the map for the people who like them, same as Cov. Carbine.

 

3) Scaling tool in forge. To effectively use the sprint toggle, default maps would have to be shrunk. Don't know how feasible this is, but would prevent a reliance on ugly forge maps.

 

4) Tone down bullet magnetism for all weapons - especially sniper.

 

5) Increase ROF on Sniper to CE/H2 levels; Sprint makes 2sk kills impossible sometimes.

 

Thanks for posting guys.

shooting while thrusting would make br battles crazy

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Yes. I'll have a lot to show in the next few months :)

Any other info you can provide? number of your team members, progress, screenshots, a website, anything?

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I’m not going to debate design decisions with the self proclaimed “Rush Limbaugh of Halo”.....What would that accomplish?

Giving hope to the competitive halo community which you care a lot about apparently?

 

If you really do care about halo's competitive side, why do none of the gameplay decisions reflect that? Why do the weapons take so long to kill? Why are individuals not empowered? Why are there so many defensive options in halo 5 (sprint, thruster)? Why do weapon indicators disappear when the item is picked up rather than when it spawns so that players are punished for doing something good by having their location given away to the enemy team?

 

The only aspect of competitive halo you seem to care about regards production and nothing else. The game, even after the changes outlined in your blog, is a competitive vegetable.

 

Why do you insist on having hardly any gap between good players and bad players in Halo?

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@@Sal1ent I can pretty much assure you that no one will care if sprint is present in casual playlists or an un-ranked version of the competitive ones, the problem is that you're building the game around sprint, that the game doesn't play good with or without it.

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By that logic, no one on TB should ever work on Halo because everyone here has different thoughts on the things that they love and hate about various entries in the franchise. There is no consistent opinion shared by everyone here on which Halo was the best and why. Likewise at 343, we have hundreds of people with differing opinions about specific aspects of Halo, past and present. A diversity of opinion is important in doing great work.

 

Yeah but I didn't mean that you should be a halo fan to make a halo game. Although obviously that is a plus. What you should do as game designers is recognise that Halo originally was an arena shooter game. Especially if you're going to use that as a slogan in the adverts despite what some other forumers have posted before, "Arena" is not subjective it is a type of shooter that's been established before and these types of shooters first and foremost put emphasis on movement and the ability to shoot at all times in the game play. So when given the task to carry the torch of halo's legacy, when planning the multiplayer portion of the game, first you should have recognized the type of shooter Halo was and how to improve on that type of shooter and not just change the genre of shooter that had built up an 11 million(?) more or less fanbase over the past decade. 

 

You don't squabble over the differences in each iteration of the games, that's for the fans to do. As game designers you should have sought to build from the ground an awesome actual arena shooter and then at least no matter what game you made as long as it had shield based gameplay, or not even, you would still have made an actual arena shooter because that's what all the ones before it were. Even Reach, the apologists will say h4 was all 343 had to go on. Was a class based arena shooter... I don't agree with your statement that a diversity of opinion is important doing great work. Or at least, not nearly as important as having clearly outlined goals/objectives and that the majority (I guess this is why we have leads. you see I'm no stranger to the collaborative creative process, I work on film sets part time and the structure of how the two work are very similar) - are focused on these objectives so that hundreds of creative peoples energies go into making a great product. I suspect your differing opinion is why 343 released the convoluted mess of a multi player that was Halo4's hybrid design philosophy and look set to do it again, all the while trying to convince us all; that our feedback matters.

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Halo has never been solely an Arena shooter. It's just that the arena-aspect has gone completely and it needs to return.

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Halo has never been solely an Arena shooter. It's just that the arena-aspect has gone completely and it needs to return.

 

 

CE was an arena shooter for consoles.

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CE was an arena shooter for consoles.

Aside from power weapons and equal starts, how exactly is CE an arena shooter?

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@@Sal1ent I can pretty much assure you that no one will care if sprint is present in casual playlists or an un-ranked version of the competitive ones, the problem is that you're building the game around sprint, that the game doesn't play good with or without it.

Are you sure? If I remember correctly a lot of people were upset with a sprint toggle because it wouldn't be the same over all playlists (and maps beeing made with sprint in mind, though for me maps were all right without sprint, spnt the last 2 weeks of beta without sprint)

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Are you sure? If I remember correctly a lot of people were upset with a sprint toggle because it wouldn't be the same over all playlists (and maps beeing made with sprint in mind, though for me maps were all right without sprint, spnt the last 2 weeks of beta without sprint)

That's because everything is designed around sprint and the new abilities: maps, cover, jump height, base speed, etc.. Why not make the game without sprint by default and add the ability to turn it on in customs?  Why please the people who'll leave when the next CoD arrives?

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Aside from power weapons and equal starts, how exactly is CE an arena shooter?

Weapons on map, no bloom, good vertical orientation, etc.

 

It's a mutant freak hybrid.

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That's because everything is designed around sprint and the new abilities: maps, cover, jump height, base speed, etc.. Why not make the game without sprint by default and add the ability to turn it on in customs?  Why please the people who'll leave when the next CoD arrives?

I think it's unfair to assume a 1:1 relationship between people who liked sprint in Halo 5 and those that will leave for the next CoD. 

 

Also, I've said this many times before. I really think with a base speed increase/strafe speed increase Halo 5 will play fine. Maps weren't that big and they'll play just fine without sprint. 

 

IMO, of course. I really think we should wait to see how it plays w/o sprint and with the new movement changes. I think it'll be fine. 

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