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Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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That's not an evasion, that's the real answer. And we don't know exactly what the launch playlists will be. However, E3 and beyond will give you more insight.

 

Permission to take this out of context?

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But don't you think having two extremely different styles may actually ruin the experience? Matchmaking having bunch of playlists with Sprint/Other Abilities, while Custom Games have the classic-sprintless settings? Or the games being divided by Ranked/Social playlists with radical changes rather than just turning on or off a radar?

Exactly like Reach.

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I know that this is a pretty old-school conservative Halo forum, and nobody is more old school and conservative than me (I am a BK tho) but the skill gap is going to end up being massive, IMO. In my opinion. My opinion is: That when really good players (imagine motion tracker is off) master the maps and the new mobility, it's actually going to increase the skill gap (kind of like when counters arrived in fighting game, which increased complexity and the matrix of moves available in any given situation). Now that may not satisfy folks who want say, a Halo 3 amount of movement, but it's hard to argue that there won't be folks who're amazing at movement and shooting, verticality playing a larger and larger role.

 

It'll certainly shake stuff up.

 

And now that Sprint is toggle-able, there may end up being two radically different styles of player. And that's OK.

 

In my opinion.

 

If the HCS settings in Halo 5 are not going to take advantage of toggling sprint off, then it is a worthless addition to the game from a competitive standpoint.  These guys should be playing the most competitive settings possible for big money, but I am afraid that promoting an "out of the box" experience to sell copies will overshadow using the best settings.  

 

 

That is why the toggle came as disappointing news for a majority of the community. Most people feel like it will not matter or be utilized, and I have to say I share the same skepticism. 

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I know that this is a pretty old-school conservative Halo forum, and nobody is more old school and conservative than me (I am a BK tho) but the skill gap is going to end up being massive, IMO. In my opinion. My opinion is: That when really good players (imagine motion tracker is off) master the maps and the new mobility, it's actually going to increase the skill gap (kind of like when counters arrived in fighting game, which increased complexity and the matrix of moves available in any given situation). Now that may not satisfy folks who want say, a Halo 3 amount of movement, but it's hard to argue that there won't be folks who're amazing at movement and shooting, verticality playing a larger and larger role.

 

It'll certainly shake stuff up.

 

And now that Sprint is toggle-able, there may end up being two radically different styles of player. And that's OK.

 

In my opinion.

I know it's really early, but when the time comes i hope you guys will go for a competitive playlist without sprint and with increased movement speed.

I understand that it's a central mechanic, and that you guys want to promote your version of H5, but as we've already seen, first impressions can make or break the game population wise. 

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If the HCS settings in Halo 5 are not going to take advantage of toggling sprint off, then it is a worthless addition to the game from a competitive standpoint.  These guys should be playing the most competitive settings possible for big money, but I am afraid that promoting an "out of the box" experience to sell copies will overshadow using the best settings.  

 

 

That is why the toggle came as disappointing news for a majority of the community. Most people feel like it will not matter or be utilized, and I have to say I share the same skepticism. 

 

Not responding directly at Saucey here, but I'll say what I've been saying since the Beta changes announcement.

 

Toggling Sprint off for the HCS only is the right choice, we should fight for it. The question is whether 343 will comply. Maintaining default map layouts, weapons/sandbox, abilities are all better ways to avoid 'fragmenting communities/players'. Toggling off one ability that will drastically improve the game is only going to improve the competitive experience.

 

In Halo 3 we gutted the maps, removed radar, eradicated the sandbox (albeit not a good one), increased movement speed, increased weapon damage, and if I remember correctly we even altered gravity traits. 

 

Competitive Reach and Halo 4 ended up being completely opposite from their launch experience. No bloom, no sprint (Reach), altered weapon layouts, Forge maps, etc.

 

Now that we have this fairly competitive game by default, toggling Sprint pales in comparison to the changes that have been accepted in the past by Bungie and 343.

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population eh? we will see the return of an in-game pop counter for H5?, not playlist wise but total pop. ( I need to know the numbers Frankie). 

deadhorse.jpg

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I know that this is a pretty old-school conservative Halo forum, and nobody is more old school and conservative than me (I am a BK tho) but the skill gap is going to end up being massive, IMO. In my opinion. My opinion is: That when really good players (imagine motion tracker is off) master the maps and the new mobility, it's actually going to increase the skill gap (kind of like when counters arrived in fighting game, which increased complexity and the matrix of moves available in any given situation). Now that may not satisfy folks who want say, a Halo 3 amount of movement, but it's hard to argue that there won't be folks who're amazing at movement and shooting, verticality playing a larger and larger role.

 

It'll certainly shake stuff up.

 

And now that Sprint is toggle-able, there may end up being two radically different styles of player. And that's OK.

 

In my opinion.

I'm glad that this forum is being paid attention to. I'm glad you bring up points for the mobility because up until now, we have not seen a single reason for them to be there. Thank you for the insight!

 

I'd like to direct your attention to League of Legends for just a moment. I know the games can't be compared well, but the competitive scene can be. The game that the casuals play online, that the pros play online, the the amateurs grind in ranked, and that the pros play at tournaments in LAN, is the EXACT same game. I'm all for no sprint, but I think adding toggles is a step back. Ask APK, one of the biggest forgers, he will tell you forge splits the community and so does toggles. The last week of the beta should have been (or could be if there is another) a full week of no mobility except classic options. Then you would find out how it plays esp with increased base movespeed. The only difference from casual to ranked/pro scene should be radar or no radar. To add onto that, the abilities aren't offensive at all. Please allow us to shoot while sprinting and while thrusting and sliding. Thoughts?

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I know that this is a pretty old-school conservative Halo forum, and nobody is more old school and conservative than me (I am a BK tho) but the skill gap is going to end up being massive, IMO. In my opinion. My opinion is: That when really good players (imagine motion tracker is off) master the maps and the new mobility, it's actually going to increase the skill gap (kind of like when counters arrived in fighting game, which increased complexity and the matrix of moves available in any given situation). Now that may not satisfy folks who want say, a Halo 3 amount of movement, but it's hard to argue that there won't be folks who're amazing at movement and shooting, verticality playing a larger and larger role.

 

It'll certainly shake stuff up.

 

And now that Sprint is toggle-able, there may end up being two radically different styles of player. And that's OK.

 

In my opinion.

 

If the abilities were at all offensive, this might be true (think BLB or hell, even BxR). But thruster and sprint are always going to slow down gameplay when kill times are so long. Motion tracker being off won't affect this much because sprint and thruster become problems in individual battles where motion tracker is irrelevant (i.e. battles where players are both engaging each other). Sprint and thruster allow people to disengage too easily, as we've seen in Reach and H4. Unless the best possible BR kill times start to mirror h1 kill times, it is extremely difficult to imagine defensive abilities widening the skill gap. I'm hopeful, but doubtful. 

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Adding sprint and more abilities does not increase the gap..

I mean, it totally can if you think about it

 

The question is will it however

 

Strafing and dodging in battle > using sprint to run away and as a get out of jail free card

 

I don't think sprint adds anything to halos fighting but some of these other abilities might

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@@Frankie Its really cool to see the director of 343 active on the Beyond Forums, keep it up! I would reccomend Mister Cheif as your avatar. ;)

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I wonder if they've tested the recommendation of shooting while thrusting. If executed properly, I think that it could really add to the game in close range encounters.

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Honestly Frankie, we just want a game that has a high skill gap.

 

 

Nah, I want a Halo game with a high skill gap. (protip: A Halo game doesn't have sprint in it)

 

Now that may not satisfy folks who want say, a Halo 3 amount of movement

 

(Nobody wants a Halo 3 amount of movement)

 

I really appreciate that you're here talking to us. One of our biggest complaints is that nobody ever tells us why you do anything at 343 (like including some features, scrapping others etc.) other than marketing talk.

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I ignored the Halo 3 movement statement, lol. That's just ridiculous. MLG had to adjust the speed up to 110% because of how clunky and slow that game was.

I miss the smooth feel of running around at a perfect pace in H1 and H2. (Think top control in Prisoner 2v2/Dodging grenades in Midship FFAs)

The better your competitive settings, the more popular your playlists and game. Simple.

 

Appeasing Call of Duty, Battlefield, Titanfall, Gears of War and Destiny players will not help Halo grow or flourish...

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I know that this is a pretty old-school conservative Halo forum, and nobody is more old school and conservative than me (I am a BK tho) but the skill gap is going to end up being massive, IMO. In my opinion. My opinion is: That when really good players (imagine motion tracker is off) master the maps and the new mobility, it's actually going to increase the skill gap (kind of like when counters arrived in fighting game, which increased complexity and the matrix of moves available in any given situation). Now that may not satisfy folks who want say, a Halo 3 amount of movement, but it's hard to argue that there won't be folks who're amazing at movement and shooting, verticality playing a larger and larger role.

 

It'll certainly shake stuff up.

 

And now that Sprint is toggle-able, there may end up being two radically different styles of player. And that's OK.

 

In my opinion.

 

I love you and Hate you at the same time... <3

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nobody is more old school and conservative than me

 

Can confirm. So old school in fact, that he was doing reviews of Doom on Gamesmaster when i was 8.

 

 

halo_bang.jpg

 

Imma need to check this out, srs.

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Halo 3:

 

  • Radar disabled
  • Overshield removed (Custom Powerup instead)
  • Every map edited and modified (Weapons/Layout/Structure)
  • Movement speed increase
  • Damage increase
  • Equipment removed
  • BR Starts
  • Non-dev made Forge Maps
  • DLC Used (Midship)
  • CTF, KoTH, Oddball all modified

Reach:

 

  • Countless Forge maps added (Sanctuary, Element, Nexus, and much more)
  • DMR Starts
  • No Radar
  • Sandbox stripped
  • Zealot and Countdown heavily modified each iteration
  • Armor Abilities stripped down and placed on map
  • Movement Speed Increase
  • No Bloom
  • No Sprint
  • Powerups Added
  • CTF and KoTH modified

Halo 4:

  • Forge maps used (Dispatch, Station 9, Simplex, Onyx)
  • Personal Ordnance Nerfed (AA's)
  • Random Ordnances removed 
  • BR Starts
  • No Radar
  • Loadouts removed
  • Movement Speed Increase
  • Weapon Layouts modified
  • DLC Used (Skyline)
  • Capture the Flag and Extraction modified

so let's talk Halo 5, which has a moderately well designed sandbox, decent competitive maps, and toggleable abilities.

 

Halo 5:

 

  • Sprint disabled
  • Radar disabled
  • BR Starts
  • Possible movement speed increase to compensate for NS
  • Possible gametype modifications (CTF, EXT, etc.)
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I, in all seriousness, wouldn't be as upset with sprint if it didn't mess with the way maps are being presented to us. 

I miss the old maps with good sight lines, no choke up points, no random scramble to find battles to engage.

Sure we still have the get aways that sprint introduces, but I can look past that.

 

Nah. Put sprint in halo 1-3 and it will ruin those games. No matter how good the map is the cancer of sprint will still be present to break things. There is no looking past sprint, it simply doesn't work for Halo.

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I ignored the Halo 3 movement statement, lol. That's just ridiculous. MLG had to adjust the speed up to 110% because of how clunky and slow that game was.

 

I miss the smooth feel of running around at a perfect pace in H1 and H2. (Think top control in Prisoner 2v2/Dodging grenades in Midship FFAs)

 

The better your competitive settings, the more popular your playlists and game. Simple.

 

Appeasing Call of Duty, Battlefield, Titanfall, Gears of War and Destiny players will not help Halo grow or flourish...

 

 

So I hate to say this, but I said H3 for a reason. in this very thread, somebody posted an image about the success of H3 and its beta as a counterpoint to any changes (changes that happen naturally as a result of evolving tastes, market realities and creative challenge and so you don't just keep releasing Halo CE maps for 13 years). MLG did adjust the speed to 110%. Because we put that option in the code. And it was a much-beloved, but low-ish-population hopper (which I noticed wasn't reflected in the chart) and we continued to support it and its users because we believed (and from a pro/competitive standpoint, continue to believe - in some of their choices and vision.) There's no money or business or corporate interest in that.  Ya think MS corporate is asking me to "appease" TeamBeyond?

 

 

I'm here because I value and appreciate all aspects of the Halo community - including "Bad Kids" - an expression in itself which is delusional and misappropriated. Including this one. So I'm here to listen and take note, but I'm not here to conform to your POV  - Josh is - absent or not - a huge cheerleader of this community, because he understands that (in terms of skill and yearning cor competitive Halo) this place is one of the tips of the spear and while the population is small, the opinion is telling and informative.

 

 

That doesn't mean we're here to make the precise game "you" (and there is no "you," and there isn't even full consensus on anything) are asking for, we're here to make sure that every corner of the Halo community - including bits you HATE - are heard and where possible, accommodated. You guys already wield a disproportionately large sword, so you should appreciate that and swing it at the right times and places.

 

Come at me. I'm here all week. 'Cept when I'm busy.

 

But don't pretend you're being ignored. And don't pretend you're the one true audience.

 

 

Luckily for you I'm not a designer or everything would be SWAT. Maybe with vehicles.

 

EDIT: Also "quote" doesn't work in Chrome or IE. Ain't nobody got time for that.

 

Gotta fiddle with the return key a few times before you can type below the quote box. 

 

Not asking for a definitive answer. I don't even expect one. Would the idea of No Sprint for the HCS be entertained, considering the rest of the game remains for the most part, untouched? "No comment at this time" or "It'll be in the discussion" would be enough to quench our (my) thirst.

 

@@Sal1ent

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